Sadiq Khan to ban cars in much of Central London

[tim]

Vehicle free streets and buses only streets in much of Central London is the plan as a way of encouraging social distancing once the numbers actually working starts increasing which seems excellent to me. It doesn't seem to say anything about taxis and minicabs.

Transport for London reveal plans to transform central parts of London into 'car free zones'

However, he's also putting up fares, charging children to travel, and stopping the use of Freedom Passes during the rush hour.

 

[tommers]

It says "car free", so i presume that means no cabs either (which i find surprising tbh) and I'm also a bit confused by what the area actually is (Euston to Waterloo is a lot of central london) but anything that reduces motor traffic in central london is fine by me.

Most of those other changes have been mandated by govt as part of the deal, not Khan AFAIU.

 

[bmd]

It says "car free", so i presume that means no cabs either (which i find surprising tbh) and I'm also a bit confused by what the area actually is (Euston to Waterloo is a lot of central london) but anything that reduces motor traffic in central london is fine by me.

Most of those other changes have been mandated by govt as part of the deal, not Khan AFAIU.

It's driven by social distancing on TFL. If you can't use that then you would probably drive, which would cause enormous congestion and also, the mayor quite likes the lack of pollution. Not sure if this is sustainable. Yes or no to cabs? On the one hand, if deliveries get to do business then why not cabs? On the other, surely cabs will just employ more drivers and this will have minimal impact? I guess people could cab share. Uber must be revving up the lobby machine. Not sure where deliveries come under this edict but I imagine they're fine. I think this could be a back door way to try out this model and then show the stats to the car people.

 

[tommers]

It's driven by social distancing on TFL. If you can't use the bus then you would probably drive, which would cause enormous congestion and also, the mayor quite likes the lack of pollution. Not sure if this is sustainable. Yes or not to cabs? On the one hand, if deliveries get to do business then why not cabs but on the other, surely cabs will just employ more drivers and this will have minimal impact? I guess people could cab share. Uber must be revving up the lobby machine. Not sure where deliveries come under this edict but I imagine they're fine. I think this could be a back door way to try out this model and then show the stats to the car people.

Well they say to drive but where are you going to park? I spoke to a friend of mine who works as a cleaner in Central London and we worked out it would cost her about £45 a day + petrol to drive to work every day. Never mind the congestion and pollution and whatever else.

Black cabs have traditionally strong unions or whatever, that's why I'm surprised they are included.

We could certainly ban private cars in these areas but I have a suspicion that is a lot less of traffic than we think.

I quite like the lack of pollution too!

 

[bmd]

They say to drive? I thought this whole thing was about less cars. How bloody confusing. Taxis are included? That's a strong message. A strong union? Isn't that an oxymoron these days? I guess if they left the door open then everyone else would push though. I suppose they could change the licencing to less cabs and restrict Uber too.

You could find out how much private traffic there is, in a roundabout way (ho ho). They megacycle lane thing has a few book's worth online.

 

[scifisam]

Where's the bit about the freedom passes and charging for kids to travel? You can't even buy child tickets from machines at tube stations, and a lot of people do have to take their kids on public transport at peak times to get to nursery or school.

It sounds almost like it's been deliberately arranged to fuck over disabled people and families. If you're disabled and need to get to work or an appointment in these areas, with this plan you can't drive in, can't get a taxi, on some routes won't even be able to get a bus, and are being told to pay more to get on extra crowded services.

BTW with taxis being included in the ban two of the poll options are invalid.

 

[bmd]

Where's the bit about the freedom passes and charging for kids to travel? You can't even buy child tickets from machines at tube stations, and a lot of people do have to take their kids on public transport at peak times to get to nursery or school.

It sounds almost like it's been deliberately arranged to fuck over disabled people and families. If you're disabled and need to get to work or an appointment in these areas, with this plan you can't drive in, can't get a taxi, on some routes won't even be able to get a bus, and are being told to pay more to get on extra crowded services.

Plus ca change.

It's issues like these that exceptions will be for. Hopefully.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I look forward to Spymaster clocking this thread, and the poll results.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I suppose the reintroduction of the Congestion Charge supports this concept but I just don't know how local biz are suppose to function with these measures?

If it means more cargo bike deliveries then great.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I suppose the reintroduction of the Congestion Charge supports this concept but I just don't know how local biz are suppose to function with these measures?

If it means more cargo bike deliveries then great.

I assume people in the financial sector will just be expected to bring their own cocaine from home.

 

[scifisam]

Plus ca change.

It's issues like these that exceptions will be for. Hopefully.

