Thoughts about Backups

[UnderOpenSky]

I know there are a few threads on this, but they are really old, so thought a new one would be ok given how some things change and some don't. Yesterday my PC fell over big time. Because I've got everything stored in Google Drive, it's not as much ball ache as it could have been. However the whole thing has got me thinking that perhaps what I'm doing isn't quite enough for more eventualities. Drive (or rather backup and sync) is pretty awesome as you don't have to think about it. This is where past strategies have fallen down. I can cope with a few lost pictures, but my partner runs her own business and I've got a fair bit I wouldn't want to loose.

I'm trying to think of everything that could go wrong, so that we have something in place. The one that came to my mind when I was running yesterday was some kind of ransomware attack where all the encrypted files get uploaded to Drive. I don't actually know how common this against home users, but still. Is it possible for these things to infect backed up office files or this that being a bit paranoid? Other threats I can think off is someone getting access to one of our Gmail accounts or a fire. What else is worth thinking about?

Can anyone recommend any software that copies the folders (rather then as its own file type) across the network automatically? I'm thinking that a copy on the local pc, a copy of on the file server and some rotating USB sticks which are also plugged into the server? Worth having a second cloud backup? Curious about what other people use?

 

[weltweit]

I am interested in this also. My broadband is too slow to back up in the cloud so an external disk is my preferred solution but it being on premises doesn't deal with the fire scenario.

 

[cybershot]

Don’t you have a NAS?

All my data goes on the NAS via mapped drives, Nothing kept on local devices.

Stuff that needs backing up goes up to onedrive using the built in backup software as a sync over night.

I also do occasional backups for an external device. Usually every 2-4 weeks. Sometimes longer because I forget but the data I backup doesn’t change that often. If you’re running a business you probably at least want to do the external backup say every Friday evening.

I keep the external backup off site (at work) so it house goes up in flames or a burgler nicks everything I’ve still got that backup as well as the one drive access. The external drive should cover you from ransomware because it’s only ever connected to the NAS during a backup run.

in your case you might want two external backups and run them every other week and swap them round to keep off site if there’s business critical data, you don’t want both drives in the house over the weekend because Sod’s law that’s when you’ll blow up the house.

Some people go balls deep but don’t need to over complicate it or go to great expense. The hard part is finding somewhere for your off site if you don’t go to the office regular or visit someone regular.

If you don’t have a NAS look into it. Massive initial outlay but worth their weight in gold.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Don’t you have a NAS?

All my data goes on the NAS via mapped drives, Nothing kept on local devices.

Stuff that needs backing up goes up to onedrive using the built in backup software as a sync over night.

I also do occasional backups for an external device. Usually every 2-4 weeks. Sometimes longer because I forget but the data I backup doesn’t change that often. If you’re running a business you probably at least want to do the external backup say every Friday evening.

I keep the external backup off site (at work) so it house goes up in flames or a burgler nicks everything I’ve still got that backup as well as the one drive access. The external drive should cover you from ransomware because it’s only ever connected to the NAS during a backup run.

in your case you might want two external backups and run them every other week and swap them round to keep off site if there’s business critical data, you don’t want both drives in the house over the weekend because Sod’s law that’s when you’ll blow up the house.

Some people go balls deep but don’t need to over complicate it or go to great expense. The hard part is finding somewhere for your off site if you don’t go to the office regular or visit someone regular.

If you don’t have a NAS look into it. Massive initial outlay but worth their weight in gold.

Thanks. Don't feel I'm do to far off then. I've got a HP Microserver which serves as my NAS, the files are kept locally and backed up to that, but I need to automate it so we both remember. All the drives on that are mapped to our local machines. I'm hoping very soon I'll be confident to setup a script to do everything, but for now would like something with GUI, just to be sure.

I'll get a couple of fresh USB drives and work out a routine to make sure that they do get taken off site.

 

[cybershot]

I’d say if possible take the local devices out of the equation and just save direct to the NAS, it’s just one system to back up then.

you’re probably being over cautious about the NAS but if it’s rock solid and the drives are healthy. Put some faith into it.

less scripts/syncs toworry about and you can then access the data from any device on your local network.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I am interested in this also. My broadband is too slow to back up in the cloud so an external disk is my preferred solution but it being on premises doesn't deal with the fire scenario.

