Recording your jobsearch when on Universal Credit

[weltweit]

Hi Irish353.109 a telephone interview is a fine first screening process in a job hunt. The only trouble if you could call it that is you have to prepare as much for a phone interview as you would for a face to face one. But I suppose you being from the supermarket world will probably not have worries on that front.

Why do you have to wait 6 months before applying to your previous employer? I haven't come across that before.

Best of luck with it.

 

[Irish353.109]

Because today it's your job search, tomorrow it's your social media, how much you're spending on booze and fags, and "...your girlfriend seems to be around rather a lot lately ".

These bastards abuse. They trick you into giving away your freedoms, and then they trick you some more. Why even start down the slippery slope?

I think that I do agree, whether it’s Tories, Labour or others (I’ve heard the Tories are full of lefties) and I‘ve seen it at my last supermarket with social media policies regardless of whether or not they have everything online and regardless of whether or not you have internet access from home or on mobile devices (I was also bullied online via social media out of a career change, for having to go home in 2009 to attend my Mum’s funeral in Ireland and a transfer between stores within my last company a few years ago, before my redundancy)

 

[Irish353.109]

Hi Irish353.109 a telephone interview is a fine first screening process in a job hunt. The only trouble if you could call it that is you have to prepare as much for a phone interview as you would for a face to face one. But I suppose you being from the supermarket world will probably not have worries on that front.

Why do you have to wait 6 months before applying to your previous employer? I haven't come across that before.

Best of luck with it.

...sorry I should have clarified that it was my job coach that is doing the telephone appointment rather than the normal face to face meeting at the jobcentre - as for the 6 month ban on applying for a job with the same company following a redundancy, I dont get it myself either - I would have accepted a transfer to another store, either in the UK or Ireland but none was available to any of us that was made redundant in Sept and they very quickly advertised our jobs out after we left, just before Christmas, which was unusual for our (very busy) City Centre store to make us redundant given our level of experience and length of service

 

[weltweit]

...sorry I should have clarified that it was my job coach that is doing the telephone appointment rather than the normal face to face meeting at the jobcentre

My misunderstanding sorry.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

In fairness, my job coach did tell me that if I was going home to my family in Ireland from Manchester (usually no more than 5 days on the SailRail via Holyhead & Dublin back to my home County in Rural Ireland) that I would need to notify her via a message on the journal (I last claimed the old JSA in 2002) but something very odd happened earlier today - she cancelled my jobcentre appointment, originally for early morning in person and then rearranged a telephone interview for late afternoon, as she was going to be away from her desk - I’m waiting to hear back from one supermarket employer following an interview on 27 Dec (as they usually start hiring towards the end of Jan and into Feb & March) so went on all the supermarket websites to apply online, except the supermarket that I was originally made redundant from (they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant) as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?) - but is having a telephone appointment or interview a good or bad thing these days?

No idea about the phone interview as I never had one - just make sure you stand by your phone on the day!

 

[Irish353.109]

My misunderstanding sorry.

Regardless of this, From now on, I need to cut the nonsense, I need to grow up, I need to “cop on to myself” I need to display maturity, I need to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions (and failure to act correctly) and properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal - this is why I’m going down to a local council run job place that has computers and help with such things as timetabling, as I do admit to myself that I have not been doing so because I live alone (and in the infinite wisdom of others should not be)

 

[Puddy_Tat]

they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant

that sounds more than a little bit dubious.

i'm a bit pushed for time this evening, but this (from citizens advice) may be worth a read. or this (from ACAS) - ACAS also have a phone helpline that any employer or employee can call for advice without needing to give full names and all that sort of thing.

or of course your union if you are still a member (i know it's a bit patchy in retail - tends to be chicken and egg, union representation is low which means the union doesn't have a lot of clout which means people don't bother joining and so on)

as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?)

says who? is this a company rule or what? this (more an advice service for HR people) does not say anything of the sort - it does recommend a two week break so that it's clear the re-employment is a new period of employment.

(all the above subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, most certainly not an HR person, and it's quite a long time since i was a union rep)

 

[Irish353.109]

No idea about the phone interview as I never had one - just make sure you stand by your phone on the day!

