Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
In the red corner: Donald 'alternative facts' Trump, while in the blue corner Tony 'i'm a pretty straight sort of guy' Blair: but which is the biggest liar?
The world's biggest liar: Trump v Blair
- Thread starter Pickman's model
- Start date
2hats
Dust.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
That's hard man.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Was Blair shown to have lied at all?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I think blair bought his own bullshit. Trump knows he's lying and everyone else is a sucker.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, e.g. going to see Newcastle before he was 4
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Blair is a far far superior liar. Sincere, earnest, articulate, consistent, never allowing himself to be explicitly nailed to a fact. Trump just blurts out whatever self-serving bollocks comes into his nasty little mind - even it contradicts what he said ten seconds ago. No contest.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I think Trump is so stupid and so divorced from reality that he probably believes most of the shit he says, or expects it to become true simply by virtue of his having said it.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
I don't think you can even compare St Tony's rather poor grasp of reality with Trump's surround sound of roaring bullshit. The Donald pours out a steady stream of falsehoods and is quite unchecked by fact checking. Found a liar, no matter the evidence, he often defiantly repeats the porkie. His other childlike ploy is to insist he never said that even if there is video of him doing so. He is a brazen deceiver; you'd think he'd had an unscrupulous career selling real estate.
I can't imagine Blair insisting he never actually promoted the Iraq war as a good. Actually quite a common position amongst the UK population and shared by the fainthearted Trump who seems unable to accept that he ever supported the war despite the recordings. Of course he may have been lying at the time.
If you read Chilcot the British basically come across as passengers in Iraq. They were a bit better informed than the Septics about Iraq and the regional situation but still meekly changed their policy of containment on Saddam after the management changed in DC. I doubt the UK's eager toadying made much difference to the course of events. Despite an enormously inflated British sense of national self importance there is precious little evidence of UK leverage in the US at the time. The Brits would just have been dismissed as surrender monkeys like the French if they had had the bottom to stick to their policy preferences. Sad!
May and the Commons will likely trot along behind any war train Trump initiates. Perhaps one some neocons have always wanted with an uppity China that I'm sure Tony et al would have backed if 9-11 hadn't headed it off. That's despite the current Brexiting government being uniquely eager to be Beijing's bitch in commerce. The thing that appears to make the British defence establishment nervous is his pandering to Russia and distaste for US entanglement in NATO. Two factors that lie behind the supine way HMG behaves with DC. Because unlike the mighty USA the UK is on the edge of a dangerous continent were old demons are rising. It's pretty much defenceless without binding alliances that compromise its sovereignty.
I can't imagine Blair insisting he never actually promoted the Iraq war as a good. Actually quite a common position amongst the UK population and shared by the fainthearted Trump who seems unable to accept that he ever supported the war despite the recordings. Of course he may have been lying at the time.
If you read Chilcot the British basically come across as passengers in Iraq. They were a bit better informed than the Septics about Iraq and the regional situation but still meekly changed their policy of containment on Saddam after the management changed in DC. I doubt the UK's eager toadying made much difference to the course of events. Despite an enormously inflated British sense of national self importance there is precious little evidence of UK leverage in the US at the time. The Brits would just have been dismissed as surrender monkeys like the French if they had had the bottom to stick to their policy preferences. Sad!
May and the Commons will likely trot along behind any war train Trump initiates. Perhaps one some neocons have always wanted with an uppity China that I'm sure Tony et al would have backed if 9-11 hadn't headed it off. That's despite the current Brexiting government being uniquely eager to be Beijing's bitch in commerce. The thing that appears to make the British defence establishment nervous is his pandering to Russia and distaste for US entanglement in NATO. Two factors that lie behind the supine way HMG behaves with DC. Because unlike the mighty USA the UK is on the edge of a dangerous continent were old demons are rising. It's pretty much defenceless without binding alliances that compromise its sovereignty.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I feel like that's why it's a bit of an unfair contest at this stage. Trump hasn't even had a chance to reach the heights of Blair.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
There's clear evidence that his lips were moving, so yes.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I mean, really, guys, what is it, y'know, what is it to actually lie? I mean, y'know, c'mon, can any of us actually say? Who are we, guys, who are we to say? Y'know? C'mon.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
2hats I think it's weird that Cold War 2 Clinton is considered the 'reasonable one' and yet Donald "what are we doing here folks, let's not have a war with Russia" Trump is looked at as the dangerous war-monger. I don't like the noises he makes about China but still, even with that. I honestly don't know what people were hearing whenever Hilary opened her mouth, birdsong and folky guitar? The guy for all his flaws doesn't even want to get involved in Syria... how can he be derided as an isolationist on the one hand at the exact same time as being derided as a war-pig on the other... sad.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Ducks in a row though, can we try and round up as many of Trumps lies here as we can so we can keep a proper tally?
Here's my submission, but I'm not sure if that counts as a proper Trump lie...
edited to show the "alternative facts" interview of Kellyanne Conway itself.
Does it have to be Trump himself saying the stuff or wot?
Here's my submission, but I'm not sure if that counts as a proper Trump lie...
edited to show the "alternative facts" interview of Kellyanne Conway itself.
Does it have to be Trump himself saying the stuff or wot?
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Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
FTFY
In fairness, neither of them are the world's biggest liar. That accolade belongs to my mate 'Billy Bullshit'. He makes Walter Mitty look like a mere Padawan Learner.
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