Luckily all our critical stuff is mostly Office type stuff, so not huge files. I'm not totally comfortable with Google Photos since they removed the ability to sync it with a local machine, like the rest of my files, but all my pictures are taken on my phone and it does play nice with that.

 

[BristolEcho]

I'm wondering what people do to store music now that I've started buying files again..... I have a external hard disk but was thinking of signing up for some cloud storage.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I’d say if possible take the local device out of the equation and just save direct to the NAS, it’s just one system to back up then.

one less script/sync to worry about and you can then access the data from any device on your local network.

That's what I use drive for really, just keeping everything in sync, but your right, it would be simpler just to keep on a network share on the NAS.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I'm wondering what people do to store music now that I've started buying files again..... I have a external hard disk but was thinking of signing up for some cloud storage.

This is what I used to be super precious about, had it on multiple drives, but I don't think I've updated my music collection in about 5 years since I got to Spotify.

 

[weltweit]

I wonder how many u75 users are flying without backups? I bet it would be quite a large number. My lad doesn't have any backup yet, and I am almost the same, it has been on my todo list for longer than I care to recall but still I haven't actioned it.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I wonder how many u75 users are flying without backups? I bet it would be quite a large number. My lad doesn't have any backup yet, and I am almost the same, it has been on my todo list for longer than I care to recall but still I haven't actioned it.

I'd hope with things like Onedrive and Google Drive there are fewer, but yeah, a fair few I'd have thought.

 

[NoXion]

I'd hope with things like Onedrive and Google Drive there are fewer, but yeah, a fair few I'd have thought.

I decided to give OneDrive a go when setting up my new PC late last year. 5GB is nothing, it quickly got full, and since I refuse to pay Microsoft for more space and it kept bugging me, I disabled that bullshit. Also it kept messing up my desktop for some stupid reason. More bother than it's worth.

I barely remembered that I have a Google Drive. Checking it now I see that I've somehow managed to use 1.2GB out of 15GB available, even though all it contains are two PDF files less than half a MB each. So it's basically an extension of my Gmail account, what a swindle. Also 15GB is still a small amount of data as far as I'm concerned. My porn collection is larger than that!

So for general backing up of any data that I might want to keep, these kind of free cloud services are bobbins as far I'm concerned. If I were to fork over money to back up my data, then I wouldn't want to do it via overhyped cloud bullshit anyway.

I might make more use of the Google Drive to store specific documents that I might want to access when away from my PC, although that depends if I can ever be arsed to set up the desktop version to regularly sync certain files which I'm constantly tinkering with.

Checking the dates on some documents, I've managed to hold on to quite a few files for ten years or more, so I can't be doing that terribly.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I decided to give OneDrive a go when setting up my new PC late last year. 5GB is nothing, it quickly got full, and since I refuse to pay Microsoft for more space and it kept bugging me, I disabled that bullshit. Also it kept messing up my desktop for some stupid reason. More bother than it's worth.

I barely remembered that I have a Google Drive. Checking it now I see that I've somehow managed to use 1.2GB out of 15GB available, even though all it contains are two PDF files less than half a MB each. So it's basically an extension of my Gmail account, what a swindle. Also 15GB is still a small amount of data as far as I'm concerned. My porn collection is larger than that!

So for general backing up of any data that I might want to keep, these kind of free cloud services are bobbins as far I'm concerned. If I were to fork over money to back up my data, then I wouldn't want to do it via overhyped cloud bullshit anyway.

I might make more use of the Google Drive to store specific documents that I might want to access when away from my PC, although that depends if I can ever be arsed to set up the desktop version to regularly sync certain files which I'm constantly tinkering with.

Checking the dates on some documents, I've managed to hold on to quite a few files for ten years or more, so I can't be doing that terribly.

I don't know. £1.59 for a 100gb a month seems a bargain to me to make sure data is backed up with out thinking about it. It's also the bonus of being able to check things from work, my phone and syncing to laptops.

I'm not sure various, umm, media files warrant quite that level of concern.