How do you plan your day to ensure that you apply for the correct amount of jobs each day eg search at 9am, find & apply by 12 noon, record in the evening

 

[existentialist]

Regardless of this, From now on, I need to cut the nonsense, I need to grow up, I need to “cop on to myself” I need to display maturity, I need to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions (and failure to act correctly) and properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal - this is why I’m going down to a local council run job place that has computers and help with such things as timetabling, as I do admit to myself that I have not been doing so because I live alone (and in the infinite wisdom of others should not be)

One of the unintended consequences of this rather shit DWP policy is that it forces people into a situation where they need to spend more effort demonstrating that they're applying for jobs than actually devoting the time and energy to focused efforts to apply for jobs they actually want, and can do.

Ultimately - as ever - this idiotic approach, in trying to catch out the lead swingers from "just getting paid benefits to skive", actually achieves far less - it ensures that employers are swamped with totally unsuitable applications from people who're never going to get the job, and forces genuine job seekers into a kind of brutal charade of jobhunting. From what I gather, this extends to the various workshops and job coaching sessions they do, too...

 

[weltweit]

..
properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal ..

If you are set on applying for so many you will need to keep a good record, otherwise it is quite likely you will end up applying for the same job more than once. I used to do a phone follow up a day or so after each application to confirm at least that my target did receive my application. You would be surprised the number of times they denied having received it.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

How do you plan your day to ensure that you apply for the correct amount of jobs each day eg search at 9am, find & apply by 12 noon, record in the evening

That's pretty much how I did it, yeah. No one can do 35 hours a week without reapplying! As someone said above, keep a list of employers you've applied to. Doesn't need to be a spreadsheet, just a Word document or even Notepad, so you can arrange them alphabetically and add to it daily.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Also Irish353.109 , you are being pretty hard on yourself. Try not to be. I know being unemployed isn't fun, and going to the Jobcentre feels shit, especially if you're going through that for the first time. But you seem to be doing all the right things to find work, and you come across as a decent, responsible guy. You're not some scrounger who needs a kick up the arse just because your job ended, as much as the Daily Fail and Tories peddle propaganda to that effect. If a friend or family member came to you for advice on similar, I'm sure you wouldn't be telling them to cop on to themselves or tell them they've failed to act correctly, would you? No, so please try and be kinder to yourself, because you're a good person and you deserve kindness and patience as much as anyone. You're not immature or a failure, you're just an ordinary decent bloke who was made redundant.

It's not always easy, but please try not to put yourself down!

 

[Puddy_Tat]

what LeytonCatLady said.

ultimately, it's about jumping through the hoops with just enough enthusiasm not to get sanctioned, even if you know what you're doing is pointless.

don't let the bastards* grind you down

* - not that all DWP staff are bastards, it's just that it helps, and if they aren't, they tend to get 'performance managed' for not meeting their targets for sanctions that month...

 

[weltweit]

And just by the way, because job seekers are encouraged to make loads of job applications the advertisers are usually swamped with CVs most of which they know have no chance of being shortlisted for the job, because of that swamping, you have to do something special to get your own CV looked at in the first place.

For me this was my phone call follow up, Hi this is weltweit I just want to confirm that you received my CV yesterday, my email address is weltweit@gmail.com .. Can you see it in your intray? Yes, are you able to tell me if I have a chance of being shortlisted? and when should I call again to find out?

 

[Irish353.109]

And just by the way, because job seekers are encouraged to make loads of job applications the advertisers are usually swamped with CVs most of which they know have no chance of being shortlisted for the job, because of that swamping, you have to do something special to get your own CV looked at in the first place.

For me this was my phone call follow up, Hi this is weltweit I just want to confirm that you received my CV yesterday, my email address is weltweit@gmail.com .. Can you see it in your intray? Yes, are you able to tell me if I have a chance of being shortlisted? and when should I call again to find out?

