Serbia military building up along Kosovo border

[RD2003]

Anyway, contrary to many liberal hopes, history never ended after 1989, and arguably the world is in a much worse state. What happened almost immediately afterwards in Yugoslavia should have served as a warning, particularly of the inter-ethnic and inter-nationalist conflicts to come (Ukraine is only the most celebrated.) Unfortunately the Yugoslav wars were viewed, particularly in a West that increasingly believed in its own propaganda (always a mistake), through an ahistorical 'goodies versus baddies' prism, and the result was yet another human catastrophe. Whatever problems Yugoslavia may have had, nothing was really solved by its breakup. Its richer components had to get their begging bowls out for the EU-suddenly, and ridiculously, transformed in left and right-wing liberal eyes into the answer to everything. They now enjoy an election cycle where the choice is largely one bunch of self-enriching charlatans or another, and any hopes of genuine socialists, and progressives generally, if they even exist in significant numbers, are dead. All the former Yugoslav 'republics,' whether those that were given favoured status by the west or otherwise, have all sorts of economic and social problems festering, while ethnic discrimination and outright racism, correctly suppressed, as far as it was possible, in the united Yugoslavia, is rife. And now ethnic warfare is threatening to erupt in the obvious place for it again.

The former Yugoslavia can be viewed as the place where all the starry-eyed, politically naive expectations and hopes of 1989 died, even while the war, or at least the outcome, was mostly celebrated as their triumph. And it took less than an historical blink of an eye.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Grandad has escaped the home, again.

 

[RD2003]

Grandad has escaped the home, again.

Tell me why I'm wrong. I can concede that I may be. But I need to be convnced, because all I can see, particularly in the Ukraine threads-related to this one for obvious reasons, is former revolutionaries and their liberal allies parroting the line of those they purport to oppose.

 

[bluescreen]

Let's hope it happens. It'll be another thing for people to get outraged about, and they love that. Empty outrage is what societies run on now.

Jesus. Did you mean to say that, or did the words come out wrong?

 

[RD2003]

Jesus. Did you mean to say that, or did the words come out wrong?

No I meant to say it. Might as well have another war to get our teeth into. As I said, they love it.

'Make 'em laugh, make 'em cry...'

 

[bluescreen]

No I meant to say it. Might as well have another war to get our teeth into. As I said, they love it.

'Make 'em laugh, make 'em cry...'

So you don't give a stuff about the people involved, only about posturing?

Have a word with yourself.

 

[RD2003]

So you don't give a stuff about the people involved, only about posturing?

Have a word with yourself.

What difference can you or I make to the people involved? If those who want war get their way, there will, as always, be war. And the people caught up in it will, again as always, pick their side, although there may well be a minority who don't want to know. But they are condemned to be sidelined, and probably persecuted.

As with Ukraine, it will become for the rest of us a form of mass entertainment. That is the nature of the system we live under.

'Watch new blood on the 18-inch screen, the corpse is a new personality...'*


*I do acknowledge that TV screens are a lot bigger than they were in 1978.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Tell me why I'm wrong. I can concede that I may be. But I need to be convnced, because all I can see, particularly in the Ukraine threads-related to this one for obvious reasons, is former revolutionaries and their liberal allies parroting the line of those they purport to oppose.

Being critical of your own Government and its policies does not require supporting imperialism of another regime.

 

[bluescreen]

What difference can you or I make to the people involved? If those who want war get their way, there will, as always, be war. And the people caught up in it will, again as always, pick their side, although there may well be a minority who don't want to know. But they are condemned to be sidelined, and probably persecuted.

As with Ukraine, it will become for the rest of us a form of mass entertainment. That is the nature of the system we live under.

'Watch new blood on the 18-inch screen, the corpse is a new personality...'*


*I do acknowledge that TV screens are a lot bigger than they were in 1978.

It wasn't about any difference you or I could make, it was about your attitude. World-weary onlooker, criticising everyone, empathy for none.

But have a word with yourself.

 

[RD2003]

Being critical of your own Government and its policies does not demand supporting imperialism from another regime as the alternative.

Never said it did.

 

[RD2003]

It wasn't about any difference you or I could make, it was about your attitude. World-weary onlooker, criticising everyone, empathy for none.

But have a word with yourself.

Can't see why you assume I have no empathy for the victims of war given what I've written above-which actually includes the only comment since the opening posts that addresses the subject rather than the perceived dastardliness of a poster.

But where, exactly, is this 'empathy' supposed to go, and through which channels?

 

[bluescreen]

Can't see why you assume I have no empathy for the victims of war given what I've written above-which actually includes the only comment since the opening posts that addresses the subject rather than the perceived dastardliness of a poster.

But where, exactly, is this 'empathy' supposed to go, and through which channels?

