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Recording your jobsearch when on Universal Credit

I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that.
Have the rules changed?

It is ridiculous. Handily, you can just make shit up, and they have no way of proving you didn't spend 4 hours searching for work/applications, plus another 3 hours travelling to and from a meeting with an agent. Just nod along and agree to do what they say, then do what you were gonna do anyway and tell them any old shit. They're hardly gonna have the time to check any of it out.
 
I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that.
Have the rules changed?


You can show your job search activity in any way you choose as per their regs etc,however best to keep a note pad of any applications and web sites you visit as proof of.
 
Evening everyone.

Like lots of people, I have recently had the misfortune of becoming unemployed and needing to turn to the state for support - and I live in a UC area. The work coach has asked me a few times to record my jobsearch on my Universal Jobmatch account, which I am not happy to do as I have never allowed access. I quoted the regs at her which say claimants can record their jobsearch activity however they choose. Her favourite retort is "Well that was Jobseekers' Allowance, this is Universal Credit!"


However, I've just found this link to what are specifically Universal Credit regulations, and nothing has changed! See clauses J3102 - J3107:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/562470/admj3.pdf


They still can't force you to show them your UJM account without the Data Protection Act changing (which obviously it hasn't), but many coaches, like the one I see, will try and kid on that that's now the only acceptable way of recording what you have done to look for work. My coach has blatantly lied that "Everybody HAS to use UJM to show what they've done", despite me repeatedly reminding her that that wasn't true, and what's more, she knew I knew.

But as these UC regs prove, they still accept any other methods - whether that's employer/employee correspondence; activity on UJM (only with consent); your written evidence or even your uncorroborated verbal evidence. The only difference is it doesn't have the same advice about how the coaches cannot force you to give access to UJM, but then that goes without saying - again, DPA.

So, basically everyone, if your UC coach gets pedantic about which benefit the rules apply to, this is ammunition they can't really argue with! Well, some might, but then you can ask if their boss is aware they are flouting the rules.

Hope this is useful.
I’ve recently been made redundant after 17 years in retailing (delayed claim) and on UC and my question is what is the minimum number of jobs per day, every day that you are required to apply for each day?
 
I’ve recently been made redundant after 17 years in retailing (delayed claim) and on UC and my question is what is the minimum number of jobs per day, every day that you are required to apply for each day?

This should be agreed between you and your job coach when you sign the claimant commitment. If you don’t know it’s best to message your work coach to check this.
 
That's cool Weltweit. I'm genuinely glad to hear you've had a hassle free time with them and they haven't used your UJM against you. Unfortunately, I never really know where I am with this particular coach - she can be friendly and encouraging one day, plain arsey the next. I can't afford to trust her.

For anyone else who's uncomfortable about allowing access, I have done a little more digging and the fact they can't make UC claimants give access is also confirmed in paragraph 10 of ADM Memo 15/16. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534893/adm15-16.pdf
And in case your coach says "But the rules have changed!", the current regs I quoted in the OP were updated and are valid as of October 2016.
I don’t mind about this, but trying to plan out a timetable for each days job search and job applications is both scary and a nightmare, making sure that you have put in enough job applications for each day
 
This should be agreed between you and your job coach when you sign the claimant commitment. If you don’t know it’s best to message your work coach to check this.
Before Christmas, I was trying to understand the UC system, having had UC password issues (for which I had no real help from the JC or the helpline) and the various jobsearch websites, which I did do a lot of searching, CV uploads but come the new year, although the job coach was OK enough as I had attended an interview she did say that within a certain period the number of job applications as recorded were not sufficiently acceptable, even though I’m mainly going for supermarket store Assistant positions
 
Hi Irish353.109 ! Thanks for posting. I was briefly on UC last year just after they'd scrapped Universal Jobmatch and replaced it with the new Journal. Sometimes you've got to apply for any old crap to make up your numbers. Here's what I did daily in order to satisfy my coach:

1 job a day from Find a Job (current name of government jobsite)
1 job a day from any public sector jobsite
1 job a day from any other website (I'll give you a list in a separate post)
At least four separate employers of your own choosing (could be an agency or a direct company you like the look of)
Make a note to call each one in a week's time if you haven't heard back (only do this if you know they won't mind taking chase-up calls or if it's just a "filler" job!)

