Say hello to Barratt Homes' 'Brixton Square' on Coldharbour Lane (old Cooltan site)

[Rushy]

I don't have a car - I can't afford such a luxury - but you're welcome to linger around my block if you like, if that's what you're into.

To be honest, I've no idea what you're on about.

OK - I can tell that I am confusing you (or you are pretending to be confused) by trying to be imaginative with the way I put my argument to you after you conveniently sidestepped the comment about Clifton with a little gag in #663. So I'll be really direct.

You are extremely vocal about branding the (as yet almost entirely unoccupied) developments at Clifton Mansions and Brixton Square as 'gated communities'. You quote academics as saying that gated communities have a negative effect on the community outside the gated area. But Clifton has been gated in exactly the same manner for well over a decade and you don't appear to have ever had any issues with that. What seems to have prompted your ire is a change of occupants to people who you don't know and with whom you feel you will probably have less in common. That seems to imply that you are ok with gated communities of people you know, but not gated communities of people you don't. Which is not really much of a principle.

Could you clarify? I wouldn't ask but you do tend to dominate this kind of discussion at times and you categorise people with a very broad brush, so I thought it would be helpful to really understand where you are really coming from.

 

[editor]

Could you clarify? I wouldn't ask but you do tend to dominate this kind of discussion at times and you categorise people with a very broad brush, so I thought it would be helpful to really understand where you are really coming from.

Do you really think a well established squat that incidentally happened to have a gate attached (that was usually open) isn't any different at all to an upmarket gated development full of hugely expensive flats that most locals could only dream of affording? That squat was home to a diverse community that played an active part in shaping the Brixton that many people recognise. The Brixton I loved.

Perhaps it makes no difference to you at all if the flats are full of the well-heeled or squatters, but I suggest that the character of that stretch of Brixton may change considerably once the new residents are in - certainly the 414 and Albert are very concerned indeed about their futures. Again, perhaps that makes no odds to you, but it does to me.

Oh, and the only reason I "dominate" these discussions is because people like you seem to think that my opinion is of such great importance that I have to be relentlessly grilled in the minutia of every point ever made in the hope of unearthing a minor inconsistency. If none is found, the discussion inevitably instantly switches to some other vaguely related trip-wire laden topic, with one or two bullying types joining in from the sidelines on the big quest to Prove The Editor Wrong.

I've given my opinion. I don't care if you think it's right or wrong. Perhaps it's laden with those inconsistencies and hypocrisies you're so keen to unearth, but there you go. I'm human, I have opinions and I'm passionate about some things - and that passion doesn't always translate into the cold unyielding logic you and a few others crave.

 

[Ozone]

If you look on right move, there are currently 55 two bedroom properties for sale in Brixton for over £375 000, and not all of them are in Brixton Square. So I don't think it's the only exclusive development in Brixton.
Don't shoot me down for saying this, but the flats in BS are well designed and nicely finished and if new build is your thing, and Brixton is where you want to live, in comparison to many other areas (close to central London) then I would say they are quite reasonably priced for their size and finish.

There are other places to grumble about - how about this (in Brixton!) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/27429047

Now that is exorbitant.
(Yes, I know it's not a gated development, but if we're talking price of properties, surely it's important to look at the general area too, not just one development)

 

[nagapie]

There are other places to grumble about - how about this (in Brixton!) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/27429047

Has anyone ever actually bought that property, isn't it just permanently for sale? It's pretty ugly inside too and it looks pokey.

 

[Greebo]

Has anyone ever actually bought that property, isn't it just permanently for sale? It's pretty ugly inside too and it looks pokey.

All those pictures and not one of the bathroom...

 

[MillwallShoes]

they

If you look on right move, there are currently 55 two bedroom properties for sale in Brixton for over £375 000, and not all of them are in Brixton Square. So I don't think it's the only exclusive development in Brixton.
Don't shoot me down for saying this, but the flats in BS are well designed and nicely finished and if new build is your thing, and Brixton is where you want to live, in comparison to many other areas (close to central London) then I would say they are quite reasonably priced for their size and finish.

There are other places to grumble about - how about this (in Brixton!) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/27429047

Now that is exorbitant.
(Yes, I know it's not a gated development, but if we're talking price of properties, surely it's important to look at the general area too, not just one development)

they might be cheap for central london, but who can afford them? i would think a combined income of 110k a year might just cover it. we're all suburb bound - FACT!

 

[editor]

they


they might be cheap for central london, but who can afford them? i would think a combined income of 110k a year might just cover it. we're all suburb bound - FACT!

I've quite often found myself in conversation with long term Brixtonites all worrying about where the hell they're going to go when they inevitably get priced out of Brixton.

It always makes for a depressing conversation.

 

[editor]

Back to the Skwaaaare, the newly exposed front brickwork isn't looking so great.

 

[sparkybird]

Has anyone ever actually bought that property, isn't it just permanently for sale? It's pretty ugly inside too and it looks pokey.

No I'm pretty sure it's just come on the market... maybe you're thinking of the one at 31 BG that's always on for £1.6M - so a bit less and you get an extra bed!!