Thank you for the support - as detailed by previous posters, as a consequence of my own (which I fully accept and admit) imprudent actions and behaviour well before my redundancy date as soon as I became aware of my (then) impending redundancy, after reading through the links provided in full (and the related links within those links), I realised that, given that it was a supermarket employer that I was made redundant from, where I accept without question that all of the correct procedures were in fact followed, I obviously would “not have a leg to stand on” and not be in any position to challenge the legality or fairness of my redundancy in any way, given also that I had initially had considered moving back to Ireland and as part of that process, they were trying to find vacancies for internal transfer to Irish locations of the company from the U.K., not U.K. vacancies and there was no USDAW union rep available for any of these redundancy meetings, but the Irish relocation plan fell through - I’m trying to get structure and timetabling done via a council run place to make sure that I am applying for 7 jobs a day in every day Mon - Fri to avoid sanction on top of all the other jobsearch activity which must be recorded in the journal - I’m thinking of broadening my search beyond the supermarkets too, onto trains for one, as some people left our store to work for various train companies - at one of these meetings that I had with the council help people today, the MABS advisor that because I got £17,000 in the redundancy payment (another reason for not attempting to complete the UC application alone without council staff supervision) where there was no space that I could see to declare this on the form (and where the jobcentre were not interested in seeing documentation after the event of filling in the form, so it became “undeclared income”) I was warned that at some point in the future that the jobcentre could (quite rightly) demand repayment of all UC already made and in any case, I admit that I had some problems with my previous employer in previous years over attempted internal transfers to other local UK and Irish stores at various points, attempts to career change out of retail (including to become cabin crew - very long and difficult story, got conned out of a lot of money, had a lot of passionate opposition to it and bullying against it too, final outcome was I stopped even flying as a passenger, despite bullying attempts to force me to do so, as I was openly ridiculed, painted as negative, a whinger and a moaner, as wrong for even trying, but then being gay, I should be used to such bullying) - returning to my Catholic faith a few years ago was the best thing I ever did and having nuns back home praying for me in Dublin who are fully aware of my current situation here does help too

 

[Irish353.109]

what LeytonCatLady said.

ultimately, it's about jumping through the hoops with just enough enthusiasm not to get sanctioned, even if you know what you're doing is pointless.

don't let the bastards* grind you down

* - not that all DWP staff are bastards, it's just that it helps, and if they aren't, they tend to get 'performance managed' for not meeting their targets for sanctions that month...

I was also warned in a meeting on Tues 14 Jan with the Council MABS Service advisor about my redundancy pay which is currently regarded as “undeclared other income” (another reason for not filling in the UC form on your own without help from council staff) that the jobcentre could (at any point in the future) demand the full amount of the redundancy payment of £17,000 and not just the total amount of all UC already paid since the claim was opened and that if this happens, I would have no way of challenging this, plus I could also be prosecuted for benefit fraud if I attempted to do so, even after (or if) I do get a job, I was also told by the advisor that they now have new legal powers to freeze bank accounts and take payments from any wages at any potential new job if they find details of any (other undeclared income) from a previous employer relating to that claim, such as shares etc - I did explain that I found nowhere on the form to declare this income and when I raised this at the jobcentre, they were not interested - I have been bankrupt before which I told them, but even an expired bankruptcy still counts for this

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Irish353.109 That's a good idea about train companies. Anything where you'll be working with the public is nice and similar to retail experience.

Sorry to hear you've been ill treated for being gay though. I don't think that's something anyone should have to get used to, Catholic or not.

 

[Irish353.109]

That's pretty much how I did it, yeah. No one can do 35 hours a week without reapplying! As someone said above, keep a list of employers you've applied to. Doesn't need to be a spreadsheet, just a Word document or even Notepad, so you can arrange them alphabetically and add to it daily.

This is the very reason that I need to be (physically) going down to my council job search place every Mon -Fri and using both thier computers to search and apply, this IPad for thier emails on thier wifi and my Chromebook on thier WiFi to properly record what I’m doing, as the council MABS advisor also warned me about today

 

[Puddy_Tat]

where I accept without question that all of the correct procedures were in fact followed

I wouldn't bet on it. Some of the big retailers have lost employment cases (the one that took the piss with holiday pay springs to mind) Not going to do you any harm to talk to ACAS. Think there is a time limit after the event for taking something to an employment tribunal, though.

