The UK banking system

[zArk]

the Bank of England is a private business which loans the UK government money to put into circulation so that the economy works. We, the Uk public are then working to pay off the loan our government have gained from the BoE with interest. Since the only money valid in the UK is Pounds Stirling, we can never pay of this debt, ever. The BoE makes the money and loans the money, we the uk public can never have more money than we owe. Plus with interest on top its a nightmare.

Looking at a fiver, it states "I promise to pay the bearer on demand", but who is paying who? Its not even positive value, its owed money.

So, it is true to say that the piece of paper is a debt.
I use a debt to pay for goods, which is in effect, transferring a debt.

The taxation system is created to pay off the interest, but even more amazing, the money used to pay off the interest is loaned money from the BoE.

So capitalism isnt really the problem because it doesnt even affect us. Capitalism doesnt even exist. We are constantly in negative credit therefore any money we accumulate is literally making us poorer.

BoE announced recently that the UK has borrowing of £1.5 trillon

in 1998 Brown announced that 415tns of Uk gold reserve was being sold for US dollars and foreign investment (gold turned into cash).
1998 gold reserves = 715tns which was £6 billion

300 tns left = max of £3 billion quid
B0E is owed £1,500 billion quid

During ww1 uk debt was £7 billion

So to conclude;

even with the gold reserves (which are valued by the stock market) the UK's reserves were substantially short of borrowed money in 1998.
The gold has been sold, replaced with the US dollar drawn from the Federal Reserve which is another private bank and used to invest in the stock market. (the gold has been privatised)

i hear alot of people going on about Gold, buy gold, in times of recession its great. ermmm no! it wont make a dent in any national debt. More gold = devaluation, there isnt enough Gold to pay of the national debt. heh

£5 note = 0 g of gold
Actually it is less than zero if that is possible
scratches head

nah its not possible. The economy is fake

Its a farce, a pretense, a simulacrae.

"To dissimulate is to feign not to have what one does.
To simulate is to feign to have what one hasnt" -Baudrillard

Capitalism, communism, socialism all fake, as they rely upon the premise of ownership of trade and industry. Trade and industry built upon pretend money, the simulacrae.
Liberal, Labour, Tories all fake.
Culture created through a system based upon sign value.
Owning a sign, a symbol = owning language

Ownership is myth

The simulacrae simulates ownership.

The BoE will claim ownership of all property due to the National Debt, while we live in the pretense of owning property. The entire thing is a performance based upon belief.

Believing in Santa is for kids.
Believing in the economy and money is for adults.

Democracy within a national private banking system is a sham. You may have wondered why government do things that the public dont want, well its because they are not responsible to you. They are responsible to the Bank of England.

Political parties are not representing the public, they are;

Management teams bidding for the CEO job of slavery incorporated

Everything is owned by private banks, we have been signed over as collateral to private investors. The banks have the power and the control.
Privatise the media to pay off debt
Privatise industry to pay off debt
Privatise public services to pay off debt
Privatise the public to pay off debt

A public banking system means that the democratic system produces representatives of the people to act in the interests of the people who elected that party.
A private banking system means the democratic system re-produces representatives of the people to act in the interests of the debtors, with the facade of public interest.

All this cannot be denied. I am await responses from;

Mr Cameron
Mr Blair
Local MP
Local councillors

I have yet to receive a response.

We are literally in the worst depression ever experienced by the UK. Bankruptcies are at an all time high (300 year high - Bank of England formed in 1694), the BoE is holding interest rates stable so to increase house prices- thus increase debt and we are being shown the Total Control Network the banks are demanding in order to secure their investment.
We are the property of the private banks, under economic law - uk law and world law and it is all a sham.

Hi, i am zArk

 

[editor]

We are literally in the worst depression ever experienced by the UK.

Err, no we're not.

 

[Hollis]

nah its not possible. The economy is fake

Its a farce, a pretense, a simulacrae.

"To dissimulate is to feign not to have what one does.
To simulate is to feign to have what one hasnt" -Baudrillard

Indeed indeed.. So true!

 

[chio]

 

[Flavour]

Yeah but if without banks, I'd have to keep all my money in a sock drawer, and I'm too deliciously rich to do that.

 

[zArk]

Err, no we're not.

excuse me,

with a debt of £1.5 trillion

can you show me a debt higher ever recorded in the UK?

this £1.5 trillion owed to a corporation, which prints and issues the very money it is owed.

depression doesnt become visible until interest rates are raised. The BoE have stated they are not raising interest rates. Record bankruptcies in 2004 - then in 2005 and now 2006 it will get worse

 

[zArk]

Yeah but if without banks, I'd have to keep all my money in a sock drawer, and I'm too deliciously rich to do that.

not saying remove banks. i am saying that a PRIVATE national banking system has created this. A PUBLIC national banking system would change the economy, meaning interest-free loans and a stable economy.