 

[muscovyduck]

Don't get me fucking started on onedrive, even though I've disabled it still seems to be messing up my system Since then I have been using it in browser only but I'm trying to consolidate all my storage a bit - I'm spread too thin with no plan and it's confusing and leaves me more at risk of data leakage. I have Dropbox too which I preferred but I ran out of space.

 

[Fez909]

Luckily all our critical stuff is mostly Office type stuff, so not huge files. I'm not totally comfortable with Google Photos since they removed the ability to sync it with a local machine, like the rest of my files, but all my pictures are taken on my phone and it does play nice with that.

rclone might do what you want for Google Photos: Google Photos

Good for other cloud-based systems, too. Dropbox, One Drive, etc.

 

[xenon]

For my main system,I clone the system disk to have a swappable replacement.
Otherwise back up documents and my music stuff onto a server. Sensitive documents into a encrypted container.
And now and then copy that stuff onto another external hard disk.
The sensitive documents are also copied into an encrypted container on USB stick and stored in a safe at a relatives house. Though. a lot of the details are out of date now.

 

[cybershot]

The house I recently moved into has a safe. I keep forgetting I have it tbh as it’s hidden at the back of a built in wardrobe.

My main problem with the safe is, where do I store the key? If a burgler finds safe they will assume something valuable is inside and trash house looking for key. Also my memory is shit so if I put it in a ‘safe place’ (pun intended) I’ll probably forget where I’ve put it.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

rclone might do what you want for Google Photos: Google Photos

Good for other cloud-based systems, too. Dropbox, One Drive, etc.

Thanks. That's the most promising yet, but it appears it doesn't save them at the original quality. Which tbf is probably fine for many of my pictures. I'm wondering if the best way going forwards is to use the very time consuming Google Takeout and going forwards find a way that my photos are backed up to an additional place as well as Photos.

 

[cybershot]

Thanks. That's the most promising yet, but it appears it doesn't save them at the original quality. Which tbf is probably fine for many of my pictures. I'm wondering if the best way going forwards is to use the very time consuming Google Takeout and going forwards find a way that my photos are backed up to an additional place as well as Photos.

Do you have Amazon Prime?

You have unlimited photo storage included.




99.9% of the photos I take are on my phone now. The ones I don't, I transfer to it anyway. Even Lightroom (amazingly free) is so good on the phones/iPad now for touching up pictures, and more user friendly than the desktop version imo. I just store them all on my phone and stomach the 79p a month to pay for 50GB of iCloud storage. Recently had a purge, because, not every photo I take on my phone needs to be kept as I take so many photos, majority get discarded apart from the really good ones.

The 79p a month far outweighs the inconvenience of losing any photos, plus I can just forget about it and know its done. I don't understand why some people are so agaisnt paying what is essentially pennies for cloud storage that just works, especially when it syncs so well with your phone and other devices, or at least does with Apple kit, and I can still access iCloud web portal or use the iCloud pp on Windows PC should I need too.

Luckily I got on OneDrive when the storage limits were more liberal and was able to keep my 15GB for free, that works well for my personal data (in an encrypted container) and other stuff.

Movies and music I backup to my external drive but not the cloud, at the end of the day I can always re download majority of that shit easily enough. (appreciate that won't be the case for everyone, especially with music as not everything is on streaming services and not everything is easily re-downloadable, I guess you need to make an effort with the more rare stuff) as for porn, unless you have a fascination with a particular person or video thats not re-obtainable I don't see why anyone even needs to keep it anymore, theres that much out there for free, or just re-sub for a month and use a download tool to re-grab what you want to keep.

If it's videos of yourself then I can understand why a cloud solution might not be the best solution!

 

[teuchter]

I currently have about 1.5TB of data.

I use idrive as a remote backup.
Then I have two time machine (I'm on mac) backups that I rotate between.
All of these work as incremental backups and preserve some degree of history.

This works OK - but the main thing I haven't yet worked out is a strategy where a portion of stuff is "archived" and excluded from the incremental backup system. At the moment, I encounter various problems if I want to move large chunks of stuff between folders or disks because the backup systems don't recognise they are the same files but in different locations.

 

[cybershot]

I currently have about 1.5TB of data.

I use idrive as a remote backup.
Then I have two time machine (I'm on mac) backups that I rotate between.
All of these work as incremental backups and preserve some degree of history.