I’m thinking of broadening my search beyond the supermarkets too, onto trains for one

there are certainly worse rackets to be in - and (as things currently stand) still comes with a respectable pension scheme. although a few of the train companies are currently trying to get rid of people, and the government have made noises about attacking the pension scheme. which isn't going to go without a fight...

be aware that while train operating franchises come and go (and there are some rumblings about a couple being on the brink of going bust), the front line staff generally just transfer to the new franchise company and get a new set of fancy dress.

with some of the train companies, the 'entry level' is via agencies for platform staff (don't know where you are so can't offer any particular pointers) but this is useful experience when permanent jobs come up.

while some of it is a bit train-spottery, there is a section on www.railforums.co.uk for job hunting, you may be able to pick up some advice on there.

there can be quite a lot of competition for jobs on the railways as a lot of people who want to be train drivers go for the station based jobs to 'get in the door'

a lot of train companies (and TFL / Underground) do 'competency based' selection / interviews, where they ask you to give an example of a time you did X, so there are probably examples of things you did in retail that would be very valid.

(i do buses rather than trains, but do know a few people in that line of country)

may also be worth thinking about things like airport staff (if you're anywhere near an airport) and for that matter there may well be seasonal customer services jobs at coach stations and so on coming up in a month or two.

by the way have you seen this thread - do drop in sometime if you want

I was warned that at some point in the future that the jobcentre could (quite rightly) demand repayment of all UC already made

i'm a bit fuzzy on universal credit, but fairly certain this would only be if you had made a false declaration. i think i am still right in saying that with job seekers' version of UC, the first 6 months of entitlement is based solely on your recent years' national insurance contributions. after that (or if you haven't paid enough NI) then it is 'means tested' and having more than a certain amount of ready-ish money to your name would limit or possibly disqualify you from getting anything. if you're claiming housing / council tax benefit, that is means tested from day one. (it used to be that if you had 16K to your name, then you were ruled out of means tested benefits, but I'm a bit out of date with it all.)

if they asked you for proof of 'capital' (i.e. savings etc) then yes you should declare whatever savings account your redundancy pay is in. if they don't then it's not relevant.

that the jobcentre could (at any point in the future) demand the full amount of the redundancy payment of £17,000

I don't believe that for a minute. I think someone has got in a tangle.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Regarding the redundancy money, I think you can declare it through your journal, under "Report a change of circumstances". Make a note that the original claim forms didn't have a space for you to include it.

 

[Irish353.109]

Irish353.109 That's a good idea about train companies. Anything where you'll be working with the public is nice and similar to retail experience.

Sorry to hear you've been ill treated for being gay though. I don't think that's something anyone should have to get used to, Catholic or not.

One thing that I have noticed with some supermarkets (some more than others) is that they do online tests, that if you fail that test, you are at various stages, in some cases, prevented from going any further with your application and you cannot apply to that supermarket again for at least 3, 6, or 12 months, even if you have uploaded a CV to your online job account with them - this includes ASDA, Lidl, Aldi, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Tesco and others - the only one that does not do so (currently) is Morrison’s and some other retail companies are doing this too - it’s very rare these days that retail shops do (not) recruit online only, the bigger companies (only) recruit online

 

[LeytonCatLady]

One thing that I have noticed with some supermarkets (some more than others) is that they do online tests, that if you fail that test, you are at various stages, in some cases, prevented from going any further with your application and you cannot apply to that supermarket again for at least 3, 6, or 12 months, even if you have uploaded a CV to your online job account with them - this includes ASDA, Lidl, Aldi, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Tesco and others - the only one that does not do so (currently) is Morrison’s and some other retail companies are doing this too - it’s very rare these days that retail shops do (not) recruit online only, the bigger companies (only) recruit online

My advice then would be to broaden your search - include things like department stores, pubs, clothes shops etc. And don't be afraid to try smaller independent retailers! Good luck.

 

[Irish353.109]

Whenever I've applied for a job that I want (or need) over the last 20 years I've spent at least a day on the application. Do they want you to get a job or just pretend that you're applying for jobs?

