Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
I find that so curious as there is so much more going on outside the gates than inside...in the case of BS anyway.
Say hello to Barratt Homes' 'Brixton Square' on Coldharbour Lane (old Cooltan site)
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Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
The one I'm thinking of specifically is on Pentonville Road. Not sure if the gate locks but its definitely there, along with the secure doors.
Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
Just a shirt with a BRAM logo, sorry to disappoint you. Seems like a nice guy though, very chatty and friendly.
editor
hiraethified
Is someone being 'bullied' in this thread via the means of the 'like' button?
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I used to live in a gated development in SE1. This was good but I did find a lot of the 'gated community' a but hideous. Not all but a fair majority where very insular.
That said this was a zone 1 Edwardian factory conversion with 24 hour concierge. Not some Barratt tat in a 'vibrant' quarter of zone 2
That said this was a zone 1 Edwardian factory conversion with 24 hour concierge. Not some Barratt tat in a 'vibrant' quarter of zone 2
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Freudian slip?
editor
hiraethified
Some mods most certainly have been bullied by posters in the past, but in this case the minor typo has been corrected.Freudian slip?
Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
Manter
Lunch Mob
Manter
Lunch Mob
How the m
How the mighty have fallen...I used to live in a gated development in SE1. This was good but I did find a lot of the 'gated community' a but hideous. Not all but a fair majority where very insular.
That said this was a zone 1 Edwardian factory conversion with 24 hour concierge. Not some Barratt tat in a 'vibrant' quarter of zone 2
story
Changing the facts
I don't like gated communities. And I don't think it's the same as having a front gate. It's more like the gate at the end of the drive. It keeps outsiders out, and gives the insiders (who are often better off than a lot of the people who live outside the gates) a sense of separation and security. It keeps them separate. The gates increase any inherent separation: why would someone outside the gate want to buy a drink for someone who comes from inside but has stepped out for a moment, like a sightseer.
The other thing about gated communities is that they are often carved out of territory or open space that was considered "ours" by the local community who have lived there long enough to see the place develop. I've seen this in the States, and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
Here in Brixton, both this place and Clifton Mansions (whose gate is now firmly locked at all times) were previously places occupied and utilised by musicians, artists, squatters, idealists, the lost and the low, and a bunch of people who made some kind of life for themselves and decided to stay in the area once they could afford to pay rent. A lot of those people are now being priced out of Brixton.
Brixton is changing. But Brixton has always changed. Imagine the reaction when the Jews moved in, an then the Theatre luvvies, and the disquiet when the West Indians started buying up properties, and then when the punks and anarchists arrived in droves. Brixton has always been a place of changing populations and fortunes. It's a wonder this current gentrification stuff hasn't happened a lot sooner.
I have a lot of misgivings about these changes, not least the rent hikes and people being priced out. And I really have to grit my teeth sometimes when I'm going about my business in Brixton these days. I was thinking today how the high street is almost more like the old Brixton now, than some parts of the Market are, because despite the chain shops, I still see Brixton people not outnumbered by the new tribes. I tend to stick to the less Bo-Bo parts of Brixton these days for coffee and chats. Trying to get breakfast at the weekend is a fucking chore these days.
I am worried that Brixton will become a pasteurised homogenised Sunday Supplement version of itself, all polite and shiny and no-where to buy tired short-life fruit and veg at knock down money for stew for a week.
But. I am prepared to be wrong. I hope, really really hope, that there won't be a separation between us old Brixton people and the new comers. I hope that rather than a schism opening up here, we can all be part of something that is still good, even though it's different.
I like a lot of the changes. I like having more choices. I like having more reasons to spend time in public spaces in my own community. And I like the way these changes have made it possible and more likely for Brixton folk pay more attention to each other, stop and chat and visit in the street with each other.
I've been in Brixton for about thirty years. Until this year, I have always considered myself a bit of an incomer, an upstart. But suddenly people are saying to me "Ah, you must have seen a lot of changes over the years...!" Yes, and most of them have been in the last three years.
