Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Could it be that Trump has a problem dealing with powerful, confident, well-educated and well-informed women?
The Trump presidency
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CRI
Registered Chooser
I'm not being snarky, but when would you say was the brief time in US history when there was working class solidarity - I mean across all working class people, including working class minority ethnic people/
I genuinely don't think it ever was a thing.
As other North American folks and I keep saying, the racial divisions in the US have been and remain far deeper than British folks here seem able to fathom.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Alas, not embarrassing to Trump supporters. I'm already seeing some on social media saying things like he didn't need to show respect for Merkel because she's letting Muslims take over her country.
CRI
Registered Chooser
No worries
I think it's an off shoot of the "two nations divided by a common language" business. Funny thing is Americans have a reputation for assuming everything in the world is like it is in America and seem stunned if they ever travel outside and find out that's not the case. Here though, it seems to be British folk resisting the idea that their former colony can really be as different as it actually is.
coley
Well-Known Member
But, given TTT wasn't elected by even a major proportion of those eligible to vote, aren't those who didn't vote for him, or didn't vote at all! the many who protested by voting third party, those who thought HC has it in the bag, I'm not going to dirty my fingers voting for her.Alas, not embarrassing to Trump supporters. I'm already seeing some on social media saying things like he didn't need to show respect for Merkel because she's letting Muslims take over her country.
Aren't these people now feeling a deep sense of shame at what their actions/passiveness have produced?
CRI
Registered Chooser
CRI
Registered Chooser
Oh yes, I think they are, except maybe the #NeverHillary folks who still think she's to blame for everything, but hey . . .
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Yes. And men too. And children.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Well, if you can afford it . . .
DOOMSDAY PREP FOR THE SUPER-RICH
Survivalism, the practice of preparing for a crackup of civilization, tends to evoke a certain picture: the woodsman in the tinfoil hat, the hysteric with the hoard of beans, the religious doomsayer. But in recent years survivalism has expanded to more affluent quarters, taking root in Silicon Valley and New York City, among technology executives, hedge-fund managers, and others in their economic cohort.
In private Facebook groups, wealthy survivalists swap tips on gas masks, bunkers, and locations safe from the effects of climate change. One member, the head of an investment firm, told me, “I keep a helicopter gassed up all the time, and I have an underground bunker with an air-filtration system.” He said that his preparations probably put him at the “extreme” end among his peers. But he added, “A lot of my friends do the guns and the motorcycles and the gold coins. That’s not too rare anymore.”
Elites Prep for Trumpocalypse: Buying New Zealand Land, Condos in Old Missile Silos
DOOMSDAY PREP FOR THE SUPER-RICH
Survivalism, the practice of preparing for a crackup of civilization, tends to evoke a certain picture: the woodsman in the tinfoil hat, the hysteric with the hoard of beans, the religious doomsayer. But in recent years survivalism has expanded to more affluent quarters, taking root in Silicon Valley and New York City, among technology executives, hedge-fund managers, and others in their economic cohort.
In private Facebook groups, wealthy survivalists swap tips on gas masks, bunkers, and locations safe from the effects of climate change. One member, the head of an investment firm, told me, “I keep a helicopter gassed up all the time, and I have an underground bunker with an air-filtration system.” He said that his preparations probably put him at the “extreme” end among his peers. But he added, “A lot of my friends do the guns and the motorcycles and the gold coins. That’s not too rare anymore.”
Elites Prep for Trumpocalypse: Buying New Zealand Land, Condos in Old Missile Silos
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coley
Well-Known Member
Every time he opens his gob or tweets, everyone with even a modicum of education or decency shudders!
How come he hasn't been replaced?
America today.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Shhhhh, you weren't supposed to mention that here!Thanks for the info, once things go tits up we know where the remaining goodies are located!
See you soon
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Thankfully our Taoiseach didnt completely screw the bowl of shamrock meeting....