This works OK - but the main thing I haven't yet worked out is a strategy where a portion of stuff is "archived" and excluded from the incremental backup system. At the moment, I encounter various problems if I want to move large chunks of stuff between folders or disks because the backup systems don't recognise they are the same files but in different locations.

I know you asked this previously, and obviously didn't have the right hat on at the time, but the term you're looking for in your solution is deduplication. You either need to introduce it to your source folder or your backup. Not going to go into the ins and outs here as it's above and beyond but to point you in the right direction:

Understanding the Importance of Deduplication in Your Backup Strategy

In breaking down the true cost of file storage, we explained how an intelligent backup solution can help keep those costs to a minimum. One of the unsung heroes of that process is a data storage

blog.storagecraft.com

It can be pretty RAM/CPU heavy mind and generally not aimed at consumers, but there may be something out there.

 

[teuchter]

I know you asked this previously, and obviously didn't have the right hat on at the time, but the term you're looking for in your solution is deduplication. You either need to introduce it to your source folder or your backup. Not going to go into the ins and outs here as it's above and beyond but to point you in the right direction:

Understanding the Importance of Deduplication in Your Backup Strategy

In breaking down the true cost of file storage, we explained how an intelligent backup solution can help keep those costs to a minimum. One of the unsung heroes of that process is a data storage

blog.storagecraft.com

Thanks. I will have a look at that. I'm aware that some deduplication measures is what I need - but neither of my current backup systems (apple time machine, or idrive) are able to do it automatically.
In idrive I can do it manually to some extent.

 

[nick]

Linked question. I have iCloud backup, but want to have a physical local version as well. I need a new , larger drive for my timemachine

My machine is capable of thunderbolt 3 / USB 4. (or something equally "wonderful")

What merit, if any, is there in getting a drive with this level of connectivity? The cable may take 20GB per sec, but the write speed on a 7200 rpm skinny disk seems to be 250MB per sec, so seems to me that this iOS the constraining factor.

Am I missing something or have I just spotted an example of naked marketing in action

 

[teuchter]

Linked question. I have iCloud backup, but want to have a physical local version as well. I need a new , larger drive for my timemachine

My machine is capable of thunderbolt 3 / USB 4. (or something equally "wonderful")

What merit, if any, is there in getting a drive with this level of connectivity? The cable may take 20GB per sec, but the write speed on a 7200 rpm skinny disk seems to be 250MB per sec, so seems to me that this iOS the constraining factor.

Am I missing something or have I just spotted an example of naked marketing in action

It's all very straightforward

But yes it will be determined by the disk speed in most cases.

I think the difference between USB2 and USB3 cable can make a difference but from USB3 upwards not so much.

Beware the difference between Mb per second and MB per second - caused me much confusion recently

 

[nick]

Thanks
So to ask another way (ior use primarily with a 2TB M1 MacBook, but maybe a bit of file storage also hence thinking about 10TB)

Would I want to spend £ 455 on this (thunderbolt 3)
G-Tech G-DRIVE 10TB with Thunderbolt. ??

when I could spend £298 on this (USB 3.0)
G-Tech G-DRIVE 10TB. ??

Both seem to be 7200 rpm spinner, with 248 MBs write speed

PS Sunray's explanation on the other thread was so straightforward that I am still trying to struggle with all the standards for USB

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Thanks
So to ask another way (ior use primarily with a 2TB M1 MacBook, but maybe a bit of file storage also hence thinking about 10TB)

Would I want to spend £ 455 on this (thunderbolt 3)
G-Tech G-DRIVE 10TB with Thunderbolt. ??

when I could spend £298 on this (USB 3.0)
G-Tech G-DRIVE 10TB. ??

Both seem to be 7200 rpm spinner, with 248 MBs write speed

PS Sunray's explanation on the other thread was so straightforward that I am still trying to struggle with all the standards for USB

That's crazy money. You could get a proper NAS with multiple hard drives and WiFi for your other devices for that.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Do you have Amazon Prime?

You have unlimited photo storage included.

