South Wales Metro System - ambitious plans detailed

[editor]

Would there be the passenger numbers to support that?

Once this crisis is over, yes, I'd imagine so. And it's not a tram system anyway.

 

[kebabking]

Some of that stuff is magic unicorns rubbish - the Carmarthen/Aberystwyth line has been brought up many times before and has never been a runner, and the North-South line would be astonishingly expensive to contstruct, and while it would get some holiday/tourist traffic (and I'd love to go on it) it would get very little regular traffic north of Builth.

The North-South problem isn't one of transport infrastructure, it's the lack of people and economy in the middle of them to use the transport infrastructure - the Great Green Desert meme isn't quite true, but it's true enough to mean that these projects are doomed to hit the sand without an accompanying strategy to bring people and jobs into mid-wales.

 

[editor]

Some of that stuff is magic unicorns rubbish - the Carmarthen/Aberystwyth line has been brought up many times before and has never been a runner, and the North-South line would be astonishingly expensive to contstruct, and while it would get some holiday/tourist traffic (and I'd love to go on it) it would get very little regular traffic north of Builth.

The North-South problem isn't one of transport infrastructure, it's the lack of people and economy in the middle of them to use the transport infrastructure - the Great Green Desert meme isn't quite true, but it's true enough to mean that these projects are doomed to hit the sand without an accompanying strategy to bring people and jobs into mid-wales.

Oh yes - some of the stuff is definitely pie in the sky, but to be honest I though Sass was responding to my last post!

 

[Crispy]

Would there be the passenger numbers to support that?

Anyone who is considering creating transport infrastructure would do well to have a look a look at the problems the Edinburgh scheme faced.

That said, the bit of the Edinburgh tram system that does exist seems to be well used.

Profitable after just two years, then way ahead of projections 2 years after that, with extensions now under construction.

ANNUAL ACCOUNTS

A winning combination of rising customer numbers, 99 per cent reliability and industry-leading customer service has seen Edinburgh Trams exceed all financial expectations, recording a pre-tax operating profit of £1.6m. Results published today (22 June) show revenue grew by 24 per cent in 2017...

edinburghtrams.com

Build it and they will come.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Profitable after just two years, then way ahead of projections 2 years after that, with extensions now under construction.

ANNUAL ACCOUNTS

A winning combination of rising customer numbers, 99 per cent reliability and industry-leading customer service has seen Edinburgh Trams exceed all financial expectations, recording a pre-tax operating profit of £1.6m. Results published today (22 June) show revenue grew by 24 per cent in 2017...

edinburghtrams.com

Build it and they will come.

Yes indeed.

The building process was painful though, years over on time and double in cost. Edinburgh Trams - Wikipedia

The extensions are good news, hopefully lessons have been learned from phase 1.

The inquiry into what went wrong has now been running for six years, the same time as it took to build it. When is the last stop for the tram inquiry?

A big part of the problems with the initial line were undocumented service ducts. Electricity, gas, water, telephone and sewage lines ran across streets, and there was no record of where they were. Dealing with them caused a great deal of the delay.

Sadly, I don't use the trams because only Edinburgh resident's 'bus passes' work on them. Passes issued by other Councils don't work.

 

[Gromit]

The North-South problem isn't one of transport infrastructure, it's the lack of people and economy in the middle of them to use the transport infrastructure - the Great Green Desert meme isn't quite true, but it's true enough to mean that these projects are doomed to hit the sand without an accompanying strategy to bring people and jobs into mid-wales.

Its chicken and egg. The M4 has become seriously congested because of the various businesses and housing estates etc. that have been sold on the USP of "close to the M4".

If there was a fast motorway through mid wales (to England's motorway network) then new business sites would begin to take interest in the region. Until then they'll continue to cuddle the M4 and the A55.

Then eventually the next step would be to link North and south to this central motorway.

In my opinion.

 

[ddraig]

Yay
Announcement tomorrow
Transport for Wales Rail services 'set to be nationalised'

Transport for Wales rail services to be nationalised

Ministers step in to "stabilise the network and keep it running" as income plummets due to Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ddraig]

.

 

[nogojones]

Yay
Announcement tomorrow
Transport for Wales Rail services 'set to be nationalised'

Transport for Wales rail services to be nationalised

Ministers step in to "stabilise the network and keep it running" as income plummets due to Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

I've not read the details, but are they just taking this on during covid, then handing them back?