List each thing you do, including callbacks, as a separate action to make your list longer. Also wait until the end of the working day to log what you've done. This is to save you having to edit from "awaiting reply" to "confirmed receipt", and also so your coach has no way of knowing what time you actually did it or how long it would've taken you, and therefore makes it harder for them to micromanage you. Personally, I was asked to come in and see my coach fortnightly, and as long as I followed the above strategy, my list of stuff I'd done in the intervening period was long enough that he didn't bother reading through it all and would just say "Keep up the good work and see you in two weeks' time!" Sometimes it was even longer than that.

Good luck and let us know if you need further help or advice.
 
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JOB WEBSITES I USED:

Allthetopbananas.com
Britishjobs.net
Broadbean.co.uk
Clickajob.co.uk
Cv-library.co.uk
Find a Job (most recent/current version of DWP site, was asked to use it daily)
Fish4jobs.co.uk
Guardian.co.uk/jobs
Gumtree.com
Indeed.co.uk
Jobisjob.co.uk
Jobit.co.uk
Jobrapido.co.uk
Jobserve.com
Jobsgopublic.com
Jobsite.co.uk
Monsterjobs.com
Reed.co.uk
Tiptopjobs.co.uk
Totaljobs.com
 
Thanks very much - at my age, I do stress about this and struggle to find the motivation, as I live alone and go back home but I also find the whole system scary after being bullied out of a career change while in my last job some years before my redundancy, bankruptcy and homelessness when I first came to this country some years before that, but the current system (17 years later) is now much worse, even though I agree with the concept of it in principle, you are still made to feel such a criminal and a fraud, they won’t help you if you run into password issues like I did (after (I do admit) trying to fill out the online form on my own and (not) in my local council’s employment centre’s computers before my redundancy date without supervision, even though I have online access from home in my council flat) - I’m still waiting to hear back from one supermarket after applying for 3 jobs with them and having attended interview for one of these jobs (all recorded in the online journal) - I do think that the experience of redundancy does affect your ability to think clearly, rationally and in a common sense way, which my advice to anyone facing this is to (physically) go down to your local council housing office and tell them what is going on, as soon as you become aware of even a possible redundancy and keep them informed of the ongoing situation, preferably “with someone there” especially if you are living alone, regardless of any redundancy payments or any possible transfers to other stores within your company, as councils are usually in a better position to help to put people in touch with relevant help, even aside from the “exercise of personal responsibility” regarding UC applying for jobs and other jobsearch activity - the other thing that helps is having a daily timetable of what you are going to do each day in jobsearch activity, including applying for at least 7 jobs per day as mentioned in your previous post
 
JOB WEBSITES I USED:

Allthetopbananas.com
Britishjobs.net
Broadbean.co.uk
Clickajob.co.uk
Cv-library.co.uk
Find a Job (most recent/current version of DWP site, was asked to use it daily)
Fish4jobs.co.uk
Guardian.co.uk/jobs
Gumtree.com
Indeed.co.uk
Jobisjob.co.uk
Jobit.co.uk
Jobrapido.co.uk
Jobserve.com
Jobsgopublic.com
Jobsite.co.uk
Monsterjobs.com
Reed.co.uk
Tiptopjobs.co.uk
Totaljobs.com
Thanks very much - I’ve listed the ones that I did know about, as well as setting up alerts via email on Google - I’m guessing that in each day from 9am to 6pm, you are required at the very least, to apply for at least 7 jobs each day
 
I mean technically, yeah. But the 35 hours you spend can be done when you want. What I did was, if I had an appointment with my job coach say, mid-afternoon, I'd type it up before I left the house, so he'd know I looked that day. But he never asked me how long it took or exactly what time I'd done each thing. If he had, I'd have told him I was up at 06:00 searching. Most of them don't care, and it's none of their business as long as you're keeping a record. More than that though, if they spent time analysing how long each claimant spent on their weekly/fortnightly activity, they'd get nothing else done! I'm sure every Jobcentre has one or two Rottweilers who'd love to have us all on electronic tags, but as being unemployed isn't a crime yet, you have rights on your side.

