The megadeaths of Liberalism

[Johnny Canuck3]

For the longest time, 'liberalism' meant roughly this, also taken from wikipedia

Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom")[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutions, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, capitalism, free trade, and the freedom of religion.[3][4][5][6][7] These ideas are widely accepted, even by political groups that do not openly profess a liberal ideological orientation. Liberalism encompasses several intellectual trends and traditions, but the dominant variants are classical liberalism, which became popular in the eighteenth century, and social liberalism, which became popular in the twentieth century.

Liberalism first became a powerful force in the Age of Enlightenment, rejecting several foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as hereditary status, established religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John Locke, who is often credited for the creation of liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition, employed the concept of natural rights and the social contract to argue that the rule of law should replace absolutism in government, that rulers were subject to the consent of the governed, and that private individuals had a fundamental right to life, liberty, and property.

The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical rule.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

There's nothing wrong with a handy name for an approach within capitalism that is based on new conditions and new tactics. What point do you think you're making?

Which approach within capitalism is 'new'?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

And, what conditions are 'new'? I think the term, 'nothing new under the sun', is actually true.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Iraq - the two wars, the sanctions and the occupation must account for a couple of million.

 

[Dillinger4]

This is why using wikipedia as your primary reference doesn't help you or anybody else.

 

[butchersapron]

Which approach within capitalism is 'new'?

Gretaer emphasis on financialisation rather than productive investment, decentralisation of industry, massive capital mobility, flexibility, attacks on the social wage, credit, - and so on. You've lived through all these changes - did you not notice them? I ask again, what point are you making? Let's have some substance instead of this ill informed wiki-pedantry.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think 'neoliberalism' is another new catchphrase used mostly by those without a lot of understanding of politics and/or economics, to describe anything that they perceive as negative, or upon which to blame anything negative. That isn't to say that there aren't academics who have written about it - my description is about those who have taken the ball and are running with it, without knowing whether what they're carrying is in fact a football, or a trussed-up piglet.

 

[Dillinger4]

I think 'neoliberalism' is another new catchphrase

It isn't.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Gretaer emphasis on financialisation rather than productive investment, decentralisation of industry, massive capital mobility, flexibility, attacks on the social wage, credit, - and so on. You've lived through all these changes - did you not notice them? I ask again, what point are you making? Let's have some substance instead of this ill informed wiki-pedantry.

What happened, is that corporations got large enough that they were able to respond to what they saw as restrictive government control and taxation, by relocating their production to countries, often in the Third World, where the taxes and controls were lesser and lax. I don't think that this represents any fundamental change in capitalism - companies have always sought ways to avoid taxation and external control. What is different is the scale, made possible imo by advances in communication etc.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Iraq - the two wars, the sanctions and the occupation must account for a couple of million.

because.... 'neoliberalism' is the source of everything bad. Having a convenient catchphrase relieves people of the hard work of doing a lot of learning in order to attempt to understand the complexity of human affairs.

 

[Blagsta]

I've read a little of it, also lived the past few decades. It's the rebranding of old concepts with new terminology that perplexes me.

 

[Idris2002]

because.... 'neoliberalism' is the source of everything bad. Having a convenient catchphrase relieves people of the hard work of doing a lot of learning in order to attempt to understand the complexity of human affairs.

I think you'll find that a lot of people on this thread have done exactly that - the hard work of understanding the complexity of human affairs.

 

[Blagsta]

I think 'neoliberalism' is another new catchphrase used mostly by those without a lot of understanding of politics and/or economics, to describe anything that they perceive as negative, or upon which to blame anything negative. That isn't to say that there aren't academics who have written about it - my description is about those who have taken the ball and are running with it, without knowing whether what they're carrying is in fact a football, or a trussed-up piglet.

That'll be because you're ignorant and get your info solely from Wikipedia.

 

[Fruitloop]

Professional derailing action.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think you'll find that a lot of people on this thread have done exactly that - the hard work of understanding the complexity of human affairs.

Why are my taxes going up? Neoliberalism.

Why are people fighting in Sudan: Neoliberalism.

Why are people starving in North Korea? Neoliberalism.

Go back two hundred years.


Why aren't my crops growing? Witchcraft.

Why did I get the flu? Witchcraft.

Why was my kid born with six fingers? Witchcraft.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That'll be because you're ignorant and get your info solely from Wikipedia.

You can read me like a book, can't you?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Professional derailing action.

Sorry: let's get back to business.

Two hundredf dolphins dead on the coast of California, thanks to neoliberalism.

 

[Blagsta]

You can read me like a book, can't you?

Yep.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yep.

Question is, can I play you like a fiddle?

 

[frogwoman]

Ireland in the 1840s.

 

[DotCommunist]

fuck it- I'll wiki a response first.

 

[Random]

I think 'neoliberalism' is another new catchphrase used mostly by those without a lot of understanding of politics and/or economics, to describe anything that they perceive as negative, or upon which to blame anything negative.

Thank you for your contribution. No point responding to you, though, as you're just airing some beliefs rather than trying to construct a fact-based argument.

On with the thread!

 

[Random]

beg pardon,but why?

I thought it would make it a better counterpart to the 'megadeaths of Communism' figures mentioned in the OP, and to stop the definition of liberalism also trailing off into the French revolution and Napoleonic wars, etc.

 

[audiotech]

The financial crisis of 2008-09 reduced neoliberalism to a busted flush. Despite that the debt crisis is perceived in certain quarters as an opportunity to further roll back past gains made - working class living standards driven down. That will mean yet more attacks on workers leading to further restrictions on labour. The rate of exploitation intensified using patriotism of balancing the nation’s books. Hence the "We are all in this together" message.

The irrational of all this is that the capitalist class, by their own economic madness, not only effects the majority of the population, but runs counter to even their own interests.

What the noted Financial Times columnist, Martin Wolf, colourfully called the “risk” of the “mother of all meltdowns” has not gone away. Determined to exploit the debt crisis, the bourgeoisie appears not to see the dangers. Not only might the cuts trigger a double-dip recession, but there is also the likelihood of a social explosion. Greece, Spain and France have already seen protest general strikes. Surely only a hint of things to come. The bourgeoisie has abandoned its old Keynesian methods of managing capitalism’s decline in a relatively civilised manner. As a class it remembers the 1940s-70s and is agreed - never again. However, the austerity consensus objectively puts revolution and the necessity of socialism back on to the agenda. Do the bourgeoisie really want to be hung up on lampposts?

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004328

 

[rekil]

Al-Jaz docu about a docu on the slaughter of Indonesian communists says up to 3 million killed.

It was one of the bloodiest massacres of the 20th century, well hidden from the outside world - the systematic killing of communists or alleged communists in Indonesia in 1965 and 1966. Researchers estimate that between one and three million people died.

Never before have the executioners spoken out in as much detail as in the recently-released documentary The Act of Killing. In this film, killers in North Sumatra give horrifying accounts of their executions, and even re-enact them.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Cheers for that.

 

[DownwardDog]

RIP Rinka.

 

[butchersapron]

Al-Jaz docu about a docu on the slaughter of Indonesian communists says up to 3 million killed.

The AWL of all people did a great series in their mag Workers Liberty on this (well on Indonesian Communism,) about 10 years ago.

 

[butchersapron]

RIP Rinka.

The death of one dog is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.

 

[peterkro]

Several times that iirc. Plus millions in korea

I think the best estimate is around 5million.