View attachment 257370


99.9% of the photos I take are on my phone now. The ones I don't, I transfer to it anyway. Even Lightroom (amazingly free) is so good on the phones/iPad now for touching up pictures, and more user friendly than the desktop version imo. I just store them all on my phone and stomach the 79p a month to pay for 50GB of iCloud storage. Recently had a purge, because, not every photo I take on my phone needs to be kept as I take so many photos, majority get discarded apart from the really good ones.

The 79p a month far outweighs the inconvenience of losing any photos, plus I can just forget about it and know its done. I don't understand why some people are so agaisnt paying what is essentially pennies for cloud storage that just works, especially when it syncs so well with your phone and other devices, or at least does with Apple kit, and I can still access iCloud web portal or use the iCloud pp on Windows PC should I need too.

Luckily I got on OneDrive when the storage limits were more liberal and was able to keep my 15GB for free, that works well for my personal data (in an encrypted container) and other stuff.

Movies and music I backup to my external drive but not the cloud, at the end of the day I can always re download majority of that shit easily enough. (appreciate that won't be the case for everyone, especially with music as not everything is on streaming services and not everything is easily re-downloadable, I guess you need to make an effort with the more rare stuff) as for porn, unless you have a fascination with a particular person or video thats not re-obtainable I don't see why anyone even needs to keep it anymore, theres that much out there for free, or just re-sub for a month and use a download tool to re-grab what you want to keep.

If it's videos of yourself then I can understand why a cloud solution might not be the best solution!

God yes. It's not exactly expensive to rent a bit of space in the cloud for this kind of thing. I do have Amazon Prime, I'd not actually thought of that. I was really happy with Google Photos as it was just another part of drive, so files were synced from my phone to my PC, but they separated it. It still comes out your quota, but no longer does the syncing thing. I still like bits of it like how good it is at finding pictures. I mean I know I don't need the ability to search for my cats by name, but it's kinda cool it will do it. It does make me a bit nervous though, I guess the main concern is my Google account being hijacked and not having huge amounts of faith in google that all my pictures would be totally secure.

Amazon seems to do what I need. Photos are now being backed up from my phone to both Google and their servers. And I can use their app to download them to my file server at home. Happy days.

 

[nick]

That's crazy money. You could get a proper NAS with multiple hard drives and WiFi for you other devices for that.

yeah I suspect there is cheaper - I just chose brands that are on the apple store as I am fortunate to e holding an apple evoucher. I'm sure there are equivalent 10TB drives for less

But also happy to save the voucher for another iToy (next phone?) and investigate NAS

But have just lost 30 minutes trying to understand what is a NAS -
Is this what you mean? (has worrying reviews):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074DXG..._dp_AAVWHXCJT0JVHV6YTD3R?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

If someone could tell me what to buy, would be v grateful.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

yeah I suspect there is cheaper - I just chose brands that are on the apple store as I am fortunate to e holding an apple evoucher. I'm sure there are equivalent 10TB drives for less

But also happy to save the voucher for another iToy (next phone?) and investigate NAS

But have just lost 30 minutes trying to understand what is a NAS -
Is this what you mean? (has worrying reviews):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B074DXG..._dp_AAVWHXCJT0JVHV6YTD3R?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

If someone could tell me what to buy, would be v grateful.

Tbf if you need 10gb, then getting a single drive is probably the simplest option, since you are backing up to icloud. I see you can get a WD 10tb from Amazon for £160

A NAS is a file server for your machine or network. Advantages might be you could use several smaller (and cheaper drives) so if one fails not all your eggs are in one basket. You could have two hard drives in there which mirror the data, although that would probably be over kill. They can also work with more then one machine, which might not be relevant to what you need it for. You can add extra drives if you need more space in future. I use a little server to do the same job, it runs Plex so I can watch stuff on my firestick or other devices, has runs bit torrent and of course stores/backs my files up. I'm also connected to it at the moment through a web browser at work and typing this reply.

 

[nick]

Thanks -
Yep maybe I should keep it simple. Used to Time Machine to 2 WD drives and then keep one at work (when people used to go to work)

Started looking at something called a Synology DS218 2 Bay 2GB Diskless Desktop NAS which is £250 + £110 for each of 2 4TB disks, but suspect
a) may be overkill for me
b) I really don't know what I am doing