If cars, taxis and buses are banned then there won't be any way to make exceptions.

 

[SpookyFrank]

If cars, taxis and buses are banned then there won't be any way to make exceptions.

Busses won't be banned. Also with all the automated congestion charge stuff it should be easy to create exemptions for specific vehicles. I'm sure Priti Patel isn't going to start to walking to, for want of a better word, work.

 

[bmd]

If cars, taxis and buses are banned then there won't be any way to make exceptions.

Not for families but then I guess they will have to get creative. Schools will have to get creative. More creative. I think this is about creating a shift in thinking away from the immediate gratification, convenience of the car, towards other means of transport. There will be much teething pain.

Then there are disabled people, who must be considered and, perhaps, can be given more space to move under these restrictions?

 

[scifisam]

Busses won't be banned. Also with all the automated congestion charge stuff it should be easy to create exemptions for specific vehicles. I'm sure Priti Patel isn't going to start to walking to, for want of a better word, work.

Buses will be banned from some streets and taxis and cars banned from others:

As part of Transport for London’s plan some streets will be converted to cycling and walking only – with others restricted to all vehicles apart from buses.

Why else do you think I was taking about cars, buses and taxis being banned? Did you think I was just over-reacting?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yes they will:

As part of Transport for London’s plan some streets will be converted to cycling and walking only – with others restricted to all vehicles apart from buses.

Presumably the streets with bus routes on them will remain open to buses.

 

[marty21]

Haven't looked into it but don't drive into central London and haven't done for years. Occasionally drive through Kings Cross to get to the A40 and then M4 to drive down to Bath , presumably I can still do that?

 

[scifisam]

Presumably the streets with bus routes on them will remain open to buses.

Are you completely ignoring what the article says in order to make this plan sound better?

 

[maomao]

I'm in favour of banning all private vehicles from London but this feels like Khan flexing his remaining muscles after he's just been turned over on the Tfl deal.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Are you completely ignoring what the article says in order to make this plan sound better?

If you mean the article that says bus routes will still run, and access for disabled people will still be permitted, yes I read it. What did you read?

 

[scifisam]

If you mean the article that says bus routes will still run, and access for disabled people will still be permitted, yes I read it. What did you read?

The bit I quoted in the exact post you're responding to, that says "some streets will be converted to cycling and walking only – with others restricted to all vehicles apart from buses." A later part says that, on some roads that allow buses, disabled access will be allowed, but obviously that won't apply to roads that are for pedestrians and cyclists only.

I mean, the paragraph is right there in front of you. I'm genuinely a bit baffled about why you're acting as though I'm making things up.

 

[Crispy]

Details: Streetspace for London

This is not "banning cars from central london" it's just on some key routes to enable people to get to work while social distancing. To make pavements wide enough for safe walking, road space has to be sacrificed. Buses can still run on the remaining road if the road is wide, but cars will have to stay out, and deliveries be restricted to certain times.

Preliminary map from TfL

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/emerging-streetspace-for-london-plan-for-cycle-routes.pdf

Central area detail via the guardian

Large areas of London to be made car-free as lockdown eased

Mayor Sadiq Khan says city needs to be repurposed for people as it emerges from coronavirus restrictions

www.theguardian.com

 

[scifisam]

That article also says that cars will be banned from most of the new planned routes, and possibly even two major bridges. And the government - not TFL - has decided to try to make children and disabled people make up some of the shortfall in money.

It doesn't seem very well thought through. That's not really surprising given how quick it is, but it looks like it might well be disastrous, and put people off longer-term car free solutions.

 

[Cid]

The bit I quoted in the exact post you're responding to, that says "some streets will be converted to cycling and walking only – with others restricted to all vehicles apart from buses." A later part says that, on some roads that allow buses, disabled access will be allowed, but obviously that won't apply to roads that are for pedestrians and cyclists only.

I mean, the paragraph is right there in front of you. I'm genuinely a bit baffled about why you're acting as though I'm making things up.

This is what it says on the actual press release:

Some streets will be converted to walking and cycling only, with others restricted to all traffic apart from buses, as part of the Mayor’s latest bold Streetspace measures. Streets between London Bridge and Shoreditch, Euston and Waterloo and Old Street and Holborn may be limited to buses, pedestrians and cyclists to help boost safe and sustainable travel as our city starts to gradually emerge from national Covid-19 restrictions. Access for emergency services and disabled people will be maintained, but deliveries on some streets may need to be made outside of congestion charging hours.

That implies that disabled access is being taken with emergency service access... I mean, we'll have to see, but honestly there is nothing in that that suggests reduced access for vehicles carrying disabled people.