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
"Blue collar men like the one in this piece would never vote Sanders. They don't care about, or even oppose expanding social welfare. To them, being on welfare is a shame and they look down on those who are as lazy, greedy and undeserving"
I think it's also important to note, as you're probably aware, that one big reason people who see social welfare programs in action around them and aren't the hugest fans is that they can see how clearly they suck...that they aren't really much to strive for or fall back on. This is not a criticism of the programs, just a factual statement. Welfare programs are a safety net, but they often don't do enough and often punish their recipients in various ways. So, yeah, growing up around that you're not going to think the solution is more social welfare programs.
"looking down on" recipients also comes from a very real fear that they could end up like this, even worse off than they are, chained to these programs with no way out. Like having to settle for an abusive, controlling, and slobby partner. Most people think "it would be better to be single."
I am still a bit puzzled by the feelings about Obamacare though / ACA. I was on it, first as a student, so my health care was completely free, and then as an employed person not offered health care by my employer with a low salary level. I have had full health and dental coverage on both plans.
What I was struck by was how different my experience was of this benefit than of others I had received or witnessed others receiving.
It really exceeded all of my expectations, by far. I thought the pool of doctors might be small and undesirable, forcing me to trek out to rundown areas with worn-down staff and depressing lighting. Romney Care had sort of been like that, though I was glad to be able to have insurance during that time too so I didn't complain.
And yeah, there were some lower quality practices on my list of providers with ACA, but there were many that I never would have expected, like my top-notch dentist that I used to pay in full before the insurance, or my family practice Dr who worked out of his comfy Victorian home and took about 45 minutes (at least) with each patient and truly got to know them, as well as brand new, state of the art clinics and medical centers. No or very small copays, no deductibles for most reasonable things. Free hospital stays.
After I had gotten used to my coverage, hearing stories from friends and family members of how their insurance companies nickel and dimed them into paying for all kinds of stuff, even while they were already paying a lot for insurance, how big the deductibles were, and so on, I was really shocked by how good my middle-tier ACA plan was compared to theirs.
If you want to call ACA a social welfare program, it was in my opinion a Cadillac of social welfare programs. I would gladly pay a proportional amount of my salary for the rest of my life to stay on this plan, regardless of how much money I made.
And while I realize people's experience varied from region to region, from my experience it seemed like a truly well-planned program. One that didn't punish its users for being poor. In fact, one that punished its users far less than private insurance without the program's interference did to people with decent salaries.
So, while I get poorer people not being the champions of a lot of social services, I can't quite wrap my head around this one. I can understand wealthier people who saw their premiums go up being against it. I can see people who felt they were fine not having insurance at all being miffed about being forced into it or having to pay a fine.
Maybe this is what we're starting to see. People did actually like ACA. They just didn't like what it was attached to. They wanted a whole solution. They wanted actual jobs which would just offer them top-notch insurance anyway, that they had earned.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Maybe feelings aren't all that negative. It's apparently low on the priority list.
Voters Rate Jobs Most Important on Trump’s Agenda - Rasmussen Reports™
bimble
floofy
Nice little slip of the tongue there. Trump: " We're a very powerful company, I mean country..'
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
"Nasty woman!"
My that was a cringe making photo session. Trump looked deeply unhappy in his job. Like a little boy at his father's 2nd wedding. Unwilling even to try a handshake. I guess that means he's really going to try to fuck over the ordoliberal, refugee hugging Krauts and their damn fine auto-industry. As with China this may prove more difficult than he expects.
The last one that came close to this was the foul smelling chemistry between Bibi and Obama.
Note the old chair covers.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Netanyahu's left foot is a cloven hoof
"Nasty woman!"
My that was a cringe making photo session. Trump looked deeply unhappy in his job. Like a little boy at his father's 2nd wedding. Unwilling even to try a handshake. I guess that means he's really going to try to fuck over the ordoliberal, refugee hugging Krauts and their damn fine auto-industry. As with China this may prove more difficult than he expects.
The last one that came close to this was the foul smelling chemistry between Bibi and Obama.
