Starbucks coming to Brixton

[kyser_soze]

Sadly no, I work up and Ladbroke Grove and usually loaf in the house for lunch if I have a day off.

My comment was half serious, half pisstake, partly owing to the general levels of preciousness sometimes displayed re: Brixton food sometimes...

 

[tarannau]

Seems daft as a slur really. You'd have been on safer and more informed ground elsewhere.


I don't think that many have been 'precious' on this thread to be fair. There's some 'red rag' dismissive stuff from JC which ain't exactly helping too.

 

[co-op]

Naomi klein? Words fail me here. Surely she was discredited even amongst the most foolish years ago? How much did ms Klein make from royalties on that title?

Maybe I'm a bit too foolish to get it but I think she's written some pretty intelligent stuff since No Logo (which I've never read).

How's she been "discredited"?

 

[kyser_soze]

Well, I'd argue that on a high street with a JD Sports, M&S, KFC, McDs, Carphone Warehouse, Sainsbury, H&M, T-Mobile Store, Footlocker & Specsavers that the whole premise of this thread is precious.

 

[co-op]

Anything other than ad hominems?

Or ad feminam in the case of Klein.

 

[tbaldwin]

Maybe I'm a bit too foolish to get it but I think she's written some pretty intelligent stuff since No Logo (which I've never read).

How's she been "discredited"?

The book was published by Harper Collins.

 

[kabbes]

Starbucks financial muscle is surely somewhat irrelevant when it comes to what rent the store can afford? Each store has to be able to make a profit by itself. If an independent can't make sufficient profit to justify that rent level then I don't see how Starbucks will be able to either (and vice versa).

 

[editor]

Maybe I'm a bit too foolish to get it but I think she's written some pretty intelligent stuff since No Logo (which I've never read).

How's she been "discredited"?

I'm not familiar with any of her other work, so after gabi's damning comment I looked her up on t'internet.

I couldn't find any widespread condemnation of her "discredited" writings then or since, so hopefully gabi will show us some examples. There was some recent controversy about her criticism of Israeli policies, but all I could generally find was rather positive stuff like:

Klein ranked 11th in an internet poll of the top global intellectuals of 2005, a list of the world's top 100 public intellectuals compiled by the Prospect magazine in conjunction with Foreign Policy magazine...

The publication of The Shock Doctrine increased Klein's prominence, with the New Yorker judging her "the most visible and influential figure on the American left—what Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky were thirty years ago." On February 24, 2009, the book was awarded the inaugural Warwick Prize for Writing from the University of Warwick in England.

And as for gabi's dismissive comment on her earnings:

In 2002 Klein published Fences and Windows, a collection of her articles and speeches written on behalf of the anti-globalization movement (all proceeds from the book go to benefit activist organizations through The Fences and Windows Fund).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein

 

[kyser_soze]

Starbucks are known to use loss leader tactics in some areas in order to drive out local competition, at which time the loss making shop is closed and moved to cheaper rents, having hoovered up all the local trade.

 

[co-op]

The book was published by Harper Collins.

Tbh I think it's just about impossible to distribute globally without using corporate scum these days.

 

[editor]

Starbucks financial muscle is surely somewhat irrelevant when it comes to what rent the store can afford? Each store has to be able to make a profit by itself. If an independent can't make sufficient profit to justify that rent level then I don't see how Starbucks will be able to either (and vice versa).

Big corporate chains can afford to run at a loss for as long as it takes to achive their objectives. It's rarely an option for small businesses.

 

[kyser_soze]

She actually makes a point about that in No Logo IIRC. Can't remember what it was exactly, but she does address the basic issue of an anti-cap being published by Murdoch.

 

[co-op]

I'm not familiar with any of her other work, so after gabi's damning comment I looked her up on t'internet.

I couldn't find any widespread condemnation of her "discredited" writings then or since, so hopefully gabi will show us some examples. There was some recent controversy about her criticism of Israeli policies, but all I could generally find was rather positive stuff like:

The Shock Doctrine is a very smart book imo (whereas I mst admit I ducked No Logo because I thought it looked a bit obvious). I'd really recommend it.

 

[kabbes]

Right, so eventually moving to a place that's cheaper to rent is a critically important part of the corporate strategy? Because otherwise, you're operating at a loss for ever, right?

So a genuine question -- has anybody noticed this for real? I can think of a fuckton of Starbucks, like most people can, I should imagine, but they're all still exactly where they started.

 

[editor]

She actually makes a point about that in No Logo IIRC. Can't remember what it was exactly, but she does address the basic issue of an anti-cap being published by Murdoch.

Her family score max Leftie cred points too

And Klein seems perfectly placed to offer answers, since the history of her family is like a history of the Left.

Philip Klein, her grandfather, was an animator at Disney, and organised the first strike there, as a result of which he was sacked and blacklisted. He taught her to 'always look for the dirt behind the shine'.

Her parents left the United States in protest against the Vietnam war...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/nov/12/globalisation.politicsphilosophyandsociety

 

[grit]

Starbucks are known to use loss leader tactics in some areas in order to drive out local competition, at which time the loss making shop is closed and moved to cheaper rents, having hoovered up all the local trade.

