The Queen of the South, Tulse Hill (formerly the White Hart)
- Thread starter Adam Ray
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
discobastard
Well-Known Member
I heard music playing in there the other day. Maybe decorators or something, but something going on inside.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
editor
hiraethified
Having popular nearby pubs can be a positive sometimes as it means you've got already people walking past!
But as you say, those daft lease prices means it's really unlikely to make a go of the place as a traditional pub.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
90% of people that chanced upon the Hart and came in would turn around and go back out again....
Got a bit better when the Golum took over, and then reverted back at the end when the Irish fella had it...
editor
hiraethified
The location is great: on the main drag, right next to a busy station and multiple bus routes with plenty of footfall - but the useless bunch that ran the place actively put people off going in.
I only went the last time just to see if they'd throw me out for standing up. The twats.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The Tulse Hill Hotel has proved it is possible to attract a whole load of new punters to a pub that had for decades previously been a complete dive avoided by the very people who frequent it nowadays. But of course it required a (presumably) very costly refurbishment.
The Hart could quite probably become as popular with a similarly comprehensive reinvention, but as always it’d come down to numbers. I’m still a bit surprised how successful the THH has turned out. I’d be interested to know how much they paid for the lease (or perhaps freehold?) of the building.
IIRC when the Hart was for sale recently the asking price was nearly £2m? Add in the best paid another million at least to make it decent, and the business case must become very difficult. I suspect the THH does pretty well out of its hotel lodgings and gourmet dinner shit but I’m not sure at all the area could support a second such pub.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
If you look at the Railway & Knowles they're much bigger. Perhaps it's just not viable as it is anymore. I was wonder how the Elm Park Tavern runs but perhaps has lower costs. Don't tend to go there anymore because they changed the furniture, floor and put in tiles and now you can't hear what anyone's saying
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
Excellent. Let's hope they can make a success of it and not turn it into a Shoreditch style haunt that they only open when they can be arsed!
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
about time. That pub has sat empty for long enough.
editor
hiraethified
Posted a piece on Buzz: The White Hart public house in Tulse Hill applies for premises licence
You can lend your support to the application here 20/00101/PRMNEW | Premises Licence (new application) | Pending Decision | The White Hart 367 Norwood Road London SE27 9BQ
You can lend your support to the application here 20/00101/PRMNEW | Premises Licence (new application) | Pending Decision | The White Hart 367 Norwood Road London SE27 9BQ
editor
hiraethified
I've unearthed an obscure fact too - American alternative rock band Galaxie 500 played their first UK show at the White Hart!
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twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
Amazing!
BusLanes
Pedestrian
If you look at the Railway & Knowles they're much bigger. Perhaps it's just not viable as it is anymore. I was wonder how the Elm Park Tavern runs but perhaps has lower costs. Don't tend to go there anymore because they changed the furniture, floor and put in tiles and now you can't hear what anyone's saying
Elm Park is on its second owners since it reopened. The current lot seem more like the normal pub landlords than the King & Co hipsters (I like both). Seems busy enough but then I guess it's hard to know if that means profitable enough
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
I was in the King and Co once and overheard the bearded bellend who runs it whingeing that the Elm Park patrons wouldnt buy their fancy, expensive craft beer. Made me quite glad that it didnt work out for them.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Great news it appears the White Hart is on its way back.
Unless anything has changed in the past two years, the building itself is owned by a family rather than any big firm. They wanted to rent it out for around £70k - £90k per year (can't remember the exact figure) which I thought was quite a lot, given the size - or sell it for around £2.5m. Could have been vulnerable, so good to hear a pub is the plan.
I've been inside the upstairs and cellar etc. It does need some work/investment. There's big rooms upstiars which could be used for B&B or for staff to live there. There's an upstairs kitchen (on the small side) so food is a possibility. There's even a small roof terrace, though I'm not sure they could open it to the public unless they did a bit of safety work.
Given the apparent costs involved, I'm not expecting a straight replacement for the White Hart - a locals pub with cheapish beer, sports on the telly etc.
Whatever it's like, I imagine they would take some trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel, because it's right outside the station and much easier to get to without crossing loads of busy roads.
Unless anything has changed in the past two years, the building itself is owned by a family rather than any big firm. They wanted to rent it out for around £70k - £90k per year (can't remember the exact figure) which I thought was quite a lot, given the size - or sell it for around £2.5m. Could have been vulnerable, so good to hear a pub is the plan.
I've been inside the upstairs and cellar etc. It does need some work/investment. There's big rooms upstiars which could be used for B&B or for staff to live there. There's an upstairs kitchen (on the small side) so food is a possibility. There's even a small roof terrace, though I'm not sure they could open it to the public unless they did a bit of safety work.
Given the apparent costs involved, I'm not expecting a straight replacement for the White Hart - a locals pub with cheapish beer, sports on the telly etc.
Whatever it's like, I imagine they would take some trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel, because it's right outside the station and much easier to get to without crossing loads of busy roads.
editor
hiraethified
I suspect that it will take trade off the Tulse Hill Tavern too, but the Railway will be fine: they've got a really loyal crowd and have a unique offering.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Just read the planning application, which does describe the business as a "gastropub".
2am licence
Major refurb inside.
Possible change of name to the "Queen of the South".
And the individual named in the application is the landlord of the Prince of Peckham. .
2am licence
Major refurb inside.
Possible change of name to the "Queen of the South".
And the individual named in the application is the landlord of the Prince of Peckham. .
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
Does any pub do the decent thing these days, and let their staff live above the pub for free/peppercorn rent? Id have thought in London, that would be the last thing on their minds, and would rent out the rooms at 'market value' to subsidise the pubs income.
Probably if they can’t be bothered to refurbish/soundproof/make safe & comply with H&S and HMO regs they’ll punt them out to staff.
ska invita
back on the other side
In which case I think there'll be music and dancing on some level
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The only way it would take any trade off the Tulse Hill Hotel is if it's given the full gentrification treatment. The type of demographics you see at the THH are not going to switch- or even ocassionally patronise- any other pub that is not broadly similar.
ska invita
back on the other side
From my expereince of going there Prince of Peckham has done the miraculous - its a smart modern pub welcoming to all that has kept the locals in, and has kept its BAME punters.
Hard to know how its done that - partly through its music policy perhaps - but whatever it is, it bodes pretty well for the White Hart
compare with the incarnation of that pub before that: some people from Upper Street who came down, "smartened" it and had to shut within a year or two (i forget how long now)
Hard to know how its done that - partly through its music policy perhaps - but whatever it is, it bodes pretty well for the White Hart
compare with the incarnation of that pub before that: some people from Upper Street who came down, "smartened" it and had to shut within a year or two (i forget how long now)
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
If its owned by the people who run the Prince of Peckham, then it probably be more like the Railway than the Tulse Hill Hotel. Think bottomless brunches, music events and an all day food offering, but not likely to be particularly 'gastro'. Oh and your standard around the £5 mark pints which are all the rage in pubs in London these days.
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
the owner is a Peckham local who was keen to include all of the community, rather than just the hipster crowd, according to this article:
About Time You Met: Clement Ogbonnaya, Founder of Prince of Peckham - About Time Magazine
Prince of Peckham opened just under a year ago and brings together the cultural values of South London whilst incorporating the traditional values of a great boozer. With the local community at the forefront, Prince of Peckham holds a range of regular events
www.abouttimemagazine.co.uk
