claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
Oh, I know what he's trying to do, I am just pointing out he's a fuckwit.
Religious fuckheads provoke other religious fuckheads to kill UN staff
- Thread starter Bernie Gunther
- Start date
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Just great, idiots sparking idiots into action, the rest of us are caught in the middle, and the more moderate religious types are pressured to choose sides....
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Blaming the actions of a small group of wretched and hopeless people in a battered and beaten little town in a country utterly destroyed by 40 years of war on a religion embraced by a quarter of the Earths population is ignorant, stupid and deliberately spiteful.
The dogmatic intolerant "Islam" as practiced by some in Afghanistan is an expression of reactionary tribal codes fused with political extremism and is followed by people whose entire lives have been lived surrounded by unimaginable violence and death. Actions such as these are a result of the desperation caused by decades living amid the most awful warfare and bloodshed. Many of these people have seen nothing their whole lives but massive violence and death. They have lost everything, they have nothing and the only thing they hold onto is their religion and their pride. Is it really any surprise that some are easily manipulated into this kind of rage and hatred and so easily provoked into what they see as a response to deliberate insult coming from the country that is occupying their land and killing their people? Instead of blaming something as amorphous and diverse as "Islam," perhaps we we would be better to blame the terrible inhuman intolerable conditions that the Afghani people are living under, conditions that may cause people to resort to this kind of insanity.
The dogmatic intolerant "Islam" as practiced by some in Afghanistan is an expression of reactionary tribal codes fused with political extremism and is followed by people whose entire lives have been lived surrounded by unimaginable violence and death. Actions such as these are a result of the desperation caused by decades living amid the most awful warfare and bloodshed. Many of these people have seen nothing their whole lives but massive violence and death. They have lost everything, they have nothing and the only thing they hold onto is their religion and their pride. Is it really any surprise that some are easily manipulated into this kind of rage and hatred and so easily provoked into what they see as a response to deliberate insult coming from the country that is occupying their land and killing their people? Instead of blaming something as amorphous and diverse as "Islam," perhaps we we would be better to blame the terrible inhuman intolerable conditions that the Afghani people are living under, conditions that may cause people to resort to this kind of insanity.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think that is wrong, my understanding is that 7 or 8 U.N. staff were killed including the ex Ghurka guards, other dead include some of the rioters which I think the ex Ghurka guards killed in self defence before they were overcome.
Yeah but how do you explain soldiers from the sophisticated, enlightened, democratic West who enjoy killing and torturing random "towelheads"?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yes, when I posted that this morning BBC were reporting 14 dead.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
They're fuckwits too.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
For the small group of people you describe, I'd suggest it's a matter of mental illness, social circumstances etc, etc.
Why do any criminals commit criminal acts???
likesfish
You can't park here sir
there are fuckloads of burning korans on you tube for all the horror of the "kill team" their crimes did'nt even equal one misplaced air strike
The UN are actually trying to help the country or were
ISAF are the death dealers mob tried to over run one of their bases and they'd be in paradise as machine guns are quite effective against mobs.
fuckwitted flavour of islam does'nt do mercy or forgiveness very big on punishment and rage though.
Pakistan is a very fucked up country.
The UN are actually trying to help the country or were
ISAF are the death dealers mob tried to over run one of their bases and they'd be in paradise as machine guns are quite effective against mobs.
fuckwitted flavour of islam does'nt do mercy or forgiveness very big on punishment and rage though.
