Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)

[Spymaster]

I am kind of going to stand up for Ronnyboy here actually. There are a lot of people who are pretty much on the margins just scraping by with their knackered old vehicles who are suddenly going to have to find thousands from somewhere or go under.

I don't disagree with the ULEZ but I think the shit is going to hit the fan to an extent when people realise.

What fucked Ronnie was the trannies stuff.

I don’t see why any businesses should be going under because of this. There’s been loads of time to prepare for it and it’s not like compliant vehicles have to cost a fortune. Pretty much all petrol motors less than 12 years old are unaffected and you can pick one of those up for a few quid.

And it’s £12.50 a week for a year or two isn’t it? If that puts anyone out of business they probably wouldn’t have lasted much longer anyway.

 

[RubyToogood]

What fucked Ronnie was the trannies stuff.

I don’t see why any businesses should be going under because of this. There’s been loads of time to prepare for it and it’s not like compliant vehicles have to cost a fortune. Pretty much all petrol motors less than 12 years old are unaffected and you can pick one of those up for a few quid.

And it’s £12.50 a week for a year or two isn’t it? If that puts anyone out of business they probably wouldn’t have lasted much longer anyway.

I don't know where the £12.50 a week thing is coming from. I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it.

 

[Spymaster]

I don't know where the £12.50 a week thing is coming from. I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it.

I may have misread something. I'll have a look later. My understanding was that the ULEZ daily charge only applies within the congestion charge zone until 2021, after which it's expanded to the wider area. I recall something about a £12.50 weekly charge between now and 2021 in the wider area but checking now I may have been mistaken. Anyway, the ULEZ only affects those who want to drive in the C zone until 2021.

 

[colacubes]

I may have misread something. I'll have a look later. My understanding was that the ULEZ daily charge only applies within the congestion charge zone until 2021, after which it's expanded to the wider area. I recall something about a £12.50 weekly charge between now and 2021 in the wider area but checking now I may have been mistaken. Anyway, the ULEZ only affects those who want to drive in the C zone until 2021.

£12.50 a day. Not a week. Plus C charge on top when that applies.

Cars

 

[Spymaster]

£12.50 a day. Not a week. Plus C charge on top when that applies.

Cars

As I said, until October 2021 it only applies to vehicles driving into the current (quite small) congestion charge zone. If you don't drive into the C zone you can forget about the ULEZ until then. That's still another 2 and a half years before it's extended to the north and south circular boundaries. So 2.5 years for people like Ronnie to sort their motors out. If you can't manage that, you probably shouldn't be running a business.

 

[Pickman's model]

As I said, until October 2021 it only applies to vehicles driving into the current (quite small) congestion charge zone. If you don't drive into the C zone you can forget about the ULEZ until then. That's still another 2 and a half years before it's extended to the north and south circular boundaries. So 2.5 years for people like Ronnie to sort their motors out. If you can't manage that, you probably shouldn't be running a business.

As any accountant will tell you, most business owners shouldn't be running a business

 

[joustmaster]

I'm talking to lots of people who have no idea about this.

It's going to kick right fucking off in a couple of months.

 

[Dogsauce]

Lots of cheap diesel vans for the rest of the country though

 

[T & P]

I received a letter from TFL yesterday warning me that my 56-reg 50cc scooter is not compliant and I would be liable for the daily charge come April.

I don’t mind upgrading my bike to a newer, cleaner model but I am having a bit of trouble believing my paltry 50cc engine tiny scooter is more polluting that our work’s van, which is 5 years older still and has a 1300cc petrol engine and, incredibly, is actually exempt from the charge.

A 2006 50cc engine more polluting than a 2001 1300cc engine? Really?

 

[joustmaster]

I received a letter from TFL yesterday warning me that my 56-reg 50cc scooter is not compliant and I would be liable for the daily charge come April.

I don’t mind upgrading my bike to a newer, cleaner model but I am having a bit of trouble believing my paltry 50cc engine tiny scooter is more polluting that our work’s van, which is 5 years older still and has a 1300cc petrol engine and, incredibly, is actually exempt from the charge.

A 2006 50cc engine more polluting than a 2001 1300cc engine? Really?

Motorcycles Pollute More Than SUVs
Interesting stuff.

 

[T & P]

Motorcycles Pollute More Than SUVs
Interesting stuff.

Wow. I guess it makes sense that bike engines (certainly small cc ones like mine) are too small to be fitted with catalytic converters and similar pollution curbing devices.

 

[teuchter]

They are a bit of a disaster noise pollution wise too.

 

[David Clapson]

I have a theory that many of the flash cars seen in Brixton are funded by people cashing in on gentrification by selling local property and moving further out to South Norwood/Crystal Palace etc. They're going to have a helluva shock when they find out that it will cost £12.50 every time they cross the South Circular. But they can probably afford it. The ones who got six figure profits from their house will easily swallow the massive depreciation on their Mercedes/Range Rover and just buy the electric model. And maybe then the air will be safe to breathe.