I am trying hard not to be one of those grumpy old git oldtimers who never allow newcomers to become oldtimers. It's hard, though, when what I encounter in newcomers is a kind of worried confusion that seems to keep them always slightly on the back foot (It's okay! I won't really eat your baby, even you insist on parking your status-pushchair in the fucking doorway) , or worse, barging arrogance (I will feed you to your own fucking baby if you do that again).
So yeah. In conclusion, I'm ambivalent about it all.
The other thing about gated communities is that they are often carved out of territory or open space that was considered "ours" by the local community who have lived there long enough to see the place develop. I've seen this in the States, and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
Here in Brixton, both this place and Clifton Mansions (whose gate is now firmly locked at all times) were previously places occupied and utilised by musicians, artists, squatters, idealists, the lost and the low, and a bunch of people who made some kind of life for themselves and decided to stay in the area once they could afford to pay rent. A lot of those people are now being priced out of Brixton.
Brixton is changing. But Brixton has always changed. Imagine the reaction when the Jews moved in, an then the Theatre luvvies, and the disquiet when the West Indians started buying up properties, and then when the punks and anarchists arrived in droves. Brixton has always been a place of changing populations and fortunes. It's a wonder this current gentrification stuff hasn't happened a lot sooner.
I have a lot of misgivings about these changes, not least the rent hikes and people being priced out. And I really have to grit my teeth sometimes when I'm going about my business in Brixton these days. I was thinking today how the high street is almost more like the old Brixton now, than some parts of the Market are, because despite the chain shops, I still see Brixton people not outnumbered by the new tribes. I tend to stick to the less Bo-Bo parts of Brixton these days for coffee and chats. Trying to get breakfast at the weekend is a fucking chore these days.
I am worried that Brixton will become a pasteurised homogenised Sunday Supplement version of itself, all polite and shiny and no-where to buy tired short-life fruit and veg at knock down money for stew for a week.
But. I am prepared to be wrong. I hope, really really hope, that there won't be a separation between us old Brixton people and the new comers. I hope that rather than a schism opening up here, we can all be part of something that is still good, even though it's different.
I like a lot of the changes. I like having more choices. I like having more reasons to spend time in public spaces in my own community. And I like the way these changes have made it possible and more likely for Brixton folk pay more attention to each other, stop and chat and visit in the street with each other.
I've been in Brixton for about thirty years. Until this year, I have always considered myself a bit of an incomer, an upstart. But suddenly people are saying to me "Ah, you must have seen a lot of changes over the years...!" Yes, and most of them have been in the last three years.
I am trying hard not to be one of those grumpy old git oldtimers who never allow newcomers to become oldtimers. It's hard, though, when what I encounter in newcomers is a kind of worried confusion that seems to keep them always slightly on the back foot (It's okay! I won't really eat your baby, even you insist on parking your status-pushchair in the fucking doorway) , or worse, barging arrogance (I will feed you to your own fucking baby if you do that again).
So yeah. In conclusion, I'm ambivalent about it all.
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leanderman
Street Party: July 2
I think the gated community point is a very interesting one. If there were vast gardens and children playspace then there is a rightful case to be made that it should be open. However I think there is a massive misconception in this instance of what the public ‘square’ is. It is essentially a section of 3 paths that are being formed at the current time to lead to the various blocks as well as allow for a reuse lorry to come in and turn, with the rest of the land being the substantial cycle and refuse storage buildings that are needed for the development with some tree/shrub planting around it. There is therefore no grass or lawns to sit on, with two benches planned on the paths. So the case I would put forward is what benefit to the wider community is there in this being open? Are people really going to walk in to do a 10 metre circle around the path and then walk out? With the 300 odd people living here once the new people move in, I don’t fancy your chances for a spot on the benches!
As for the other big misconception that the blocks are full of bankers and buy to let landlords this is again very ill-conceived. To all the new residents scheduled to come in shortly you’ll find that it’s a very welcoming bunch of people who live here, many of whom have lived in the local area for a number of years and have simply used the 5% mortgage guarantee offer to their benefit to finally get on the ladder after years of renting. All in all it has been a great few months being in the development.