 

[ddraig]

I've not read the details, but are they just taking this on during covid, then handing them back?

Not noticed it said that, hope not
They are involved in some way still

part of the original agreement is staying - Amey Keolis Infrastructure Ltd will continue to be responsible for infrastructure on the Core Valley Lines, where the South Wales Metro upgrade is taking place.

Keolis and Amey will also work with the Welsh Government quango Transport for Wales on improvements to the service - like rolling stock and ticketing.

 

[meurig]

Its chicken and egg. The M4 has become seriously congested because of the various businesses and housing estates etc. that have been sold on the USP of "close to the M4".

If there was a fast motorway through mid wales (to England's motorway network) then new business sites would begin to take interest in the region. Until then they'll continue to cuddle the M4 and the A55.

Then eventually the next step would be to link North and south to this central motorway.

In my opinion.

Wow Gromit - I've often thought of this myself!

 

[1927]

Its chicken and egg. The M4 has become seriously congested because of the various businesses and housing estates etc. that have been sold on the USP of "close to the M4".

If there was a fast motorway through mid wales (to England's motorway network) then new business sites would begin to take interest in the region. Until then they'll continue to cuddle the M4 and the A55.

Then eventually the next step would be to link North and south to this central motorway.

In my opinion.

We've got enough trouble trying to get a bypass for Newport, theres no chance of a mid wales or north
south motorway happening.

 

[Gromit]

We've got enough trouble trying to get a bypass for Newport, theres no chance of a mid wales or north
south motorway happening.

I know.
To get major infrastructure investment it has to benefit London somehow.
Wales getting such tributaries would take potential investment from English locations.
The so called British government will never invest heavily in Wales in such a fashion.
Improving existing routes to London yes.
New stuff. No.

 

[1927]

I know.
To get major infrastructure investment it has to benefit London somehow.
Wales getting such tributaries would take potential investment from English locations.
The so called British government will never invest heavily in Wales in such a fashion.
Improving existing routes to London yes.
New stuff. No.

The cancellation of Newport by pass was all Drakeford’s doing. We can’t blame Westminster for that one.

 

[meurig]

We've got enough trouble trying to get a bypass for Newport, theres no chance of a mid wales or north
south motorway happening.

Just a dual carriageway would be nice

 

[ddraig]

Any new roads get filled up pdq
Public transport needs investment and expansion

 

[editor]

We've still got shitty Pacers!

Scrapped in Tehran but still running in Wales: 'Disgrace' as Pacer trains given another extension

The Welsh Liberal Democrats have branded as a “disgrace” a decision to keep pacer trains on in Wales for another year – noting that they were scrapped in Tehran 15 years ago. Wales is now the only place on earth where pacer trains, built by British Rail in the early 1980s with a planned lifespan […]

nation.cymru

 

[davesgcr]

We've still got shitty Pacers!

Scrapped in Tehran but still running in Wales: 'Disgrace' as Pacer trains given another extension

The Welsh Liberal Democrats have branded as a “disgrace” a decision to keep pacer trains on in Wales for another year – noting that they were scrapped in Tehran 15 years ago. Wales is now the only place on earth where pacer trains, built by British Rail in the early 1980s with a planned lifespan […]

nation.cymru

The 143's - probably the best of a poor offer. The 141's that went to Tehran were unspeakably bad. - being the first of a fleet. Mind you - even in the desert where they were dumped, they retained the no doubt frequently used phone number to call the fitters in York.

 

[editor]

Delays ahead

South Wales Metro rollout faces 'marginal' delay from Covid pandemic

The project, due for completion in 2023, faces delays of "months not years", its boss says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ddraig]

Metro De Cymru | Trafnidiaeth Cymru

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

trc.cymru

"What progress are we making?
We’ve already started work on the South Wales Metro, with the construction of our new £100 million depot and Metro Control Centre in Taff’s Well, Rhondda Cynon Taff.


Our Taff’s Well depot will be home to our new Metro trains as well as 400 train crew, 35 maintenance staff and 52 Metro Control Centre staff."

 

[editor]

Update on the work which starts later this year. Her accent makes me miss home!