 

[leanderman]

Inexplicable price. I'd go to about £650,000 on it. Tops. (And if I had no kids)

 

[TruXta]

Inexplicable price. I'd go to about £650,000 on it. Tops. (And if I had no kids)

It's all the trimmings I guess. But yeah, more than 1 mill seems odd.

 

[shifting gears]

I've quite often found myself in conversation with long term Brixtonites all worrying about where the hell they're going to go when they inevitably get priced out of Brixton.

It always makes for a depressing conversation.

I had to quote this, as this really is a major and increasingly commonplace issue, and one I find myself discussing with other locals on a regular basis nowadays.

The long and the short of it is we're fucked. Those of us on lower incomes, who have lived in the area for many years (approaching 10 in my own case), face the imminent prospect of having to relocate. And Brixton is my home, my stomping ground, call it what you will. I love it here. And frankly, I don't want to live anywhere else, and it deeply fucking troubles me that I'm eventually going to be uprooted, and have to start again. Hence why, I have to say, these petty squabbles such as 'what constitutes a gated community?' piss me right off - I mean the Barrier Block, for fucks sake? Jesus Christ. It's an ominous (no offence to anyone that lives there - and personally I'd kill for a flat there!) building that the the influx of moneyed 'professionals' wouldn't set foot in if you paid them. It seems a safe bet that the Brixton Square Henry's won't be making much of an effort to get to know the older Caribbean set who perenially hang around outside the BB either. Though maybe Bim of Bar will prove me wrong. But I doubt it as he sounds a right plum.

 

[quimcunx]

Got a letter from the council about application to change social housing provision in the planning application. There is going to be a planning meeting on the 12th. Apparently the recommendation for the application is 'Minded to Grant Permission'.

If you want to speak you have to apply in advance. 3 people will be allowed to speak in favour and 3 people against. Ward Councillors are allowed 3 minutes each.

 

[colacubes]

Got a letter from the council about application to change social housing provision in the planning application. There is going to be a planning meeting on the 12th. Apparently the recommendation for the application is 'Minded to Grant Permission'.

If you want to speak you have to apply in advance. 3 people will be allowed to speak in favour and 3 people against. Ward Councillors are allowed 3 minutes each.

That's interesting. Maybe I'm having a brain freeze, but I'm pretty sure we didn't have to apply to speak when I spoke against the ice rink. Gramsci might remember better as he spoke at the same meeting.

 

[editor]

The long and the short of it is we're fucked. Those of us on lower incomes, who have lived in the area for many years (approaching 10 in my own case), face the imminent prospect of having to relocate. And Brixton is my home, my stomping ground, call it what you will. I love it here. And frankly, I don't want to live anywhere else, and it deeply fucking troubles me that I'm eventually going to be uprooted, and have to start again. Hence why, I have to say, these petty squabbles such as 'what constitutes a gated community?' piss me right off - I mean the Barrier Block, for fucks sake? Jesus Christ. It's an ominous (no offence to anyone that lives there - and personally I'd kill for a flat there!) building that the the influx of moneyed 'professionals' wouldn't set foot in if you paid them. It seems a safe bet that the Brixton Square Henry's won't be making much of an effort to get to know the older Caribbean set who perenially hang around outside the BB either. Though maybe Bim of Bar will prove me wrong. But I doubt it as he sounds a right plum.

I fear you're right. What's particularly depressing is that there isn't any obvious place for the displaced of Brixton to go.

Maybe ten years ago Peckham could have fitted the bill, but prices there are soaring at a similar rate to Brixton - and it's the same story in most other formerly run down areas within a 10 mile radius.

These depressing 'where shall we go?' chats almost almost always all end up with the conclusion that the only prospect is to move out of London altogether - and that really fucking hurts because we've all put down deep roots here.

 

[quimcunx]

That's interesting. Maybe I'm having a brain freeze, but I'm pretty sure we didn't have to apply to speak when I spoke against the ice rink. Gramsci might remember better as he spoke at the same meeting.

You can circulate written representation, which must be with the case officer by 12 noon that day.

It's a 5 page letter. I'm not typing it all up here. Presumably all the people who objected as discussed upthread will get the same letter. *pointed look*

BS is 368-372 Coldharbour lane isn't it?

 

[editor]

Fucking hell. A one bedroom flat in the shonky Viaduct development next to BS is nearly £16k a year.

That's more than I earn.

 

[TruXta]

I fear you're right. What's particularly depressing is that there isn't any obvious place for the displaced of Brixton to go.

Maybe ten years ago Peckham could have fitted the bill, but prices there are soaring at a similar rate to Brixton - and it's the same story in most other formerly run down areas within a 10 mile radius.

These depressing 'where shall we go?' chats almost almost always all end up with the conclusion that the only prospect is to move out of London altogether - and that really fucking hurts because we've all put down deep roots here.

Looking at prices, the logical move is south and east, from about Lee down to Catford, Bellingham, parts of Penge and Anerley, Norwood Junction/ SNorewood and Fort Neaf, down towards Croydon.

 

[TruXta]

Fucking hell. A one bedroom flat in the shonky Viaduct development next to the BS is nearly £16k a year.