Pakistan is a very fucked up country.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
dylans
overlord of all acorns
No. Putting this down to "mental illness or "a few psychos" etc misses the point which is the dehumanising possiblities of war itself. What the kill team did is not in any way unusual in the history of warfare across the ages. Murder, rape, mutilation, taking of souvenirs, killing of children. Random violence. Actions that the perpetrators may well never dream they were capable of before they did them. It happened in Vietnam. Happened in Iraq. The Japanese did it on an industrial scale in China and the Phillippines etc. The Germans did similar things in Russia. The Russians did the same when they took Germany. The British did terrible things in Malaya and India.The French in Algeria. It's a product of a conquest mentality and a mindset that dehumanises the people of an occupied land and turns them into "the enemy". Ragheads. Japs. Chinks. Gooks, Wogs, Russkies, Krauts. It's all about dehumanising the enemy. Once that is accepted then random violence is then not so hard, especially in the context of counter insurgency operations and the maintainance of occupation etc. When you are surrounded by massive violence, and random death, I guess the next step doesn't seem so far..
Perhaps rather than being bewildered that such barbarism happens, we should be surprised by the fact that most who go through war do so with their honour intact.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Should the actions of the nazis be blamed on the intolerable conditions imposed on Germany after the first world war?
Why has Pakistan failed to keep pace with India?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
On your first point. No. I don't think the conditions are the same at all. The Nazi atrocities were not a single act of madness and rage, they were a planned systematic ideological policy from a state. What we witnessed in Afghanistan was the mindless rage of a mob.
On your second point. As you know, I have written fairly extensively on the situation in Pakistan and addressed your specific question in some detail. Pakistan's problems are not simply down to its people being Muslim. That is ridiculously simplistic. But rather to its failure to achieve any national identity above and beyond religion alone. In a nutshell Pakistan is founded on the (false ) premise that religion equals nation and it doesn't. Blaming the instability in Pakistan purely on the religion of its citizens is simplistic. Rather, Pakistan's entire existence should be seen as an indication of the failure, or at least the limitations, of the post-colonial Indian democratic project which should have embraced its Muslim citizens within the Indian nation. Pakistan should never have happened. India's Muslims should have remained Indian (there are still more Muslims in India than in Pakistan) Pakistan failed because its only basis for existence is religion and religious identity does not equal national identity. The fact that the religion of its citizens is Islam is irrelevent. If Pakistan had been created as a nation for Christian Indians it would still have failed.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
But the conditions in pre-war Germany created the climate for nazism to flourish.
I didn't know that. Got a link.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Thanks, interesting reading. It makes sense to me. I kept meeting people from 'good families' in which the breadwinner was a lawyer, estate agent, airline pilot or something. They really could not think of any other way to deal with hostile foreigners than to bomb them. They couldn't see that some muslims might be peaceable and that public opinion in muslim countries might be worth courting. I suggested that putting terrorists on trial would play better in the foreign press than a military tribunal. And that extrajudicial assassinations of suspects by drones might increase rather than diminish the quantity of America's sworn enemies. These mature, intelligent people with masters degrees or doctorates just could not or would not make the link. So it's to be expected that uneducated grunts will be several steps more barbaric. I started my trip liking America. Tbh, now I wish more 9/11s on them. They've earned them. And they'll go on and on earning them. The ever widening gap between rich and poor, unemployment, cuts in public services etc. means their kids will grow up even more thuggish and ignorant than before.
The only ray of hope was meeting members of Iraq Veterans Against the War http://www.ivaw.org/ Seeing people being blown to pieces or burned to death had shocked them into engaging their brains about WMDs and links between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. But I can't see how the mass ferocity will ever end. Fox News was on everywhere I went. People swallowed it wholesale. Having a black democrat for President has made sod-all difference.
Tut, tut.
My mum was from the west of Ireland. She was a 'Culchie' and had some rather parochial views about people from Dublin whom she called 'Jackeens'.
I don't share her views on Dubs, but if I did and I wrote a piece slagging off Dubs, saying they were all gougers and reprobates and slum-dwellers, and 'the only good thing to come out of Dublin was the road for the West' I would think it incumbent on me to point out that my mum was a Culchie.
Therefore it surprises me, Spymaster ,that you have posted this homage to India and diatribe against Pakistan... without mentioning your Indian heritage.
As Dylans has pointed out there are more muslims in India than Pakistan.