Work to link the South Wales Metro Control Centre to the rail network begins next month ready for the arrival of the new £150m fleet of Metro tram-trains.
The scheme includes raising the road bridge and creating a new tunnel to join the £100m control centre, maintenance facility and depot in Taff’s Well, Cardiff, to the rail network.
Phase 1 will involve work to prepare the site for the new tunnel between 23 August and 10 December 2021. Pending planning approval, Phase 2 will involve the build of the new bridge between 10 December 2021 and Autumn 2022.
This work will require the closure of Ffordd Bleddyn throughout the length of the work, between the junction off Cardiff Road and the entrance to Taff’s Well railway station car park.
The pedestrian and cycle path (Taff Trail) along this section of Ffordd Bleddyn will also be closed from the 25th of October. Diversions will be in place for all routes.

Work begins to link South Wales Metro Control Centre to the rail network

Work to link the South Wales Metro Control Centre to the rail network begins next month ready for the arrival of the new £150m fleet of Metro tram-trains.

news.tfw.wales

 

[_Russ_]

Yay
Announcement tomorrow
Transport for Wales Rail services 'set to be nationalised'

Transport for Wales rail services to be nationalised

Ministers step in to "stabilise the network and keep it running" as income plummets due to Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wouldnt get too excited, If it follows the usual pattern then it'll get public funding to get back on its feet then when it gets profitable it'll be privatised like the airport, or just end up being simultaneously subsidised by the public and making a profit for the private sector forever like it does now

 

[editor]

This is pretty interesting stuff:

The Welsh railway network is a mess - in fact, there isn't really a "Welsh" network at all, it is just a series of branches of the English one... In this week's #RailNatter, we are discussing why that might be, how we might reverse that state of affairs, and - ultimately - what a useful and realistic Welsh railway network might actually look like!

 

[ddraig]

bit of "levelling up" dosh for a new line to Cardiff Bay

Levelling up: Projects across Wales share £208m in funding

There is also money for an engineering campus and a Llandudno Junction to Betws y Coed bike route.

www.bbc.co.uk

The announcement includes £50m for a new rail line between Cardiff Bay and Cardiff Central Station, which is part of a wider scheme to upgrade south Wales' commuter railway.

 

[ddraig]

Costs spiralling

South Wales Metro: Costs spiral more than £260m to £1bn

Chief executive James Price says he is doing "everything possible" to control costs.

www.bbc.co.uk

The first Swiss-built Class 231 Flirt trains have been introduced ahead of schedule on the Rhymney Valley line to Cardiff.

They will be joined by the Class 398 tram-train, which has now arrived for testing.

 

[davesgcr]

Costs spiralling

South Wales Metro: Costs spiral more than £260m to £1bn

Chief executive James Price says he is doing "everything possible" to control costs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bound to - inflation / COVID etc etc has impacted on almost every project going on everywhere !

However , revenue on TfW is good and buoyant - indicating that there is still role for the railway. I am trying to get a day organised for me and my retired rail mates to do a run to Treherbet before the end of April to wish farewell to the 1890's style single line tokens and enjoy the line before it gets transformed. !979 when I did my initial ops training down there - the view was that once coal had gone , most of the railway up the Valleys would go as well.

I am still waiting for electrification to Swansea .......

 

[1927]

Costs spiralling

South Wales Metro: Costs spiral more than £260m to £1bn

Chief executive James Price says he is doing "everything possible" to control costs.

www.bbc.co.uk

Saw one of the new trains the other day undergoing tests. They are a thing of beauty.

 

[1927]

Bound to - inflation / COVID etc etc has impacted on almost every project going on everywhere !

However , revenue on TfW is good and buoyant - indicating that there is still role for the railway. I am trying to get a day organised for me and my retired rail mates to do a run to Treherbet before the end of April to wish farewell to the 1890's style single line tokens and enjoy the line before it gets transformed. !979 when I did my initial ops training down there - the view was that once coal had gone , most of the railway up the Valleys would go as well.

I am still waiting for electrification to Swansea .......

I think you’ll find you can’t do that now as valley lines stop before Pontypridd and there’s a bus service in place til end of year. I may be wrong, but sure I saw something about it recently.

 

[davesgcr]

I think you’ll find you can’t do that now as valley lines stop before Pontypridd and there’s a bus service in place til end of year. I may be wrong, but sure I saw something about it recently.

Trains to Treherbet until end of April. Must check.

 

[editor]

Tram depot in Taff's Well taking shape. Look at the curve on that track!

First look at Wales' new tram trains as huge £100m depot takes shape

The long-awaited Metro aims to 'revolutionise' travel

www.walesonline.co.uk