Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
And?
ULEZ camera cutters
- Thread starter Rob Ray
- Start date
editor
hiraethified
Not sure how many people here advocate smashing cameras up that are designed to cut pollution as 'community action'. Perhaps you could give some examples?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I mean it's action by a community, of sorts, or at least by a mobilised group within a community, but I'm not sure why this is supposed to matter. Like if the point is that lefties and right-wingers take different perspectives on what constitutes justifiable rule-breaking then "well duh" comes to mind. It's slightly more egregious on the part of the right given their usual spiel about being the defenders of law and order but otherwise ...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
the friekorp were a community, taking action, therefor we must back the friekorp. Imagine roy baty breaking harrison fords fingers, forever.
editor
hiraethified
And then there's this Tory twat
road.cc
road.cc
Pimlico Plumbers founder Charlie Mullins suspended from Twitter after posting that “someone should kill” Sadiq Khan over ULEZ
The businessman, known for his staunch anti-cycling stance, also posted that “it’s time to dump the Muslim mayor”
Video: Pimlico Plumbers appeal to catch cycling ‘criminal’ – but get accused of faking footage
Footage allegedly shows Santander Cycle user kicking founder Charlie Mullins' Bentley, but some believe the incident was staged
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Not sure how much of the demands were contradictory exactly, but yes different things for sure, although I guess many could be grouped under a similar umbrella of anger with the State/government. I mean that's another difference with the ULEZ stuff too, that this is very small and with a single focus.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I know there's a thread about the ULEZ more generally:
Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)
Tell you what. I bet he doesn't catch either the 249 or 319 to get to work from there 🙄www.urban75.net
But might be worth having one specifically on the people cutting cameras down as it's an interesting phenomenon in itself. Claiming the hilariously cringe sobriquet of "blade runners" it seems to be getting quite popular among a section of the public that I suspect would have a lot of crossover with the "I'd just run em over" set.
even more cringingly, some of the anti-Ulez people called their recent mass action 'the night of the long knives' (see Action Against Unfair ULEZ CAZ & LTN | Facebook).
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
sure most people support it. in 2014 86% supported it. but 80% of respondents said they didn't receive enough information on cctv. which rather suggests that cctv cameras are supported largely by people who don't know too much about it. as for its location, what sort of areas do you believe need it? and what evidence do you have that most of it tends to be in areas that need it?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yeah. But you eat parsley.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Less cringe and more like "what the actual fuck were they thinking"?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
maybe they used the night to purge their ranks of lingering strasserite tendencies? Who can say
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
I would imagine no one here has advocated it, however the number of people doing this probably outnumber U75 by a good margin. Are you suggesting that they are not part of their community?
So you're happy to admit they are just criminals then?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
No-one's "just" a criminal and "community" is a super-vague word if you're trying to use it to define something like this. It's certainly "direct" action, it's unclear how embedded they are in a broader sense of feeling and support, tacit or active, amongst people in the location where it's taking place.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
being a criminal by itself doesn't mean being in the wrong. criminality can happen to anyone, just like treading in dogshit. i imagine a fair proportion of urbs have criminal records. but that doesn't make them 'just criminals'. i expect you've broken a range of laws in the past, whether speeding or something which might have attracted a larger sentence. so has pretty much everyone here, even if they haven't been caught, whether it's drug laws or public order or whatnot. 'just criminals' has something of the daily mail about it.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
A group of people living in a specific area with some or more common characteristics. I suspect in the context used most on U75 it s taken to mean the rather 'ill-defined' working class which will certainly include the camera choppers, I rather doubt they're a group of millionaires doing it for shit and giggles.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
None of them have been caught so their economic (and indeed geographic) situation is entirely unknown atm. They could be the sons and daughters of blue collar workers who feel their very existence is at threat, or they could be salary men who've read a few too many echo-chamber rants and are looking for a bit of drama to liven up their tedious suburban existence. They could even be a bunch of kooks driving in from all over. We know most of the complaining has been coming from the right so their politics probably draw from there, but otherwise it's speculation.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
There are criminals with a justification that extends beyond themselves. Then there are criminals who are just very cross about being asked to pay small fee for the right to poison the growing lungs of small children.
editor
hiraethified
What community exactly? It could be a very small band of roaming vandals for all you know.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
I know there's a thread about the ULEZ more generally:
Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)
Tell you what. I bet he doesn't catch either the 249 or 319 to get to work from there 🙄
But might be worth having one specifically on the people cutting cameras down as it's an interesting phenomenon in itself. Claiming the hilariously cringe sobriquet of "blade runners" it seems to be getting quite popular among a section of the public that I suspect would have a lot of crossover with the "I'd just run em over" set.
Also known online as "the would of people"?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I’ve learnt the hard way that it’s best not to make assumptions on here tbh . Broad church .
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
We know you don't support it, otherwise you'd be recommending tactical nukes for them.
ska invita
back on the other side
My parents live on the edge of the ulez zone in a broadly petit booj area. Their local WhatsApp group, usually sedate, has kicked off over this. My parents are taking the 2k to scrap their car.
At the bottom of their road will be a camera, the sign has gone up and there's a connected black box, which keeps getting vandalised.
According to the WhatsApp group there are angry people affected but also definitely others piling in with ...ahem...."other talking points".
I think this will carry on for a good while yet, but it's a losing battle overall. I can't see ULEZ being revoked or sufficient cameras destroyed to make the scheme inoperable.
I support ULEZ but 2k is low for scrappage as some vehicles worth a lot more... That said you can still sell them privately for more further afield. As with most social problems the real solutions involve targeting the richest.
I also don't have a problem with the vandals here... It would be hypocritical of me to ... This is effectively a tax revolt, and the history of that kind of non violent resistance is long.
Coming climate change state restrictions will no doubt impact the less well off far more than the rich who will largely go about their business as usual.
I also think there might yet be a wider anti camera implication here. The state surveillance in China is a very possible end goal for the British state, and much of the politics underpinning this ULEZ revolt thing has an ever growing right wing libertarian flavour which might yet translate to other state surveillance things. As with the yellow vests it's important the left is fully involved at that point.
At the bottom of their road will be a camera, the sign has gone up and there's a connected black box, which keeps getting vandalised.
According to the WhatsApp group there are angry people affected but also definitely others piling in with ...ahem...."other talking points".I think this will carry on for a good while yet, but it's a losing battle overall. I can't see ULEZ being revoked or sufficient cameras destroyed to make the scheme inoperable.
I support ULEZ but 2k is low for scrappage as some vehicles worth a lot more... That said you can still sell them privately for more further afield. As with most social problems the real solutions involve targeting the richest.
I also don't have a problem with the vandals here... It would be hypocritical of me to ... This is effectively a tax revolt, and the history of that kind of non violent resistance is long.
Coming climate change state restrictions will no doubt impact the less well off far more than the rich who will largely go about their business as usual.
I also think there might yet be a wider anti camera implication here. The state surveillance in China is a very possible end goal for the British state, and much of the politics underpinning this ULEZ revolt thing has an ever growing right wing libertarian flavour which might yet translate to other state surveillance things. As with the yellow vests it's important the left is fully involved at that point.
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ska invita
back on the other side
Contradictions like that may be annoying to us, but that's life, people are full of contradictory political positions
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Very possibly. I suspect next time there's riots some of the more situationally aware participants will target cctv cameras after what happened in 2011 plus the ulez protesters getting surveillance bumped up the news agenda
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I don't think it's a contradictory position at all. Smashing up ULEZ infrastructure and demanding that JSO protestors be summarily shot both come from the same place, a place of 'I should be able to do whatever I want all the time'.