krtek a houby
Kick me again Jesus
In fairness London can be unsettling at times. I remember many years ago being followed in the streets of south London by a cackling madman one night and fearing for my life.
Does London have as much atmosphere as it used to have?
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furluxor
snake with a claw
I left London 5.5 years ago, and my feeling was that it was getting increasingly hard to get by as a person who doesn't own their own home, especially after tories made squatting in residential buildings illegal. Now my situation is different but from what I see when visiting, it seems to me that if I moved back I'd be living in a city of analysts, managers of managers, PR consultants, bankers and marketers. Those are not the people that give a city its vibe. But who else can afford to live there, other than the ever-shrinking number of legacy renters/homeowners? Street jugglers returned to Spain.
I miss the anonymity, the "anything can happen" feeling and the adventures, as well as the cultural life. My current town has none of that. But here the people are really nice, from my neighbours to supermarket cashiers, and I've got a good circle of friends of the kind I never had in London.
I miss the anonymity, the "anything can happen" feeling and the adventures, as well as the cultural life. My current town has none of that. But here the people are really nice, from my neighbours to supermarket cashiers, and I've got a good circle of friends of the kind I never had in London.
mango5
Endeavour era
People change and cities do too.
It is the largest most multicultural city in the UK.
There are always different groups making their own spaces and vibes on their own terms. I dislike many recent developments and I intend to stay put to nurture the weeds that will grow in the cracks, so to speak. In the ways they did in decades past with squatting and raving and immigration and such.
I quite like the extinction of black bogeys and general reduction in pigeon guano. That's a thinning of the atmosphere I can get behind.
I've never been fearful on these streets.
It is the largest most multicultural city in the UK.
There are always different groups making their own spaces and vibes on their own terms. I dislike many recent developments and I intend to stay put to nurture the weeds that will grow in the cracks, so to speak. In the ways they did in decades past with squatting and raving and immigration and such.
I quite like the extinction of black bogeys and general reduction in pigeon guano. That's a thinning of the atmosphere I can get behind.
I've never been fearful on these streets.
mod
A modernist
not lived there for over 3 years but go back often
I find strolling around Soho incredibly depressing now and was always its main attraction for me. So sterile and ubiquitous now. There’s still pockets / streets that havnt changed. But not many.
used to have such a unique spirit and feel to it. A little dangerous at night maybe but never bothered me.
I find strolling around Soho incredibly depressing now and was always its main attraction for me. So sterile and ubiquitous now. There’s still pockets / streets that havnt changed. But not many.
used to have such a unique spirit and feel to it. A little dangerous at night maybe but never bothered me.
The housing situation here is getting more and more ridiculous. I was watching a 10 old web episode of High Maintenance set in New York, where one of the harassed characters forced to relocate to Ditmas Park (Flatbush, Brooklyn) says "I feel like unless you're born rich - or have some soul crushing corporate job - you can basically just go and fuck yourself".
That is pretty much how London has gone as well.
mango5
Endeavour era
I am constantly impressed at how poorer folk and families survive in London despite the excruciating pressure on quality of life and cost of living. There is evidence of enduring commitment and community spirit that can be very under the radar. This is not to overlook the downsides. Instability and precarity are almost designed to destroy metropolitan communities. Yet we remain.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
the price of everything is horrendous. i have had to develop skillful ways of getting through each month and having something to save. saving is my one way of creating a bit of stability. but eating out once (gasp) a week, foreign holidays, etc, forget it. when my life is budgeted in such a way, where most of my social life is built around free things, then i am not sure how much enjoyment i get out of london. but all my family is here, both my parents and my kids so that is a massive plus. i like living here but that has to do with the life i have built rather than the city i am in.
It is really good when you do see people living a non-corporate life under the radar in London, whether that’s based around a strong community focus, the arts scene, pop up shops and restaurants, or people delivering vital public services that everyone depends on…. But so many people I know have relocated from London.
I still love London and often on days off I will just mooch around a random area in central London in a way I don't think you could keep doing anywhere else in UK. and there is still history, life, things to do everywhere.
I also think young people do find a way to still come to London and be creative, put on events, create things that make the city special and some of the doom and gloom is typical of getting older. but no doubt it's harder. the advantage of youth is you are more inclined to just roll with the cards you're dealt rather than fixating on how it might have been cheaper/easier to do stuff if you were born in a different time but maybe that mindset is changing.
it is fucking expensive, though I think lots of cities/areas would be similarly expensive or close - I often find myself assuming stuff will be cheaper when we're elsewhere in the country and it's often not the case. myself and partner are in a relatively fortunate position of having OK salaries but housing, bills, childcare and food still sucks up almost all of it every month. crazy how much you need to earn to be genuinely comfortable let alone feel like you are well off nowadays.