Note the old chair covers.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
Notice though they liked Trump's infrastructure stuff and it's those voters who rate this as a priority who are most disapproving. Not much of that in his rampantly neoliberal budget proposal. And so far the much lusted after tax cut is almost all for folk like Trump gaining big benefits with a 2% bone being thrown to his middle class base.
The infrastructure stuff is a big ask as it's not about lack of capital but lack of short term profit in such things. Obama's smaller scale attempt to find shovel ready projects to fund after the financial crisis quickly stalled.
On jobs that is an up hill task. It is not like France US unemployment is near a historic low with ageing demographics and the need for more schooling taking an ever bigger chunk out of the workforce. Trump's base are not often on minimum wage or actually competing with migrant labour that he seems to be deterring. Well paid jobs that don't require an education are what a lot of base want. Tricky in a time where automation is winnowing industrial workers. At the moment we've had a few small scale stunts. Him wanting to bulk up defence spending might lead to some good jobs as might gutting environmental protections. But that's not a given and the results will be both geographically patchy and transient.
On healthcare he promised to extend coverage and make it cheaper but the CBO says Trumpcare will shrink it by 24 million. The GOP are pretty committed to sinking Obamacare but the demographic hurt worst will be rural white males in their 60s who may end up paying more for healthcare than they earn. There's also an assault on Medicare and Medicaid in progress that Trump promised to protect. This loss of vital entitlements can become a very hot issue very quickly.
Trump's a differently able legislator who really is being driven along by corporate interests and establishment Republican preferences. What we have here is a President who ran on a very deceitful ticket of shrinking Big Gubmint while promising the benefits of it and a pony. He's only delivering on the former as he's really no idea how to work The Hill and that's what the politician there will help him do. It will be interesting to see if his eccentric 19th century ideas on trade go the same way.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Most Irish Americans * descend from victims of the Great Famine of 1845/6. About a million people died from starvation and something like 1/4 of the island's population emigrated to survive. Irish Americans make a big deal of their ancestors' plight under British rule - particularly the famine, which was a man-made tragedy caused by British policy in Ireland.
Irish Americans also make a big deal of St Patricks Day - much more than folks do in Ireland itself. Remembering how forebearers suffered and overcame adversity is a big part of that.
The irony here was that someone who's likely an Irish American descendant of famine victims saying famine relief isn't a priority in the budget. It's the ultimate "I'm alright jack" attitude.
* When poor, starving, Catholic Irish people started arriving en masse in the US, the existing population of Irish people, who were descendants of non-conformist Protestants who came from the North of Ireland 50 to 100 years before, started calling themselves "Scots Irish."
CRI
Registered Chooser
You are right - a big part of why many blue collar white folks look down on welfare recipients is fear they could end up like that.
At least since the 80's with Reagan, there's been continual ramping up of the message that welfare recipients are lazy, immoral, greedy, stupid and/or criminal. Maybe it was intended as a disincentive - to scare people into doing anything possible to avoid going on welfare. Maybe it was also to demonise the poorest, making it easier to cut programmes designed to give them a hand up out of poverty. It's also been a handy trope to use when blue collar workers lose their jobs and benefits, or they have to work harder and longer for less. "Hey you may be poor but at least you're not a welfare scrounger." I think that's actually how the term "white trash" became popular. It's a way of denigrating poor white people by labelling them with characteristics associated with black and brown people - laziness, greed, immorality, dishonesty, etc. They're letting the white race down by not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
On the ACA, I wonder if people didn't see it as a social programme, perhaps in part because it still involved private insurance and care from private providers? Do you think the confusion between the ACA (good) and Obama Care (bad) was also a factor in people voting Trump against their interests?
I've heard the mandatory part was a beef for some people - possibly the same people who still refuse to wear seat belts because they "don't like the Government telling them what to do," even if it's for their own benefit.
Hope you get to keep the coverage you have. Also hope more people wise up on this and somehow ACA or some version of it stays.
CRI
Registered Chooser
True!
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