Travelling from the UK to the USA with a criminal record

[Dinosaur]

I see! Sorry I thought people had experience here. I'm really unsure what to do to be honest

From what you've said about your conviction/caution, If you follow the rules you need to apply for a tourist visa - no exceptions.

However, I read that CBP are currently reviewing applications from UK citizens with cautions, because they're unsure how to treat them, (it's not technically a conviction, but you are basically admitting to committing a crime) this is resulting in severe delays for people with cautions making visa applications (I've heard as long as a year)

You have two choices;

Apply for a VISA - wait as long as a year and probably get denied (recent caution for fraud with previous convictions, all CIMT)

Tick "NO" to the ESTA online form, (I almost guarantee it'll come back as approved) put on your poker face and go through customs, unless there's more to your history, or something you're not telling us - I'm 99% sure you'd get through. (I know people who've done serious jail time who walk through on a regular basis..)


Also, bear in mind - if you apply for a VISA and it's denied, then there's no chance of an ESTA (it'll auto-deny you based on your passport number/name/DOB)


*Bear in mind, if you tick "NO" and in the unlikely event you're found out - prepare to bear the consequences*

 

[pogofish]

*Bear in mind, if you tick "NO" and in the unlikely event you're found out - prepare to bear the consequences*

A wasted effort I'm afraid - That poster chickened-out some weeks ago and went for a visa application after "OBEY!" faction on another board convinced them to.

 

[Dinosaur]

rip

Cautions really are a total nightmare,

When I got busted (for defending myself from an attacker) I got told "Oh - you should just accept a caution, it'll be gone in 5 years and unless you want to work with children, it isn't a problem)

The ****** solicitor never said anything like "oh, btw... you'll struggle to go on holiday to an annoying amount of destinations, oh... and btw - nothing disappears from your *record* at all, it stays on the PNC until you're 80 years old"

The rehabilitation of offenders act, is the biggest waste of time, it means absolutely nothing - I've filled out no end of CRB forms (for my job) and they all say "you must disclose all cautions/convictions, even if they're stepped down" wtf is the point, it's just bollocks.

 

[loumm79]

I almost cracked today and went visa route but my partner is refusing to give them his info. Clock is ticking we dont have time for visas now. But I will come back and tell my tail of joy/sorrow.

 

[pogofish]

When I got busted (for defending myself from an attacker) I got told "Oh - you should just accept a caution, it'll be gone in 5 years and unless you want to work with children, it isn't a problem)

Yup - I was in a very similar position some years back and refused as well. The charges evaporated rapidly, despite the police being so emphatic that taking a caution was the "easiest" option for me.

 

[Dinosaur]

I almost cracked today and went visa route but my partner is refusing to give them his info. Clock is ticking we dont have time for visas now. But I will come back and tell my tail of joy/sorrow.

Unless you're a terrorist, have some insane history of people/drug trafficking , or are a known threat to society, simply apply for an ESTA - tick no all the BS questions, watch the "AUTHORTISATION APPROVED" message come in, and go on your trip,

The chances of them finding out are so small I wouldn't lose much sleep over it..

 

[uk benzo]

rip

Cautions really are a total nightmare,

When I got busted (for defending myself from an attacker) I got told "Oh - you should just accept a caution, it'll be gone in 5 years and unless you want to work with children, it isn't a problem)

The ****** solicitor never said anything like "oh, btw... you'll struggle to go on holiday to an annoying amount of destinations, oh... and btw - nothing disappears from your *record* at all, it stays on the PNC until you're 80 years old"

The rehabilitation of offenders act, is the biggest waste of time, it means absolutely nothing - I've filled out no end of CRB forms (for my job) and they all say "you must disclose all cautions/convictions, even if they're stepped down" wtf is the point, it's just bollocks.

You say that, but I was cautioned in 1996 when I was a very young adult. Fast forward to 2013- I was required to submit an enhanced DBS application for a job that I had applied for. I shat my pants. I got the enhanced DBS certificate back with "Police records of convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings: None recorded", which was a massive relief. Although the caution would probably come up if I had applied for a job at the MI5 or something similar.

From my understanding, I think the Metropolitan police force 'weeded' (deleted) cautions from there system that were deemed relatively inoffensive, for example non-violent offenses, and were 5 years or older pre-Soham murder case (2002). Following the murders, they became a lot more stringent with their criteria and i think they stopped weeding completely in 2006. So basically, if you were cautioned by the met pre-1997, there is a strong chance that the caution was weeded.

 

[Onket]

I got a caution in about 1991 (not the Met) and it's never shown up during subsequent arrests, nor on any CRB checks.

 

[wiskey]

i have MPS cautions from 99-01 which don't show up on DBS checks.

 

[Sarah Haywood]

Ok I just wanted to share my own experience on travelling to the US with a criminal record.

Both myself and my partner have recently returned from a fantastic 2 week holiday in Florida, my partner does have a criminal record for CIMT from 13 years ago ( I won't go into detail as it isn't really anybodys business).

After reading all the forums online we decided to tick no on the Esta as the general consensus is that they have no 'instant' access to our UK PNC.