As someone advised me upthread - and I know it's easier said than done - don't let the bastards get you down. Be polite, but not too friendly, no matter how nice they seem to you. Just stick to the questions they ask you, and don't give away more than you need to.
 
..
I’m guessing that in each day from 9am to 6pm, you are required at the very least, to apply for at least 7 jobs each day
I wasn't expected to apply for a given number of jobs per day, it was accepted that I would / could apply for jobs which were a good fit for my background and where it was likely I could make progress. I think they want to see that you are making a decent effort in your job search.
 
I mean technically, yeah. But the 35 hours you spend can be done when you want. What I did was, if I had an appointment with my job coach say, mid-afternoon, I'd type it up before I left the house, so he'd know I looked that day. But he never asked me how long it took or exactly what time I'd done each thing. If he had, I'd have told him I was up at 06:00 searching. Most of them don't care, and it's none of their business as long as you're keeping a record. More than that though, if they spent time analysing how long each claimant spent on their weekly/fortnightly activity, they'd get nothing else done! I'm sure every Jobcentre has one or two Rottweilers who'd love to have us all on electronic tags, but as being unemployed isn't a crime yet, you have rights on your side.

As someone advised me upthread - and I know it's easier said than done - don't let the bastards get you down. Be polite, but not too friendly, no matter how nice they seem to you. Just stick to the questions they ask you, and don't give away more than you need to.
I blame myself for not having the right attitudes of common sense and maturity at age 49 to (physically) go down to my local council housing office in North Manchester, preferably with someone from my previous supermarket employer well in advance of my date of redundancy on 29th Sept last, regardless of any internal transfer vacancies in the U.K. or Ireland and instead, doing the online claim for UC credit with supervision on thier computers, where they have help there and deal with this every day, especially because I live alone, even though I have internet access at home (when I tried to do the claim on my own, I now can only access my UC on my Chromebook, as it “swallowed” the password, not on this iPad or any other computer - and thier password reset link did not work, even after going into the jobcentre and ringing the helpline) - I now realise that my ability to think clearly and rationally was seriously compromised by not doing so - I do fully realise and fully accept that I am coming across to them as being irresponsible and immature and not serious about wanting to take up a job (any job, no matter how unsuitable) and I need to grow up and “cop on to myself” and maybe being “positive” does mean “shutting up” being more mature and responsible, given my over 20 years (not by choice) supermarket experience - I’ve learned throughout my life and according to what has been suggested to me over the years that I am the sort of person who needs to be “bullied” “for my own good” and I would have to accept that
 
No one needs to be bullied for their own good, that's just what control freaks will tell you. I'm sorry you've been subject to that shite.

And I've ranted about this before, but if the Jobcentre insist on pushing you into any old job, even if you have no experience in it, the employer will be pissed off, and even if they do take you on, they'll probably let you go after a few days if you're not picking it up due to lack of experience. That's happened to me before. Most of my jobs were call centre or office based, and my coach at the time gave me a job at Shake Shack to apply for, saying it was mandatory. I got the job but was let go after three days for "not being the right fit". And the coach had the cheek to get arsey with me about it like that was my fault. What did she think was going to happen? If she'd bothered to read my CV, she could have saved everyone the hassle.
 
I don't really understand people's objection to sharing an UJM record with their job centre advisor. I just recorded every smallest thing that I did which always made it more impressive than it was. Then at my 2 weekly meetings my advisor would look at it, hum and harr and on we would go.

What I am saying is I don't see what harm it did for me?
 
I think it was the Big Brother-ishness of UJM. No one objects to sharing a record of jobsearching activities, it was allowing the adviser 24 hour access to it. It's easily misused. What if you were ill one day and didn't log in? Or if you went out to go to an interview and didn't sign in because of that? An adviser who's unscrupulous could potentially use that as an excuse to sanction you with no questions asked.