 

[Jelly]

I find the idea that billions can be lost due to people losing 'confidence' in the sytstem or in a company or product bizarre yet hilarious. Kinda reaffirms the idea that it's all a figment of some collective consciousness

 

[Andy the Don]

Load of crap Zark, back to your o'level economics class you go young man..

Where does one start.. how about

the Bank of England is a private business

No its not

Pls see http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/parliament/index.htm

From above url..

As a public organisation, wholly-owned by Government, and with a significant public policy role, the Bank is accountable to Parliament.

Now if you cannot even get the above correct, why should we bother reading the rest..?? And maybe that's why you have not received a reply from Tony Blair etc..

 

[Jelly]

excuse me,

with a debt of £1.5 trillion

can you show me a debt higher ever recorded in the UK?

this £1.5 trillion owed to a corporation, which prints and issues the very money it is owed.

depression doesnt become visible until interest rates are raised. The BoE have stated they are not raising interest rates. Record bankruptcies in 2004 - then in 2005 and now 2006 it will get worse

Yeah but depression is a severe and prolonged recession characterized by inefficient economic productivity, high unemployment, and falling price levels. So, although i get what you're saying, you probably need to rephrase that bit of it

 

[Fong]

Yeah but if without banks, I'd have to keep all my money in a sock drawer, and I'm too deliciously rich to do that.

I think without banks you wouldn't have any money, I believe that was somewhat of his point.

Not sure this is classed as a depression as that term may have many cavaets that need to be met. I do think that we are experiencing the worst debt ridden society we have ever had. Never have we owed so much on an individual level, even taking into account inflation and valuation.

 

[newharper]

the Bank of England is a private business which loans the UK government money to put into circulation so that the economy works.

Hi, i am zArk

Woof

"During the governorship of Montagu Norman, which lasted from 1920 to 1944, the Bank made deliberate efforts to move away from commercial banking and become a central bank. In 1946, shortly after the end of Norman's tenure, the bank was nationalised."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England

Lizards

 

[Hollis]

not saying remove banks. i am saying that a PRIVATE national banking system has created this. A PUBLIC national banking system would change the economy, meaning interest-free loans and a stable economy.

Interest free loans would be a disaster. The whole point of money is it has a value. Give it out for free and you'd have every Tommy Fuckwit in the world queing up for some.

End of.

 

[Hollis]

Never have we owed so much on an individual level, even taking into account inflation and valuation.

Yes.. and that's partly because people spend shed loads more than you used to doh!! Its more a case of people getting more and more used to living beyond their means.

(I know there's exceptions.. but 'tis often the case)....

 

[zArk]

Load of crap Zark, back to your o'level economics class you go young man..

Where does one start.. how about



No its not

Pls see http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/parliament/index.htm

From above url..

Now if you cannot even get the above correct, why should we bother reading the rest..?? And maybe that's why you have not received a reply from Tony Blair etc..

excuse me, i am correct the Bank of England was created 1694 by a gentleman called William Patterson.
The english civil war removed the wealth and control from the King, then Cromwell stepped in, wrote into legislature the platform for a private national bank, then 1688 saw the return of the monarchy (william and mary) then the bank was formed in 1694 owned in total by private investors.

you are wrong, get over it.
The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager. Since then its role has developed and evolved, centred on the management of the nation's currency and its position at the centre of the UK's financial system
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/

 

[zArk]

Interest free loans would be a disaster. The whole point of money is it has a value. Give it out for free and you'd have every Tommy Fuckwit in the world queing up for some.

End of.

ermm what are you talking about?

yeah, they could queue up but it doesnt mean the money would be loaned.

 

[Jelly]

Yes.. and that's partly because people spend shed loads more than you used to doh!! Its more a case of people getting more and more used to living beyond their means.

(I know there's exceptions.. but 'tis often the case)....

Well the current financial climate, supported and egged on by BoE and all other financial institutions, are falling over each other to encourage borrowing and spending. Do you blame the 13 yr-old who, unaware of the full implications of their actions, buys some pills outside the school gates... or the dealer?

 

[gsv]

You haven't heard of the "theory/philosophy/history" forum have you Zark...
MODS!

GS(v)

 

[nino_savatte]

excuse me,

with a debt of £1.5 trillion

can you show me a debt higher ever recorded in the UK?

this £1.5 trillion owed to a corporation, which prints and issues the very money it is owed.

depression doesnt become visible until interest rates are raised. The BoE have stated they are not raising interest rates. Record bankruptcies in 2004 - then in 2005 and now 2006 it will get worse

That doesn't make it a depression. Sorry, I may be no economist but even I know that much of the criteria for a depression are missing.