How when in general they are more expensive then their competitors?

 

[editor]

How when in general they are more expensive then their competitors?

Brand power, no? And maybe faster service with extra staff hired in at a loss?

 

[grit]

Brand power, no? And maybe faster service with extra staff hired in at a loss?

Thats not loss leader, and considering each is treated as a separate business unit I've never come across them having too much staff. In fact anytime I'm in one I feel sorry for the poor fuckers serving me. There are also plenty of thriving cafe's in close proximity to any of the starbucks in my area.

I'm not surprised the staff of San Marino laughed, its a different business model that doesnt attempt to unfairly compete with them.

 

[kyser_soze]

Right, so eventually moving to a place that's cheaper to rent is a critically important part of the corporate strategy? Because otherwise, you're operating at a loss for ever, right?

So a genuine question -- has anybody noticed this for real? I can think of a fuckton of Starbucks, like most people can, I should imagine, but they're all still exactly where they started.

AFAIK they only really did it in the US where there were more shenanigans regarding things like business rates with local authorities involved. Plus as a tactic it only really works where there's either a very high or very low density of population - e.g. in a small town with one or two other cafés, or somewhere like Westminster or The City (both of which have successfully managed to maintain independent traders as well as 'bucks).

 

[Pie 1]

I just popped in to see them in their new place - which is great!

Had a chat and they were not worried at all about SB. Actually laughed. They said their coffee is better and cheaper and they are confident that they have a regular loyal customer base.

 

[Sesquipedalian]

I think the new SB will tap into the commuters using transport exchange hub in a way that other local coffee shops do not. Commuters want to get home. They don't tend to head off the beaten track to get a coffee. There's not alot catering for them in the direct walk between BR, the tube and bus stops south of the railway bridge. I imagine that there is quite a lot of commuter demand that is not being met and that SB will pick this up with minimum detriment to other shops.

I also imagine that if Brixton residents heading to the tube in the morning are in the habit of buying coffee from a local store they will continue to do so. Unless they think SB has a better product or perhaps a shorter queue. In which case that is fair competition. I am fairly sure that SB will be more expensive than most local offerings so I doubt it will be a choice made on price.

Excellent post.

(Apart from the bit in bold.)

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Big corporate chains can afford to run at a loss for as long as it takes to achive their objectives. It's rarely an option for small businesses.

Brand power, no? And maybe faster service with extra staff hired in at a loss?

One last thing. A large company probably could afford to run a location at a loss indefinitely, but it's unlikely to do so. Each location will have a business plan, forecasts etc, and it it doesn't come within the plan, it will be closed. With over 200 locations in Greater London, penetration of the Brixton market probably isn't all that critical.

Wages at coffee shops usually hover at or just above minimum wage, so Starbucks will find it difficult to undercut the competition on wages.

It's also been mentioned that Starbucks can afford to undersell the product as a loss leader to build up a clientele. I've never seen, nor am I aware of, a situation where a starbucks location new or old has sold outside of the prescribed pricing structure. Uniformity is one of the virtues of the multioutlet operation, and starbucks seems to follow it scrupulously.

As for buying power due to economies of scale, Starbucks has large buying power. Small independents defray that advantage by using large wholesaling companies to provide their food ingredients etc. In essence, it's like a buying cooperative made up of many independents, which allows the same economies of scale to operate. The biggest of these locally is called Sysco Corp., and I'd be very surprised if there weren't similar companies operating in UK.

http://www.sysco.com/

 

[playghirl]

San Marino is looking resplendent this morning with its smart black and white branded canvas 'fence' surrounding the outdoor tables and chairs. With its new location I think it will do very well this summer.

I make a point of travelling out of my way so I can get their coffee in Brixton. I like them.

 

[Sesquipedalian]

I make a point of travelling out of my way so I can get their coffee in Brixton. I like them.

Do you not think the staff,
Are a bit............?

Even with the regulars ?

 

[Greenfish]

Starbucks in Brixton

Anyone see that in The South London Press?

Apparently it is already being built and prepared to open next door to the Tube.

What do people think about a starbucks in Brixton?

 

[Tolpuddle]

Makes one feel one has fucking arrived. One will increase mortgage for the privilage. Any chance it will bomb? are they franchises???

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I really miss the caff by the side of the tube that used to be run by the people who run the flower stall. They got moved out but were promised they could move back after the TFL building work. They were lied to.

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

^That makes me a bit sad as I like the flower stall people.
Another good reason not to go to starbucks then.

 

[oryx]

Aren't Starbucks notorious for negotiating with property developers and landlords and forcing out small, independent coffee bars?

I'm not in Brixton all that often these days but when I am I certainly won't be frequenting Starbucks - (also because their coffee is vile IMHO).

 

[Belushi]

Aren't Starbucks notorious for negotiating with property developers and landlords and forcing out small, independent coffee bars?

I'm not in Brixton all that often these days but when I am I certainly won't be frequenting Starbucks - (also because their coffee is vile IMHO).

Yep, their mo is to flood an area with branches forcing independent coffee shops out of business and then shutting down most of the branches they've opened.

And their Coffee is rank.