The weeks leading up to the holiday were worrying and I just kept thinking the worst was going to happen, the flight felt even longer and by the time plane landed in Sanford I was a bag of nerves!!

We waited in line at immigration for what seemed like an eternity, on going up to the immigration desk we did have an immigration officer from hell who neither smiled or made eye contact with us. He slowly went through every single page in our passports while looking at his computer screen.

I was stamped and given the all clear but my partner was questioned on why he has visited the middle east in the last few months (ex army who now works in private security). My partner explained and went on to show him his ID cards to which the officer then just said 'that's fine' and sent him through.

There was no mention of his criminal record from 13 years ago which confirms they do not have access to our PNC. However I would say that if your 'well traveled' they may want to question you further.

Just wanted to share my own success story as I know the ones I read before we flew out there really helped me.

 

[not-bono-ever]

right. I think this topic can be locked down now.

good work Sarah

 

[Onket]

I dunno, as soon as we're on page 27, Sarah Haywood's post may as well be on the moon.

 

[Mexas]

I guess this hasn't posted yet but they have changed the ESTA questions, no more moral turpitude! The question now reads:

2) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for a crime that resulted in serious damage to property, or serious harm to another person or government authority? *

How serious is serious? ha!

It's good for me as I can now honestly answer no to that question. MT was too vague.

 

[ddraig]

nice one!
got a link?
welcome!

 

[Mexas]

I found it as i needed to fill out the esta and was intending to say no to the MT question

This link seems to mention the change, http://abta.com/news-and-views/news/changes-to-us-esta

 

[Mexas]

I just replied with a link but its waiting mod approval.

You can just open up the esta form and check though, without having to submit it.

 

[Mexas]

May have slightly jumped the gun. If you click the help box on the esta form it states next to the question:

"This question refers to crimes involving moral turpitude - Such offenses generally involve conduct which is inherently base, vile, or depraved and contrary to the accepted rules of morality and the duties owed to persons or society in general. There are factors, such as the age of the offender or the date of the offense that may affect whether an offense will be considered a crime involving moral turpitude for purposes of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
For further information refer to § 212(a)(2) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(2), § 101(a)(43) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(43) and corresponding regulations in the Code of Federal Regulations."

Blimey it never gets easier. I'll still be ticking no.

 

[mowatt1994]

I have been arrested for drink driving which resulted in me going to court and doing 70 hours community service and I've been cautioned for public damage. I am embarrassed about them both and sorry for doing them but I have a dream of going to New York, what do you think my chances are of this happening and how many years if I have a chance of going will I have to wait? I'm 20 but I don't want to be waiting around for ever I want to see the city.

 

[Onket]

I have been arrested for drink driving which resulted in me going to court and doing 70 hours community service and I've been cautioned for public damage. I am embarrassed about them both and sorry for doing them but I have a dream of going to New York, what do you think my chances are of this happening and how many years if I have a chance of going will I have to wait? I'm 20 but I don't want to be waiting around for ever I want to see the city.

Just don't tell them about it.

 

[ddraig]

Odds of 6/4
Or don't tell em

 

[not-bono-ever]

Just fuckin' do it

a) Declare it and dont have a ££ lawyer to plead your case , you will be stuffed for a while
b) Do it and get caught- you will be stuffed for a while
c) Do it and likely get away with it and everyone wins

You are probabaly not on the Interpol or MI5 watch list

 

[savoloysam]

I have been arrested for drink driving which resulted in me going to court and doing 70 hours community service and I've been cautioned for public damage. I am embarrassed about them both and sorry for doing them but I have a dream of going to New York, what do you think my chances are of this happening and how many years if I have a chance of going will I have to wait? I'm 20 but I don't want to be waiting around for ever I want to see the city.

DUI. No chance bud. Have you seen how much beer they have over there and how long the roads go on for?

You're screwed.

 

[peterkro]

The closest I came to being fucked up was when a official at LAX decided to wind me up,he started by asking me my mothers maiden name (I've changed my name by deed poll several times and I assume he could see this) fortunately my natural reaction was to throw a strop,he just laughed and waved me through.Just as well as I hadn't memorised the mothers maiden name on the passport I was using.
By the way Immigration can't access the PNC but the other alphabet people can,there was a case a few years ago of a guy in Chicago who took a snap of the screen when FBI were accessing it.
E2a: I haven't been near the place since 11/9 and the fingerprint bollocks.

 

[twentythreedom]

Deny everything, always

 

[1%er]

By the way Immigration can't access the PNC but the other alphabet people can,there was a case a few years ago of a guy in Chicago who took a snap of the screen when FBI were accessing it.

No foreign government or agency's have automatic access to the UK police national computer. There is a department with-in the home office that will supply foreign law enforcement agency's with information from the PNC if certain criteria is met (in some cases this can be done via Interpol).

I suspect that if a screen-shot was taken of the FBI reading information from the UK PNC, that information was supplied by the department I mention above.

Some countries do have people working in their foreign embassies who collect information on court cases reported in the press. You as an individual can also buy this information from "clippings companies", These companies go through the national and local press and provide cutting of stories about the information you have paid for.

