Taliban to teach Islamist family values in Afghan

[Aldebaran]

I think most people reading this would find your statements illogical.

I think most people reading my posts while understanding what I mean would ifnd them very logical.

If there is resources to educate some boys then there is resources for girls to be educated at the expense of half the boys.

Hence at the expense of half the future men who can't escape the fact that they are solely responsible for the income of their future family.

You do not make sense.

I make sense to anyone who can see further then personal views about an issue they don't connect with.

salaam.

 

[exosculate]

I think most people reading my posts while understanding what I mean would ifnd them very logical.



Hence at the expense of half the future men who can't escape the fact that they are solely responsible for the income of their future family.



I make sense to anyone who can see further then personal views about an issue they don't connect with.

salaam.

You make artificial distinctions between men and women, and as I say are very illogical.

 

[Aldebaran]

You make artificial distinctions between men and women, and as I say are very illogical.

Not at all (the Taliban do, which is in violation of the very teachings of Al Qur'an, hence in violation of Islamic commands) and you have no clue what you are talking about.
Speaking of being illogical... In addition of your comments on what you know nothing about, you start to comment on the commentator who does know what he talks about, instead of reflecting on what I explained.

salaam.

 

[DrRingDing]

Not at all (the Taliban do, which is in violation of the very teachings of Al Qur'an, hence in violation of Islamic commands) and you have no clue what you are talking about.

Not really true is it?

The Qur'an says if a women gets 'high handed' you should ignore her in bed and slap her.

Do you agree with this?

 

[Aldebaran]

No it doesn't, it gives instructions how to deal with marital disagreement and it does not instruct to "slap" a woman.
It *is* a critical point of discussion though. The verb used (surat an-nisaa' - IV,34) stemming from the root drb has 100 + possible meanings. It is a discussion that can easily be solved though, because to give it the meaning "to beat" is in clear opposition with the entire Message of Al Qur'an.

salaam.

 

[DrRingDing]

No it doesn't, it gives instructions how to deal with marital disagreement and it does not instruct to "slap" a woman.

If you fear high-handedness from your wives remind them, then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them.

From the most righteous Qur'an 4:34

 

[DrRingDing]

It *is* a critical point of discussion though. The verb used (surat an-nisaa' - IV,34) stemming from the root drb has 100 + possible meanings.

This is Abdel Haleem's translation.

Do we need to go through more sexist and oppresive shite the qur'an spouts?

 

[Aldebaran]

A translation is only that: a translation, which is no more then an attempt to give the meaning of the original.
In this case the translator chose to go with an interpretation that goes directly against mine.
I can give a dry lecture on the verb form used to have this translation and on the verb form in which it should be, but I don't think this to be the place for it. (Classical Arabic knows up to 15 verb forms, amount of forms depending the verb.)
Like I said, this particular line *is* a point of discussion among scholars since the beginning of Quranic exegesis(Ar. tafsir) yet it *is* easy to solve since an interpretation like the one you give goes directly against the meaning of the whole Message. Gender equality is part of that message.

If you want to open a thread on Al Qur'an, you are free to do so. If you want me to comment in it, I say in advance I do not waste time on incomplete texts out of context and which often enough pass for "quotes " on some websites.

salaam.

 

[DrRingDing]

A translation is only that: a translation, which is no more then an attempt to give the meaning of the original.

So you believe you are a greater authority than Abdel Haleem?

 

[DrRingDing]

Gender equality is part of that message.

I've just been flicking through the section on women and it is far from spouting equality of the sexes.

 

[rioted]

You clearly confuse providing for a touch of realistic insight about an issue with defence of what you might find wrong about it.

Now there's a thought.

 

[DexterTCN]

This is Abdel Haleem's translation.

Do we need to go through more sexist and oppresive shite the qur'an spouts?

Compared to what? The Bible?

I think the Afghani education problems would be helped if we stopped killing them. The more extreme schools of religion, of which most types of fundamentalism (which originated in the US) are, merely grow when a nation/region/community is attacked from outside.

It's a bit fucking hypocritical to say you want girls educated the same as boys when you don't mention we're killing them daily. Basically.

 

[DrRingDing]

It's a bit fucking hypocritical to say you want girls educated the same as boys when you don't mention we're killing them daily. Basically.

For an arguement to be valid against fundamentalist islam do I really have to end it with '...and we're cunts for bombing the kids'

 

[derf]

Honestly, I'm getting a bit tired of these arrogant demonstrations of Western hypocrisy.

Maybe it is time to make a thread titled:

The West to teach Western values in Afghanistan and Iraq.

salaam.

I can't agree with extremist views of any sort but there is much good to be found in Islam.
It's not the evil that some would like to make out.

Peace to all

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It can be described as realistic thinking in a country where the economy is non-existent, hence jobs are as good as not available, let alone created and where on top of that it is a traditional and religious family value that mothers raise their own children instead of dropping them off by others in order to have the possiblity to enter and stay on the job market. This being very often a necessity in Capitalist based societies, where one income doesn't suffice anymore to buy whatever Capitalism lures consumers into buying, or even to pay for the basics.

salaam.

OK, but why can't they vote, own property, etc?

As for the Afghan economy, it's tough to reconstruct an infrastructure and economy when the Taliban does all it can to sabotage those efforts.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Of course it is, yet in the current situation in Afghanistan less to nothing can be done about it. Hence it is a lesser of all evils to get at least boys, who both traditionally and religiously *have* to solely provide for family income, a form of education.

salaam.

But the govt schools that the Taliban was/are destroying, educated both boys and girls.

If the Taliban has the resources only to educate boys, then maybe they should leave off and let someone more capable do the job.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Not at all (the Taliban do, which is in violation of the very teachings of Al Qur'an, hence in violation of Islamic commands) and you have no clue what you are talking about. .

But if the Koran allows multiple marriage [ie one man, more than one woman, but not vice versa], isn't it by definition institutionalizing inequality?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No it doesn't, it gives instructions how to deal with marital disagreement and it does not instruct to "slap" a woman.
It *is* a critical point of discussion though. The verb used (surat an-nisaa' - IV,34) stemming from the root drb has 100 + possible meanings. .

How has it commonly been interpreted by non-scholars?

 

[dylanredefined]

Educating woman improves the health and wealth of the community more than just educating boys . I understand your argument Alderbaran I just see it as wrong.

 

[exosculate]

Educating woman improves the health and wealth of the community more than just educating boys . I understand your argument Alderbaran I just see it as wrong.

You understand what argument? Is there an argument to understand? Would be very pleased if you could explain it to me. i thought it was just an apologist speaking!

 

[dylanredefined]

He is saying with limited resources teach the boys as they will be the bread winners as easier for the males to get work in the sexist place that is afgan.
Logical but bollocks no reason women cant get jobs or start small businesses and even if they aren't in paid employment a woman who can read and write is more likely to be able to understand health care information
so everyone in her family stays healthier .And understand her rights and challange male heirachy.No wonder the taliban burn schools and kill teachers.
Having women with a voice must scare the crap out of them .

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It can be described as realistic thinking in a country where the economy is non-existent, hence jobs are as good as not available, .....

salaam.

That situation certainly isn't going to be improved by destroying 200 schools and killing teachers. You have to build and maintain infrastructure to obtain a decent economy and jobs. Thats a huge amount of resources that went to waste.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That situation certainly isn't going to be improved by destroying 200 schools and killing teachers. You have to build and maintain infrastructure to obtain a decent economy and jobs. Thats a huge amount of resources that went to waste.

The Taliban destroying schools, then saying there's limited resources for education, reminds me of the guy who kills his parents, then asks the court for leniency, because he's an orphan.