 

[Teaboy]

I have a theory that many of the flash cars seen in Brixton are funded by people cashing in on gentrification by selling local property and moving further out to South Norwood/Crystal Palace etc. They're going to have a helluva shock when they find out that it will cost £12.50 every time they cross the South Circular. But they can probably afford it. The ones who got six figure profits from their house will easily swallow the massive depreciation on their Mercedes/Range Rover and just buy the electric model. And maybe then the air will be safe to breathe.

If they are modern flash cars they'll probably be exempt. I have a 2017 diesel and its exempt.

 

[David Clapson]

They are a bit of a disaster noise pollution wise too.

The loud ones typically have an illegal exhaust, bought just for the noise. And because their insurance has a condition that their vehicle must be roadworthy, they don't notify their insurer. So their cover is reduced. And when they blip the throttle unnecessarily they are also guilty of anti-social use of a motor vehicle and their bike can be seized. But I doubt the police have the resources to enforce any of these laws more than once in a thousand years.

 

[nick]

I have a theory that many of the flash cars seen in Brixton are funded by people cashing in on gentrification by selling local property and moving further out to South Norwood/Crystal Palace etc. They're going to have a helluva shock when they find out that it will cost £12.50 every time they cross the South Circular. But they can probably afford it. The ones who got six figure profits from their house will easily swallow the massive depreciation on their Mercedes/Range Rover and just buy the electric model. And maybe then the air will be safe to breathe.

Also a distinct possibility that the flash motors aren't owned but are rented on a PCP scheme - so it could well be that they can't afford it but were seduced by apparently low monthly costs, and ignored the overall cost and APRs. A quick google of "PCP scandal" tells me that in 2017 UK banks' total exposure to car finance was £20Bn - which is about 600,000 cars @ £33k each. Once the tide goes out on used car prices (perhaps because of Brexit or the ULEZ), expect pain.

 

[David Clapson]

Yes...I remember a while ago someone was forecasting that mass defaults on car finance could cause a recession.

 

[T & P]

Does anyone know how to check if a vehicle is exempt by make and model? It’s all very well to check by number plate, but I am now researching what bike to buy as a replacement and don’t want to waste time considering models that will not be exempt.

 

[teuchter]

Get a pedal bike

 

[hash tag]

Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) – everything you need to know | Motoring Research

London ULEZ – which vehicles are affected?
Only petrol cars of or above Euro 4 emissions standard, and diesel cars of or above Euro 6 emissions standard, are exempt from paying the ULEZ charge of £12.50 per day. It also applies to vans, minibuses, coaches, lorries and other heavy vehicles. For motorbikes, it’s Euro 3 or above that is exempt.

Euro 4 became mandatory for all new cars in 2005, while Euro 6 was introduced for all cars and light vans from September 2015 (January 2014 for larger vehicles). Euro 3 came into effect for bikes in 2007.

Some drivers can take comfort from the fact that many older petrol-powered cars will be exempt. Diesel, as ever these days, is having a tough time of it: much newer diesel cars are obliged to pay the ULEZ.

 

[nyxx]

I noticed something about ULEZ being introduced in birmingham as well, wondering how many other places anyone seen a central source of info on where else to expect this?
I guess a lot of it may still be in flux tho.

 

[cybershot]

The Birmingham clean air zone is a local council decision due to constant warnings to reduce its gases in the city centre or start getting fines.

 

[nyxx]

I was planning ahead for the 2021 London ULEZ but it makes sense for other cities to have the same restrictions.

 

[cybershot]

It's ULEZ go live day

London drivers to face new ultra low emission zone from today - check if you'll pay £12.50/day

 

[teuchter]

Happy ULEZ day everyone

 

[Pickman's model]

Happy ULEZ day everyone

bet you're wandering the streets of loughborough junction shouting that at everyone you meet - 'happy you les day'

 

[Winot]

“NO2 has fallen from 85 to 57 micrograms per cubic metre at the roadside in central London since October 2017, when Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, introduced a £10 daily toxicity charge.”

From here (free registration needed):
Diesel pollution charge has cut London’s toxic fumes by a third

 

[hash tag]

When I saw this thread back up, I expected to see this, which I heard on the news earlier - shocking Spikes in air pollution can quickly lead to casualties, new research finds

The risk was found to be greatest in London, where high pollution days cause an extra 87 cardiac arrests on average, an extra 144 strokes as well as 74 children and 33 adults hospitalised for asthma.

 

[alex_]

“NO2 has fallen from 85 to 57 micrograms per cubic metre at the roadside in central London since October 2017, when Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, introduced a £10 daily toxicity charge.”

From here (free registration needed):
Diesel pollution charge has cut London’s toxic fumes by a third

that’s pretty good - from over 2x the limit (40mg m3 )

with ulez expansion to go.

 

[teuchter]

Annoying that those of us living in zone 2 have to wait another two years to see similar benefits.