FoI response

The Home Office does not hold a copy of any agreement by which information on the Police National Computer (or other criminal conviction related information) is shared with the United States. We are however aware of the general process by which information is shared. In deciding to release the information we have considered that the public interest in relations to the exemptions set out in Section 31(1)(a) [the prevention and detection of crime and 31(1)(b) [the apprehension and prosecution of offenders] of the Freedom of Information Act falls in favour of providing the information.

The public interest reason in favour of withholding the information is to make sure that that those who have committed crimes or who have otherwise come to the attention of the law enforcement authorities in each country are not aware that information is shared between the United States and the United Kingdom. The Public Interest Test arguments in favour of disclosure are that it is important for members of the public to be aware that information is shared between the two countries. By doing this the public can be re-assured that criminals are not able to escape justice by moving country, or be committing crimes in a country that is not that of their nationality. In this case the public interest argument in favour of withholding the information is outweighed by the arguments in favour of releasing the information.

The United States authorities do not have routine access to criminal record information held on the Police National Computer nor is the Police Certificate Process routine access to the PNC by the American Authorities. The Police Certificate arrangements are with the individual applicants who may or may not choose to subsequently share the content of the certificate with the US authorities. Further information on the ACRO Police Certificate Process can be found on the ACRO website at http://www.acpo.police.uk/certificates.asp and on the application form page of the same website at http://www.acpo.police.uk/Certificates/Application Form 8.doc

The United States authorities are able to seek details of any criminal convictions held on the Police National Computer on an individual request basis through Interpol channels.

Criminal conviction information on US Nationals who have been convicted of offences in England and Wales is extracted from the Police National Computer and sent, via Interpol channels to the United States in cases where there are fingerprints available and when the conviction is for imprisonment for 12 months or more or the offence is against national security or where sharing would be in the interests of public protection."

 

[peterkro]

^^ I don't doubt that what you say is true.However the reality is sometimes different,for instance I left Paris once and thought my passport was stolen,the French border guard asked me if I had a licence (I did but just a provisional) he accessed the DVLA computer in front of me and said "you're fine sort it out on the other side" this was more than twenty years ago.
Also see the case of FBI officers being present at the seizure of Indymedia hard drives in London,the groups were in South America,France,Italy and Switzerland and the Brit police in all their pomp let them do this.

 

[Dan R]

Hello, Been reading this thread and still having mixed thoughts! I go to the USA next September with my girlfriend and I have a conviction for common assault from around 2 and half years ago which I got fined and had to do 100 hours community service they state it now stays on your record for 7 years.

I applied for an ESTA and was honest and got rejected straight away and was advised to apply for a b-2 temporary travel visa in which it has cost me 100 plus for the visa application and now I have an interview at the embassy in January in which they told me I need a police certificate which is another 50 odd quid.

Reading all these comments and im not convinced they will give me the visa I am only travelling for 2 weeks but wanting to go to New York, LA and Vegas so three separate airports.

What are the chances of them denying me for this?

Light case of common assault when my friend was attacked in which I helped and I got the book thrown at me where as my friend was attacked first he was let off for self defence! But as I was not attacked only protecting my friend I was convicted of common assault. Surely the fact my friends charges got dropped shows it was not intentional.

Any advise as by reading this mixed stories and mainly drug offences is a big no!

Many thanks all

 

[1927]

Hello, Been reading this thread and still having mixed thoughts! I go to the USA next September with my girlfriend and I have a conviction for common assault from around 2 and half years ago which I got fined and had to do 100 hours community service they state it now stays on your record for 7 years.

I applied for an ESTA and was honest and got rejected straight away and was advised to apply for a b-2 temporary travel visa in which it has cost me 100 plus for the visa application and now I have an interview at the embassy in January in which they told me I need a police certificate which is another 50 odd quid.

Reading all these comments and im not convinced they will give me the visa I am only travelling for 2 weeks but wanting to go to New York, LA and Vegas so three separate airports.

What are the chances of them denying me for this?

Light case of common assault when my friend was attacked in which I helped and I got the book thrown at me where as my friend was attacked first he was let off for self defence! But as I was not attacked only protecting my friend I was convicted of common assault. Surely the fact my friends charges got dropped shows it was not intentional.

Any advise as by reading this mixed stories and mainly drug offences is a big no!

Many thanks all

Of course you made the mistake of admitting you hade a record!

Had you researched first you would have discovered that you do not need to declare a common assault conviction as it is not a crime of moral turpitude!

 

[Onket]

And because you don't need to tell the truth when applying for an ESTA.

 

[ndt]

Had a job interview today for a international job with a American company, they asked about convictions and drugs, i informed them about a assault charge but never said i have a admonished drugs charge from 1991....they said i will have to apply for various visas for countries i will be entering.
About 8yrs ago i was going to go to vegas for a friends wedding and decided to check on the online system for entry and put in my convictions and was informed through the online system i would hace to go for a interview. ...will this be on the system and what do yous think my chances are of getting into the US or should i just right off the job?