 

[scifisam]

This is what it says on the actual press release:



That implies that disabled access is being taken with emergency service access... I mean, we'll have to see, but honestly there is nothing in that that suggests reduced access for vehicles carrying disabled people.

Unless they have definition of access for disabled people that doesn't include cars, I can't see how they can allow blue badge holders to drive in those areas while banning all other cars and even buses. It doesn't sound physically possible.

Emergency services having access is different - they can drive in lots of places other vehicles can't, and people will get out of their way, and they can retract bollards that block other vehicles.

Don't blame me for being highly sceptical when they say "only buses" for some roads and "pedestrians and cycles only" for other roads and then contradict that by saying there will be disabled access. They can't both be true. And, given that at the same time, they've also decided to make freedom passes invalid during the very wide-ranging peak times, I'm even more sceptical.

 

[RubyToogood]

Also "Blue badge holders" doesn't encompass all disabled people. Eg I get around by motorbike because of agoraphobia - it's a disability under the Equality Act but it doesn't qualify me for a blue badge, even if you could get one for a motorbike which you can't. Travel into the centre is getting harder and harder for me as motorbikes are getting caught up in the "private vehicles bad" approach.

Not that I have any plans to go into town during the pandemic if I can avoid it, and I work from home anyway - but in theory I'm supposed to work in Moorgate. The more inaccessible the centre of town is for people like me, the more it affects things like our employment opportunities.

 

[Cid]

Unless they have definition of access for disabled people that doesn't include cars, I can't see how they can allow blue badge holders to drive in those areas while banning all other cars and even buses. It doesn't sound physically possible.

Emergency services having access is different - they can drive in lots of places other vehicles can't, and people will get out of their way, and they can retract bollards that block other vehicles.

Don't blame me for being highly sceptical when they say "only buses" for some roads and "pedestrians and cycles only" for other roads and then contradict that by saying there will be disabled access. They can't both be true. And, given that at the same time, they've also decided to make freedom passes invalid during the very wide-ranging peak times, I'm even more sceptical.

Not for a moment going to blame you for being sceptical, I'm just saying that seems to be the intended reading. Exactly how they realise that is something different... Though semi-pedestrianised/shared use streets aren't uncommon.

 

[bmd]

Also "Blue badge holders" doesn't encompass all disabled people. Eg I get around by motorbike because of agoraphobia - it's a disability under the Equality Act but it doesn't qualify me for a blue badge, even if you could get one for a motorbike which you can't. Travel into the centre is getting harder and harder for me as motorbikes are getting caught up in the "private vehicles bad" approach.

Not that I have any plans to go into town during the pandemic if I can avoid it, and I work from home anyway - but in theory I'm supposed to work in Moorgate. The more inaccessible the centre of town is for people like me, the more it affects things like our employment opportunities.

The Blue Badge Scheme is a fucking joke.

 

[wtfftw]

It's like when bendy buses were better for disabled people as they were more wheel chair accessible but they also had fewer seats and whole bus stops were removed along the route. Mobility problems aren't always in a wheelchair or able to drive.

 

[scifisam]

Not for a moment going to blame you for being sceptical, I'm just saying that seems to be the intended reading. Exactly how they realise that is something different... Though semi-pedestrianised/shared use streets aren't uncommon.

Very small shared used streets are, well, not common exactly (a tiny percentage of streets in London), but they do exist. And they're generally really really short streets, because pedestrians, quite naturally, walk all over them, so going down them in a car you go at a snail's pace and need to drive extremely carefully. It's nerve-wracking even as a passenger. That isn't really practical for routes as long as the one on the map.

 

[MrAEMiller]

Details: Streetspace for London

This is not "banning cars from central london" it's just on some key routes to enable people to get to work while social distancing. To make pavements wide enough for safe walking, road space has to be sacrificed. Buses can still run on the remaining road if the road is wide, but cars will have to stay out, and deliveries be restricted to certain times.

Preliminary map from TfL

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/emerging-streetspace-for-london-plan-for-cycle-routes.pdf

Central area detail via the guardian

Large areas of London to be made car-free as lockdown eased

Mayor Sadiq Khan says city needs to be repurposed for people as it emerges from coronavirus restrictions

www.theguardian.com

View attachment 212872

It is an effective ban as it takes out London Bridge, Waterloo Bridge and even if you could cross the river by blackfriars the main east west carriageway is taken out leaving no way into the west end. Pretty much the whole of the city of London will be taken out too. Call it what it is. A ban.