Well, I think I know thw answer to that question really

I’m beginning to think that they want you to pretend to apply for jobs, which are the same vacancies posted on multiple websites and reposted - trying to apply any filters as to location, distance, relevance, etc is useless, they don’t work and even if you get job alerts by email it’s the same thing - I’ve had totally non-relevant jobs in Manchester alone, even within 10 miles of my postcode and then any relevant retail vacancies are in London, but for one of many examples - I’m trying to take this seriously but when you see the way that sites and agencies share vacancy details with each other, its a joke, even when you upload your CV for job matches to these sites

 

[nogojones]

I’m beginning to think that they want you to pretend to apply for jobs, which are the same vacancies posted on multiple websites and reposted - trying to apply any filters as to location, distance, relevance, etc is useless, they don’t work and even if you get job alerts by email it’s the same thing - I’ve had totally non-relevant jobs in Manchester alone, even within 10 miles of my postcode and then any relevant retail vacancies are in London, but for one of many examples - I’m trying to take this seriously but when you see the way that sites and agencies share vacancy details with each other, its a joke, even when you upload your CV for job matches to these sites

I've never had to use this, but the idea from what I know is this will apply for all the shit jobs automatically, just to keep the DWP sweet, whilst you invest your real time in applying for jobs that are relevant.

Universal Automation

Universal Automation is a Chrome browser extension that automatically searches and applies for jobs on Universal Jobmatch, the government-run job search website which benefit claimants are forced to use.The purpose of this project is to support the unemployed in their fight against the bullying...

automation.strikenow.org.uk

 

[Manter]

that sounds more than a little bit dubious.

i'm a bit pushed for time this evening, but this (from citizens advice) may be worth a read. or this (from ACAS) - ACAS also have a phone helpline that any employer or employee can call for advice without needing to give full names and all that sort of thing.

or of course your union if you are still a member (i know it's a bit patchy in retail - tends to be chicken and egg, union representation is low which means the union doesn't have a lot of clout which means people don't bother joining and so on)



says who? is this a company rule or what? this (more an advice service for HR people) does not say anything of the sort - it does recommend a two week break so that it's clear the re-employment is a new period of employment.

(all the above subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, most certainly not an HR person, and it's quite a long time since i was a union rep)

The 6 months is linked to redundancy. Redundancy payments are taxed differently for employee and employer, reemployment within a few months makes it look like it should have been a redeployment not an exit and so questions are raised by HMRC about whether it’s a tax dodge. In the 90s it was apparently common to terminate and rehire to reduce tax liability on bonuses, but I wasn’t working in those days so dunno

 

[Irish353.109]

I've never had to use this, but the idea from what I know is this will apply for all the shit jobs automatically, just to keep the DWP sweet, whilst you invest your real time in applying for jobs that are relevant.

Universal Automation

Universal Automation is a Chrome browser extension that automatically searches and applies for jobs on Universal Jobmatch, the government-run job search website which benefit claimants are forced to use.The purpose of this project is to support the unemployed in their fight against the bullying...

automation.strikenow.org.uk

Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?

Not tried it myself, but Universal Jobmatch has now been replaced by Find a Job, so you could try it on that. Let us know if you find it helpful!

 

[nogojones]

Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?

I don't know. I've not used it or heard of any first hand accounts of using it. It looks like you can contact the developers via that page, so they might be able to help with any questions

 

[Irish353.109]

My advice then would be to broaden your search - include things like department stores, pubs, clothes shops etc. And don't be afraid to try smaller independent retailers! Good luck.

agreed - and there are specialist retail recruitment agencies out there which I have emailed them with a copy of my CV as well - aside from the “taking personal responsibility” (which I get), it’s also so important not to do this on your own, asking anyone for help if you are struggling and not to try to just go on jobsearch websites (and jobsearch apps) alone, as I have also emailed a lot of train companies directly for ticket inspector, customer service oriented job roles both on platforms at stations and on board trains - I honestly don’t know how homeless people struggle with this if they have limited numeracy, literacy and hardly any IT skills, with a system that sets them (and us) up to fail, as even the main Universal Credit website is a Beta version - I’m not so much into the political side of things, but this is utter nonsense, with employers being swamped with unsuitable online applications so that genuine job applicants don’t stand a chance

 

[weltweit]

Irish353.109 don't worry too much, if you are making a proper effort in your job hunt, and it sounds like you are, you will succeed - I think the greater the effort the shorter the time, or something like that