Do you think these millions of Indian Muslims might have contributed in any small way to the things on your list of Indian achievements? Or do they save the brainy jobs for Hindis
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Most people posting here, like yourself, are fully aware my dad was Indian but it's not like I hold any particular candle for the place. What do you think of the subject matter?
What do you think of the subject matter?
'Most people' is perhaps a little presumptious - and I certainly wasn't til you pointed it out in a similar 'most people...' way on another thread. Ah well, readers of this thread will know now anyway.
incidentally, I added another sentence to my first post after you had posted. I'm in an airport and the yoke is playing up. just letting you know
Of the OP?
I just think it's as simplistic to blame what occurred yesterday on 'Islam' as it would be to lay the blame for one million Iraqi childeren (as a direct result of UN sanctions) on 'Christianity'.
I will spend tomorrow in the company of people of all faiths and of no faith. They are just people. Some of the most inspiring people I have met in the last few years have been Sufi Muslims. I'm sure some of the biggest cunts have been muslims too, but at the end of the day most of the bad things done on me and mine were done by white people who no doubt regarded themselves as good Christians.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Yes you're probably right, but I've been posting from the same position on U75. for over 10 years without hesitation, repetition, rumination, or deviation!
Dr Dolittle
Slightly loony
Whether it's one Koran or hundreds that have been burnt, someone needs to tell these people:
Look, it's just a BOOK, right? Bits of paper with ink on them stuck together between two bits of cardboard. It's an inanimate object.
The Koran itself hasn't been destroyed - only one copy / a few copies of it. The content of the Koran is exactly the same as it was before.
Got that?
But of course, there's no point in trying to reason with a hysterical crowd.
Look, it's just a BOOK, right? Bits of paper with ink on them stuck together between two bits of cardboard. It's an inanimate object.
The Koran itself hasn't been destroyed - only one copy / a few copies of it. The content of the Koran is exactly the same as it was before.
Got that?
But of course, there's no point in trying to reason with a hysterical crowd.
That is the power of religion: you can't argue with delusional stupidity, which is about the only thing keeping religions alive today.
Sadly, lots of people sign up for a life of delusional stupidity, cos it's much easier than thinking.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Dear Lord,
please crush all hard headed no nonsense pragmatist hard ons under your holy heel.
amen
ps
Lottery on weds-?
please crush all hard headed no nonsense pragmatist hard ons under your holy heel.
amen
ps
Lottery on weds-?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You don't really do people do you?That is the power of religion: you can't argue with delusional stupidity, which is about the only thing keeping religions alive today.
Sadly, lots of people sign up for a life of delusional stupidity, cos it's much easier than thinking.
renegadechicken
Live and don't learn, that's me.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
of course- I don't think all edl members are god fearing churchgoers or anything. They just like to get outraged when imaginary chrchmen get imaginary beatings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12951923
Which I guess goes to show that the Taliban are at least equal oportunities arseholes and never fail to give everybody the chance to hate them.
Now I dont pretend to know much about the various strands of Islam but I had always believed that the 'Sulfis' tended to be more on the easy going side of things and yet these pricks still seem to be happy to blow them up.
Fuckers.
I am generally against the war in Afghanistan but there is a dark part of me that hopes on of those pilotless drones has some Taliban piece of shit on its radar tonight.
Which I guess goes to show that the Taliban are at least equal oportunities arseholes and never fail to give everybody the chance to hate them.
Now I dont pretend to know much about the various strands of Islam but I had always believed that the 'Sulfis' tended to be more on the easy going side of things and yet these pricks still seem to be happy to blow them up.
Fuckers.
I am generally against the war in Afghanistan but there is a dark part of me that hopes on of those pilotless drones has some Taliban piece of shit on its radar tonight.
perhaps you should welcome some hesitation and rumination into your life. These fundamentalist chaps (christian and muslim) seem to have a similar level of 'certainty' as you have.
May your God go with you. I'm off to bed with my copy of the Baghavad Gita.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Illustrated version?
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