Maybe the empathy could be expressed in not being so obsessed with being 'right' and just shutting up.
Also, things like this

Kosovo - Where We Work | Islamic Relief UK

 

[RD2003]

Maybe the empathy could be expressed in not being so obsessed with being 'right' and just shutting up.
Also, things like this

Kosovo - Where We Work | Islamic Relief UK

And? Humanitarian aid has existed in most wars of the modern era, hasn't it? And usually those who provided it have been better people than me. But this is when the war is a fact.

As for being right or wrong, I thought this was a thread for discussing another war that may or may not break out, and as such inviting opinions. In real life, you don't exist among people who always agree, so why expect it on here?

 

[bluescreen]

And? Humanitarian aid has existed in most wars of the modern era, hasn't it? And usually those who provided it have been better people than me. But this is when the war is a fact.

As for being right or wrong, I thought this was a thread for discussing another war that may or may not break out, and as such inviting opinions. In real life, you don't exist among people who always agree, so why expect it on here?

No, tbf it's true - everywhere on these boards where armed conflict is discussed we can expect to find you squatting with your smug miserablism. Not that Kosovo is anything but a recipe for tragedy.
I can't imagine that makes you happy, but maybe it does.

 

[A380]

And another potentially interesting thread gets the
treatment.

 

[RD2003]

No, tbf it's true - everywhere on these boards where armed conflict is discussed we can expect to find you squatting with your smug miserablism. Not that Kosovo is anything but a recipe for tragedy.
I can't imagine that makes you happy, but maybe it does.

Squatting along with others. And usually well outgunned, so what's the problem for you? I thought left-liberals were about accommodating minority views?

And you're still barely addressing the thread subject. If some people could cut down on writing about each other, thread lengths would probably be reduced by about two thirds, and more informative and readable. It would clearly remove what a hard core on here come for, however.

 

[gosub]

Anyway, contrary to many liberal hopes, history never ended after 1989, and arguably the world is in a much worse state. What happened almost immediately afterwards in Yugoslavia should have served as a warning, particularly of the inter-ethnic and inter-nationalist conflicts to come (Ukraine is only the most celebrated.) Unfortunately the Yugoslav wars were viewed, particularly in a West that increasingly believed in its own propaganda (always a mistake), through an ahistorical 'goodies versus baddies' prism, and the result was yet another human catastrophe. Whatever problems Yugoslavia may have had, nothing was really solved by its breakup. Its richer components had to get their begging bowls out for the EU-suddenly, and ridiculously, transformed in left and right-wing liberal eyes into the answer to everything. They now enjoy an election cycle where the choice is largely one bunch of self-enriching charlatans or another, and any hopes of genuine socialists, and progressives generally, if they even exist in significant numbers, are dead. All the former Yugoslav 'republics,' whether those that were given favoured status by the west or otherwise, have all sorts of economic and social problems festering, while ethnic discrimination and outright racism, correctly suppressed, as far as it was possible, in the united Yugoslavia, is rife. And now ethnic warfare is threatening to erupt in the obvious place for it again.

The former Yugoslavia can be viewed as the place where all the starry-eyed, politically naive expectations and hopes of 1989 died, even while the war, or at least the outcome, was mostly celebrated as their triumph. And it took less than an historical blink of an eye.

Know a former Kosovan ambassador, smart woman gave it her all, loads of headaches with Albanian mafia types...always thought the Scots could benefit from her insights

 

[RD2003]

And another potentially interesting thread gets the View attachment 393583
treatment.

Says another one who hasn't yet uttered a word about the thread subject.

Never fear-I'm sure some dickhead will soon alert a fellow dickhead to get me removed from the thread. And then you will all be free to indulge your platitudinous take on the subject.

 

[A380]

Says another one who hasn't yet uttered a word about the thread subject.

Never fear-I'm sure some dickhead will soon alert a fellow dickhead to get me removed from the thread. And then you will all be free to indulge your platitudinous take on the subject.

Apart from the second post on this thread you mean?

 

[RD2003]

Apart from the second post on this thread you mean?

Apologies, I forgot that one short, incisive sentence was from you. I have difficulty telling one liberal from another on here.

 

[RD2003]

Back to the subject again. Was Tito right in clamping down on any resurfacing of ethnic nationalism? Given what happened, and is continuing, I'd say so. It's only a pity he didn't cut off a whole generation of nationalist activists with a bullet to each head. If it had been possible to suss out the likes of Milosevic and Tudjman (sp.) so early, it might have been some sort of solution.

 

[Wilf]

Squatting along with others. And usually well outgunned, so what's the problem for you? I thought left-liberals were about accommodating minority views?

And you're still barely addressing the thread subject. If some people could cut down on writing about each other, thread lengths would probably be reduced by about two thirds, and more informative and readable. It would clearly remove what a hard core on here come for, however.