 

[Andy the Don]

excuse me, i am correct the Bank of England was created 1694 by a gentleman called William Patterson.
The english civil war removed the wealth and control from the King, then Cromwell stepped in, wrote into legislature the platform for a private national bank, then 1688 saw the return of the monarchy (william and mary) then the bank was formed in 1694 owned in total by private investors.

you are wrong, get over it.
The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager. Since then its role has developed and evolved, centred on the management of the nation's currency and its position at the centre of the UK's financial system
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/

It is not a private bank it reports to parliment, a private bank would report to its shareholders. The BoE does not have private shareholders (shareholders that are either private citizens or funds or companies). The BoE does not issue dividends..etc

Why am I arguing this with you.. I have much better things to do. I work in accountancy I have studied the UK banking & financial system. I have studied UK banking law.. I know what I am talking about..

 

[zArk]

Woof

"During the governorship of Montagu Norman, which lasted from 1920 to 1944, the Bank made deliberate efforts to move away from commercial banking and become a central bank. In 1946, shortly after the end of Norman's tenure, the bank was nationalised."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_England

Lizards

you misunderstand the description.

The nationalisation moved the bank into a position where it manages all subsidery banks under it. Barclays, Natwest, Midland, TSB, etc etc all franchises of the Bank of England.

 

[Jelly]

That doesn't make it a depression. Sorry, I may be no economist but even I know that much of the criteria for a depression are missing.

True. What Zark's trying to say is that most of the conditions for a severe economic depression exist but it is the BoE refusal to raise interest rates in order to address the spiralling national debt that is artificially creating the impression that everything's aok.

But... hang on.... it's all artifice anyhow so that's ok then
spend spend spend while you can

 

[zArk]

It is not a private bank it reports to parliment, a private bank would report to its shareholders. The BoE does not have private shareholders (shareholders that are either private citizens or funds or companies). The BoE does not issue dividends..etc

Why am I arguing this with you.. I have much better things to do. I work in accountancy I have studied the UK banking & financial system. I have studied UK banking law.. I know what I am talking about..

omfg..

It is a private bank.

The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager. Since then its role has developed and evolved, centred on the management of the nation's currency and its position at the centre of the UK's financial system.

 

[nino_savatte]

True. What Zark's trying to say is that most of the conditions for a severe economic depression exist but it is the BoE refusal to raise interest rates in order to address the spiralling national debt that is artificially creating the impression that everything's aok.

But... hang on.... it's all artifice anyhow so that's ok then
spend spend spend while you can

But then any economy that is built largely on consumerism is no more than a mirage; a castle made of sand. It can't last.

 

[zArk]

In 1997 the Government announced its intention to transfer full operational responsibility for monetary policy to the Bank of England. The Bank thus rejoined the ranks of the world's "independent" central banks. However, debt management on behalf of the Government was transferred to HM Treasury, and the Bank's regulatory functions passes to the new Financial Services Authority

One particularly significant development around this time lay in the perception of credit or 'imaginary money' as it was then called

To the man in the street, money simply meant coins, but the new thinking was overturning that Shibboleth: it was suggesting that money could take other forms which would have no intrinsic value and yet still possess qualities to enable it to be used to make payments thereby fuelling and lubricating the economy

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/about/history/major_developments3.htm

 

[Jelly]

omfg..

It is a private bank.

The Bank of England was founded in 1694 to act as the Government's banker and debt-manager. Since then its role has developed and evolved, centred on the management of the nation's currency and its position at the centre of the UK's financial system.

No it's not. It has no shareholders and doesn't make a profit for a specific private group of individuals. It is, effectively, another branch of Govt, allbeit one with unparalleled access to private markets and expertise. And whilst i'm with you in that many aspects of our glorious governing structures can be, theoretically, viewed as private membership clubs set up for the furthering of the ideals and aspirations of a select number of people there's no way you can claim, categoriaclly and without qualification, that it's a private bank in the same way as, say, Coutts etc.

Elaborate, rather than repeating yourself with the same statement.

 

[Pingu]

you misunderstand the description.

The nationalisation moved the bank into a position where it manages all subsidery banks under it. Barclays, Natwest, Midland, TSB, etc etc all franchises of the Bank of England.

do you actually know anything at all about how banking works?


fuck...

even that AR<random number> more sense than this

 

[zArk]

But then any economy that is built largely on consumerism is no more than a mirage; a castle made of sand. It can't last.

the economy is moving into an Industrial -Military complex.

 

[Pingu]

k bored now


kittens anyone?

keep it on topic so will need to be kittens in tin foil hats waving bundles of cash

 

[zArk]

do you actually know anything at all about how banking works?


fuck...

even that AR<random number> more sense than this

ermm i understand it fully.

If those banks trade uk pounds stirling and that money is printed, issued and owed to the Bank of England - they are subsideries

money is a commodity. The BoE produces money. That is its function.

real example

interest rate BoE= 4.5%
mortgage rate = 6.5%

they are taking a cut of 2%.

Your mortgage makes up 83% of the national debt.