The new UC Journal which replaced UJM can also be accessed at any time, but it's not timestamped in the same way, and doesn't seem to have the same technical issues with crashing and losing what you've put (which happened to me in my UJM days). It's not about sharing your records with your adviser, it's the principle of the thing. Being unemployed doesn't give them the right to spy on you in real time.
 
Oh, ok. I doubt my advisor would have had time to look into mine when I wasn't there, he always seemed to be pretty snowed under.

The only time I had an issue was when I told him I was away for a couple of days but would still be job hunting while away. He got quite excited and made me sign all sorts of forms about absence etc I didn't really understand the issue.
 
Oh, ok. I doubt my advisor would have had time to look into mine when I wasn't there, he always seemed to be pretty snowed under.

The only time I had an issue was when I told him I was away for a couple of days but would still be job hunting while away. He got quite excited and made me sign all sorts of forms about absence etc I didn't really understand the issue.
Yeah, that's bizarre to me. I remember the first time I claimed JSA in 2008 and reading over the terms and conditions, which included "You must tell us if you are away from home, even if it's only for a day". How do they define "away from home"? Out of London, or out of the specific borough where I lived? They'd be going crazy if I updated them every time I left the boundaries of Waltham Forest!
 
IIRC he was most excited that they might not be able to contact me. I said but you only have a mobile number for me, I only have a mobile!!
 
It's a long time since I was on the dole, but can you still get away with recording time wandering round town as job seeking on the basis you're looking for vacancy adverts in shop windows?

Or do they expect you to do it all online now?

Likewise, you could get away with having the occasional few days away so long as I went in to the job centre and read some local papers when i was there (extending the job search beyond local area). Now it's all online, that might not be so easy...
 
It's a long time since I was on the dole, but can you still get away with recording time wandering round town as job seeking on the basis you're looking for vacancy adverts in shop windows?

Or do they expect you to do it all online now?

Likewise, you could get away with having the occasional few days away so long as I went in to the job centre and read some local papers when i was there (extending the job search beyond local area). Now it's all online, that might not be so easy...
I believe anything you do counts. Lots of independent businesses still accept paper CVs, for example, so they can't really reject that because it's not "modern" enough. At least, no one expressed disapproval on my last UC stint.
 
@Puddy_Tat I could have gotten away with walking about and looking for sure, especially if I had copies of my CV with me to hand out.

or if you're supposed to do x number of hours a week, dropping in and asking for an application form, then going back the next day with CV if that's what they want would take a bit more time...
 
I don't know how much one gets on UC? but I considered it a not inconsiderable achievement to live, eat and continue to run a car while on JSA.
 
I don't really understand people's objection to sharing an UJM record with their job centre advisor. I just recorded every smallest thing that I did which always made it more impressive than it was. Then at my 2 weekly meetings my advisor would look at it, hum and harr and on we would go.

What I am saying is I don't see what harm it did for me?
Because today it's your job search, tomorrow it's your social media, how much you're spending on booze and fags, and "...your girlfriend seems to be around rather a lot lately :hmm:".

These bastards abuse. They trick you into giving away your freedoms, and then they trick you some more. Why even start down the slippery slope?
 
Yeah, that's bizarre to me. I remember the first time I claimed JSA in 2008 and reading over the terms and conditions, which included "You must tell us if you are away from home, even if it's only for a day". How do they define "away from home"? Out of London, or out of the specific borough where I lived? They'd be going crazy if I updated them every time I left the boundaries of Waltham Forest!
In fairness, my job coach did tell me that if I was going home to my family in Ireland from Manchester (usually no more than 5 days on the SailRail via Holyhead & Dublin back to my home County in Rural Ireland) that I would need to notify her via a message on the journal (I last claimed the old JSA in 2002) but something very odd happened earlier today - she cancelled my jobcentre appointment, originally for early morning in person and then rearranged a telephone interview for late afternoon, as she was going to be away from her desk - I’m waiting to hear back from one supermarket employer following an interview on 27 Dec (as they usually start hiring towards the end of Jan and into Feb & March) so went on all the supermarket websites to apply online, except the supermarket that I was originally made redundant from (they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant) as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?) - but is having a telephone appointment or interview a good or bad thing these days?
 
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