There's the quality of a formal dance to your little plays on these threads. Step one, drop your stinky pile as you did in post 14. Then it's a few jabs at 'liberals', former revolutionaries', warmongers and the rest. Then the sermon on everything you and you alone knew would unfold at the fall of the fall of the Soviet Union or, in this case, Yugoslavia. Then you shake your tailfeathers with your take on the human condition, how all is for the worst in the worst of all possible worlds. And then, here it comes! After your pirouettes and sermons, you accuse people of not wanting to discuss the subject! Wonderful!

P. S. don't think you've given it your usual 'I don't care what any of you think'. Don't forget that one before you put the cat out and go to bed.

 

[RD2003]

There's the quality of a formal dance to your little plays on these threads. Step one, drop your stinky pile as you did in post 14. Then it's a few jabs at 'liberals', former revolutionaries', warmongers and the rest. Then the sermon on everything you and you alone knew would unfold at the fall of the fall of the Soviet Union or, in this case, Yugoslavia. Then you shake your tailfeathers with your take on the human condition, how all is for the worst in the worst of all possible worlds. And then, here it comes! After your pirouettes and sermons, you accuse people of not wanting to discuss the subject! Wonderful!

P. S. don't think you've given it your usual 'I don't care what any of you think'. Don't forget that one before you put the cat out and go to bed.

Whatever thread I'm on, pseudo-revolutionary Wilfred comes along to tell me off. I think he dreams about me.

Even if what you say is the case, you still choose to write about the poster instead of the subject. It puzzles me as, as somebody who it never occurs to to do this except when attacked (even if it is like being attacked with a feather), why so many posters are moved to do this-as if an opposing view matters at all. If those who rile them are so wrong, then surely their arguments can be easily dismissed by actual counter-argument, as opposed to declaring that the poster they don't like is beyond the pale?

I haven't got a cat. Or a dog. I don't mind other peoples' cats and dogs, but I would hate having to clear up after one of the bastards.

 

[Wilf]

I think he dreams about me.

Now that, my dear lletsa, would be disturbing.

 

[RD2003]

Now that, my dear lletsa, would be disturbing.

Is it really necessary to turn up on any thread I appear on and try to tell me off? You seem to think it important to have an opinion on a far wider range of subjects than me, and whether I agree with you or not, the urge to do this to you escapes me. It might be because I don't care what you, or anybody else, thinks on those subjects.

Anyway: the former Yugoslavia and the possible resumption of war in one of its components...

 

[bluescreen]

Whatever thread I'm on, hardline revolutionary Wilfred comes along to tell me off. I think he dreams about me.

Even if what you say is the case, you still choose to write about the poster instead of the subject. It puzzles me as, as somebody who it never occurs to to do this except when attacked (even if it is like being attacked with a feather), why so many posters are moved to do this-as if an opposing view matters at all. If those who rile them are so wrong, then surely their arguments can be easily dismissed by actual counter-argument, as opposed to declaring that the poster they don't like is beyond the pale?

I haven't got a cat. Or a dog. I don't mind other peoples' cats and dogs, but I would hate having to clear up after one of the bastards.

Oh I don't know. Bad faith isn't an unreasonable thing to complain about. It's not as if you have unique insight we all need to bow down to.

 

[Wilf]

It might be because I don't care what you, or anybody else, thinks on those subjects.

I knew we'd get there in the end.

Oh and I'm a bit confused now. You berate people for not replying to your arguments, but then admit you don't care what we think...

 

[RD2003]

Oh I don't know. Bad faith isn't an unreasonable thing to complain about. It's not as if you have unique insight we all need to bow down to.


View attachment 393585

When have I said I have any unique insight, or demanded anybody bows down to anything? I've already said that as somebody usually in a tiny minority, counter-arguments are welcome. And everything I, or anybody else, says on here is unoriginal.

Once again-does anybody remember the thread subject. I've addressed it but few other have.

 

[Wilf]

Once again-does anybody remember the thread subject. I've addressed it but few other have.

Yeah, it seemed quite focused on the subject until... erm, what was it? Something, something happened, someone posted something... gee, what was it?

 

[RD2003]

I knew we'd get there in the end.

Oh and I'm a bit confused now. You berate people for not replying to your arguments, but then admit you don't care what we think...

Why does my not caring about what they say mean that somebody shouldn't reply? I don't deny anybody the right to reply, rarely attack them unless attacked myself, have never reported anybody to a moderator, put them on ignore or demanded they be excluded from a thread. I 'berate' people for being obsessed with other posters rather than the subject. Such people do, I admit, puzzle me. After all, they don't spend life in the real world only among people who agree with them, and never will, so why here? Genuinely unfathomable.

Once again-does anybody have anything to say about the subject of the thread?