I also think young people do find a way to still come to London and be creative, put on events, create things that make the city special and some of the doom and gloom is typical of getting older. but no doubt it's harder. the advantage of youth is you are more inclined to just roll with the cards you're dealt rather than fixating on how it might have been cheaper/easier to do stuff if you were born in a different time but maybe that mindset is changing.
it is fucking expensive, though I think lots of cities/areas would be similarly expensive or close - I often find myself assuming stuff will be cheaper when we're elsewhere in the country and it's often not the case. myself and partner are in a relatively fortunate position of having OK salaries but housing, bills, childcare and food still sucks up almost all of it every month. crazy how much you need to earn to be genuinely comfortable let alone feel like you are well off nowadays.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh I think there are many Londons I don't know about. I do know many very interesting things are going on, but the homogenisation of shops means there are imo fewer interesting things for me than there used to be, fewer political bookshops and so on. Looking back to Londons of yesteryear, for me the atmosphere and that isn't what it was in the 80s or 90s. Fewer music venues. Fewer dives. Fewer demos. But I don't get out as I used to, and no longer move as much in the circles that used to exist
ska invita
back on the other side
How the UK compares to Europe for rent prices
Inner London came fourth in a list of the continent's most expensive cities after Dublin, Paris and Oslo
inews.co.uk
Ive met people from Ireland in London who came here as it was cheaper!!
eta slightly shit graphic that, as it rightly separates inner and outer london but doesnt do that with other cities
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How the UK compares to Europe for rent prices
Inner London came fourth in a list of the continent's most expensive cities after Dublin, Paris and Oslo
Ive met people from Ireland in London who came here as it was cheaper!!
eta slightly shit graphic that, as it rightly separates inner and outer london but doesnt do that with other cities
interesting. I find Dublin slightly hard to believe, I wonder if something is skewing it. maybe the sq metre thing - I wonder if you just compared 2-bed flat to 2-bed flat it would change it.
mango5
Endeavour era
A mate sometimes wonders if what people are nostalgic about is their younger London lives rather than London itself. The disturbing changes I see are less about architecture, niche neighborhoods and funtimes, and more about the reduction of public spaces, poisonous policing and corrupt housing sector.
ska invita
back on the other side
No its true Dublin is a disaster these days
lack of homes and loads of people want to be there
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I think the issue with city based stats like that is often where the boundary is drawn. So Paris for example is technically a really small part of the massive urban sprawl you'd think of as the City of Paris, where London is much more widely defined since it was expanded to include the Outer Boroughs. So in a way Inner London is actually a much better comparison with 'Paris' than London as a whole would be, but still not necessarily exactly the same. I'd assume similar issues in other cities.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Can those be bought cheaper outside London
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Elpenor
a clown’s heart and a mandolin
I grew up in the grey bit of that map and have been told several times by urbanites that it was “not proper London”
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Well I mean whatever measure they're using, probably the ONS definition mentioned here I guess: Inner London - Wikipedia - which doesn't quite align with that. I think that does illustrate the point pretty well though doesn't it - you're going to get very different figures depending on which areas you do or don't include, and really there's no reason that wouldn't be an equally valid definition.
I find Paris hard to believe too.
seems fair enough ;-)
but some parts of that map that are outside the county of London, like West Ham, Tottenham, Hornsey, Wimbledon - nobody ever thought they weren't in London.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Just warming a bit to my stats nerding theme - based on the ONS definition of Inner London the population of IL is approx 3.5 million. From wiki the population of Paris is technically only just over 2 million. That's not because Paris as an urban area is miles smaller than London it's because the municipal boundaries are drawn so much tighter. So the Paris stat there is based on a much smaller area than even the Inner London area - and more central generally means more expensive. So is Paris more expensive than London? I'd argue it's impossible to tell just from that stat as you're not comparing like with like.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
whether it's "proper" or not, give me those over the "proper" parts any day. Less noise, less busy, cleaner. Okay a few less places to buy an over priced coffee or meal, but i'll take that for a nice quiet clean leafy street.
entirely a "me" subjective judgement but the idea of living in zones 1-2, other than an easy commute, fills me with dread.
Anecdata but hey. When I moved to Paris, the rent on a one-bedroom flat was pretty much exactly the same as I'd been paying for a room in a house sharing with five other people in London. (Paris 18th vs Acton so the Paris one was more central.)
That was some time ago but I've still friends in Paris and while rents in Paris have gone up a lot, they're still a fair bit cheaper than London. I actually rented a flat in Paris for a month last summer and again, can't envisage getting a short-term flat in London for what I paid.
Eta Assuming Paris is defined as within the peripherique (so 75001 to 75020) as that's where I and my friends lived/live and where I stayed last summer.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yeah we just grind our own beans now, much cheaper and tastier.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Yes I am really active, out a good few nights a week. A few of my mates eat out every fortnight or so and we dress up and really enjoy….nandhos! lol. Nandhos is exceptional value and they are everywhere. Still go clubbing now and then. Galleries. The gym. Hook up culture (It used to be fine to have no money and still have an active social life. Still is, in my experience. Urban over the last two decades has also been a fab part of my London experience
)The Leon coffee subscription also is great, and now I have found a few with seats outside and can vape and read and people watch. I basically give myself 50 quid a week for “fun”. It’s doable. My kids have a good life which is always primary for me..