As for the other big misconception that the blocks are full of bankers and buy to let landlords this is again very ill-conceived. To all the new residents scheduled to come in shortly you’ll find that it’s a very welcoming bunch of people who live here, many of whom have lived in the local area for a number of years and have simply used the 5% mortgage guarantee offer to their benefit to finally get on the ladder after years of renting. All in all it has been a great few months being in the development.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I think you've just missed my point, which is that a private garden (as you had with your old flat) is the private space of the individual(s) occupying a household. A "private" communal space is something different entirely to a garden (where, as you say, you wouldn't enter someone elses' without permission). It's a communal space denied to anyone but the residents of your development, and though you say it's small, it's bigger than a lot of residential communal spaces - most apartments I've stayed in in France and Germany only have courtyards big enough to hold the half a dozen different recycling bins (yes, half a dozen!) and a bike rack.
WiFi? I should be so lucky!!! Still "wired" here!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yes, residential communities that are self-contained (from a security point of view, as opposed to an amenities point of view, IYSWIM) and accessible only through manually-controlled entry (everything from security bods to keypad and/or identicard systems - entryphones systems aren't usually included because they're not particularly secure).
E2A: This is from research mostly done in the US, but with a minority of it done in England and France.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Of course you would, you puling, whiny snake.
Thaw
Aye like, so it is.
My flat is part of a house converted into 5 flats. There is a communal garden, but only for the people who live in the house. Is that OK? Are a group of private individuals allowed to share something between themselves or am I only allowed a choice between individually owned vs. accessible to Everyone? The garden has a gate.
Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
Still better than my barely working 3g lol
Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
But we shared the "private garden" with a separate household. Which makes it communal no?
Strangerdanger
Well-Known Member
This was the point I was trying to make - I see BS as exactly the same concept as this.
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
There's a new gated development up on Tulse Hill next to the Esso/Tesco. I don't object to the flats themselves but now the wall and gate have been put in it looks gash. It sets itself apart from all the other buildings around. Is this the future for our architecture and communities ?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The phrase most often used in the US literature on gated communities is "siege mentality", but I don't think that such communities in the UK are quite at that state yet, purely because many US developments are racially-exclusive - not legislatively, obviously, but the development agents and the residents' committees control who can and can't buy into the community, whereas here the only "bar" is cost. In the UK we also have (so far) very little "white flight", which contributes massively to the homogeneity of US gated communities.
So yeah, I'm not surprised that you're more interested by what's happening outside, but I also suspect that you'll develop a "community spirit", at which time it'll be interesting to ask you how you feel vis a vis your community and the wider community.
I dont think Brixton Square is anything like what most people think of as a gated community tbh, despite the name it's just a bog standard private development with a bit of communal space; it's not even unusual for Brixton - there are similar blocks on Brixton Hill for example.
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editor
hiraethified
You really, really can't see the difference between a small, shared garden with a little gate and this?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's a private dwelling, a house sub-divided into flats, with a garden sub-divided into gardenlets. The privacy of the garden is part of the function of the original intended use of the housing. It follows that the garden would remain private.
We're not talking about a garden with BS, though. We're talking about what in a majority of apartment buildings, social and private, is communal space, just as is available (and totally publicly accessible 24 hours a day) to the front and the back of my council flat, just as is to the front and rear of the beautiful (and private) DuCane Court on Balham High Rd. Where's the need for the gate on BS? What's it's intended purpose? If it's to exclude burglars, then I'm going to contend that the place is poorly designed! If the purpose is to give the residents a feeling of security from the more base members of the community, then we need to be asking "why move somewhere where the locals scare you?".
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Last time I passed there, Greebo and I had a chuckle at the fact that a pigeon had left a rather large dissenting opinion on the development slap-bang in the middle of the name plaque.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Communal - shared by entire community. Households haven't tended to be self-contained communities since the advent of "nuclear family".