That's more than I earn.

Available to let a stunning modern and spacious one double bedroom apartment located on Valentia Place/Coldharbour Lane besides the infamous Brixton Village.

 

[editor]

Looking at prices, the logical move is south and east, from about Lee down to Catford, Bellingham, parts of Penge and Anerley, Norwood Junction/ SNorewood and Fort Neaf, down towards Croydon.

I'd die a thousand deaths every day living in those characterless outposts of civilisation.

 

[TruXta]

I'd die a thousand deaths every day living in those characterless outposts of civilisation.

Oh get over yourself.

 

[editor]

Oh get over yourself.

I'm sure you used to have a sense of humour, you know.

 

[shifting gears]

I fear you're right. What's particularly depressing is that there isn't any obvious place for the displaced of Brixton to go.

Maybe ten years ago Peckham could have fitted the bill, but prices there are soaring at a similar rate to Brixton - and it's the same story in most other formerly run down areas within a 10 mile radius.

These depressing 'where shall we go?' chats almost almost always all end up with the conclusion that the only prospect is to move out of London altogether - and that really fucking hurts because we've all put down deep roots here.

Yes, this is all part of the overall picture - these less central/transport-friendly areas which have formerly been more affordable (though crucially, generally at the expense of things such as community - an oft-stated and of late perhaps cliched, but nonetheless defining characteristic of Brixton) are also on the rise, making even the prospect of relocating fairly locally (and preserving ties with Brixton) seem a pipedream.

And then you get all sorts of naysayers moaning about our moaning on gentrification

I wonder why some of us are vocal and insistent about it? (Not even typically myself, or not at least on the Internet, anyway, but tonight I'm riled.) Of course if you're salaried up to the nines and like to be able to eat overpriced food at a different eaterie every night while claiming you're not part of all that 'nasty gentrification business, I always go to the farmers market on saturday' then I guess you would take that stance... But don't be surprised if some of the rest of us have got your number.

 

[TruXta]

I'm sure you used to have a sense of humour, you know.

I've heard you say similar too many times to believe that was all in jest. No matter.

 

[Crispy]

Back to the Skwaaaare, the newly exposed front brickwork isn't looking so great.

It's the salt in the bricks leaching out. Happens to all new bricks, to varying degrees depending on the original salt content. It'll fade with time and rain.

I'd die a thousand deaths every day living in those characterless outposts of civilisation.

Tongue half in check: Nothing like an influx of new people to enliven a previously run-down area, leading to a resurgence of local character and eventual gentrification. The cycle will carry on repeating as long as London's population grows.

 

[TruXta]

Yes, this is all part of the overall picture - these less central/transport-friendly areas which have formerly been more affordable (though crucially, generally at the expense of things such as community - an oft-stated and of late perhaps cliched, but nonetheless defining characteristic of Brixton) are also on the rise, making even the prospect of relocating fairly locally (and preserving ties with Brixton) seem a pipedream.

And then you get all sorts of naysayers moaning about our moaning on gentrification

I wonder why some of us are vocal and insistent about it? (Not even typically myself, or not at least on the Internet, anyway, but tonight I'm riled.) Of course if you're salaried up to the nines and like to be able to eat overpriced food at a different eaterie every night while claiming you're not part of all that 'nasty gentrification business, I always go to the farmers market on saturday' then I guess you would take that stance... But don't be surprised if some of the rest of us have got your number.

Tell you what, as part of a very well remunerated household compared to most people (and by that I don't mean rich as in Bentleys and caviar, but probably in the upper tenth decile), we're nowhere near being able to afford more than a 1 bed flat here, and even that would be a stretch. If we can't afford it as Yuppie Dinks, then it's fairly obvious what kinda people can afford to move in and who has to move out. We came 6 years ago and loved the place to bits, but the last 12-18 months something has changed. Prices have gone massively up of course, but the faces I see on the street are not the faces that were there 2-3, not to say 5-6 years ago. And those new faces simply aren't as nice or as interesting as the ones that were there before.

Anyway, by the looks of things we're off to some hellhole called Anerley.

 

[editor]

I've heard you say similar too many times to believe that was all in jest. No matter.

Really? So exactly where and when have I gone on and on about places like Anerley, Bellingham, Penge and Catford then? Feel free to use the search function because I know what I've said.

Repeat: I was joking.

 

[editor]

It's the salt in the bricks leaching out. Happens to all new bricks, to varying degrees depending on the original salt content. It'll fade with time and rain.

I'm not a fan of that yellowy brick.

 

[TruXta]

Really? So exactly where and when have I gone on and on about places like Anerley, Bellingham, Penge and Catford then? Feel free to use the search function.

I didn't say you've gone on about any specific places (except you just did above). Two can play the pedant, but I can't be bothered. You don't wanna move from Brixton cuz you thought/think it's ace, got it, move on.

 

[teuchter]

I have to be relentlessly grilled in the minutia of every point ever made in the hope of unearthing a minor inconsistency.

What a lot of nonsense. You are trying to make out this is what is happening - whilst you repeatedly avoid answering straightforward questions and consistently demonstrate that you don't even bother to read others' posts properly.