philosophical
Well-Known Member
No, there have already been about 13 previous ones, of sorts. Including the referendum on the Good Friday Agreement.
Should there be a second referendum?
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
19sixtysix
Life as viewed from a Gay Gorbals Garret
Yes but I think they'll be a couple of general elections before parliament realise they can't sort it.
JHE
.
Yes, there should be a second referendum and it is the only thing that will have the democratic legitimacy to overturn the decision made in 2016.
There are two big problems with the idea, though. One is time and the other is the question or questions to put.
Here's what I would like:
1. A new govt committed to a second referendum asks the European Council for a short extension to the 2-yr period to allow a referendum. Unanimity is needed but some people think the Euro Council would agree.
2. A referendum with two questions.
First question: Should we accept or reject the proposed withdrawal agreement? Accept/Reject
Second question: If the proposed withdrawal agreement is rejected, should we leave without an agreement or stay in the EU? Leave with no deal/Stay in EU
Chances of getting this? I don't know. Not good, I suspect.
I understand various remainers think we should either not have another referendum, but cancel Brexit anyway, or that a no-deal Brexit should not be an option in the referendum. The trouble with these ideas is that they are plainly anti-democratic.
The only decent way out of Brexit is more democracy, not less. Remain can win fair and square, but only if the House of Commons gets its act together now to oust May and install a govt committed to a second referendum.
There are two big problems with the idea, though. One is time and the other is the question or questions to put.
Here's what I would like:
1. A new govt committed to a second referendum asks the European Council for a short extension to the 2-yr period to allow a referendum. Unanimity is needed but some people think the Euro Council would agree.
2. A referendum with two questions.
First question: Should we accept or reject the proposed withdrawal agreement? Accept/Reject
Second question: If the proposed withdrawal agreement is rejected, should we leave without an agreement or stay in the EU? Leave with no deal/Stay in EU
Chances of getting this? I don't know. Not good, I suspect.
I understand various remainers think we should either not have another referendum, but cancel Brexit anyway, or that a no-deal Brexit should not be an option in the referendum. The trouble with these ideas is that they are plainly anti-democratic.
The only decent way out of Brexit is more democracy, not less. Remain can win fair and square, but only if the House of Commons gets its act together now to oust May and install a govt committed to a second referendum.
Last edited:
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
why wouldn't we want referendums? becuase one went shit? will a political party ever give us anything like PR unless we have a referendum? I get your point (you cynical fuck) but bugger the politicians, - it seems to me that the only way of pissing off politicians is to have referendums - whatever the outcome.
Refusing to vote in +this+ "referendum" on *this* thread. 
Because if I vote Yes, I'll just encourage Brexiters (and/or Lexiters?) to win
And if I vote No, I'll end up needing to "discuss strategy" (i.e. drink
) with actual Brexiters. Or even worse, with Lexiters 
I'd sooner drink and chat politics with people who find Brexit boring and would reather chat actual politics
Because if I vote Yes, I'll just encourage Brexiters (and/or Lexiters?) to win
And if I vote No, I'll end up needing to "discuss strategy" (i.e. drink
) with actual Brexiters. Or even worse, with Lexiters I'd sooner drink and chat politics with people who find Brexit boring and would reather chat actual politics
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
I'm lost on this. People were lied to. So we should have another vote. No-one voted for this shit,
but we can't have another vote, and there wont be a another vote, no matter how much the Guardian wants it,
so we have a shit deal, or no deal,
I'm sad to say we should either be in the EU or out of it. I would be happier if we had voted to remain, but we voted leave.
So bugger it, no deal.
but we can't have another vote, and there wont be a another vote, no matter how much the Guardian wants it,
so we have a shit deal, or no deal,
I'm sad to say we should either be in the EU or out of it. I would be happier if we had voted to remain, but we voted leave.
So bugger it, no deal.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Because people are idiots and vote for stupid things
Because people are idiots and vote for stupid things
As Gervais says, they have to print ‘Do not Drink’ on bottles of bleach.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Hopefully a substantial chunk of the potential protestors will have seen what has happened to UKIP et al. and actually learned from it.
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
There was civil unrest around the miners strike and the Poll Tax and Cruise etc etc. Maybe someone else's heads will get broken by ob this time.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
The tear stained seethe from the kippers were it to be called would be awesome schadenfreude.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
If you can identify who the "kippers" are - now that Yaxley-Lennon is calling the tunes.
mauvais
on reddit or something
Who gives a shit?
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
Oh, fuck, I've just read your "typo". and I was bout to start drunkedly spouting!
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
The civilly unrested.
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
Would we not need to wait for them to finish their anti vegan sausage roll intifada they are waging against Greggs?
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Ideally this, but if this isn't a runner then a referendum would be sensible. Ban facebook for the whole duration of the campaign period too.
And send all the dodgy bastards in the leave campaign to the tower. Along with mog - his job would be to clean out the copious manure they produce.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Representative democracy.
We pay professionals to do it right and kick them out when they inevitably run out of steam.
We now know that there is a distinct shortage of expertise among the political class - especially on the right.
We pay professionals to do it right and kick them out when they inevitably run out of steam.
We now know that there is a distinct shortage of expertise among the political class - especially on the right.
Funnily enough, Robinson seems fairly relaxed on the topic of a second referendum. I guess whatever the result of one it would be win/win for someone with ambitions of leading a far right political movement: if leave wins again, you've still got brexit and the mad chaos that creates - if remain wins, you've got a substantial chunk of the leave vote as a readymade electorate.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There are lots of other ways to piss off politicians
didn't we have a referendum on something like PR a few years ago, which was rejected?
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
What like voting for them?
(not looking for a ruck Pickmans - I am far too pissed!)
mauvais
on reddit or something
We had a referendum where the question was something like, 'Is Nick Clegg a massive fucking bellend and is his proposed improvement to the voting process shit?', and you'll never guess what happened...
mx wcfc
Well-Known Member
Yep, butbthat was a fuck up. As I remember it Labour Party policy was some silly STV bollocks.
It was dead easy for the Tories to accept that as the option that we voted on, and dead easy for them to take the piss out of.
Nothing like proportional representation, and we are still stuck with first past the psot.
teqniq
DisMembered
That was joke PR anyway, I seem to recall.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Like shouting abuse at them in the streetWhat like voting for them?
(not looking for a ruck Pickmans - I am far too pissed!)
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