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Recent attacks in Iraq

what I see ashdowns role is in getting the publc appetite ready for the notion of breaking these countries up as the most sensible thing to do. it also maes the appointng of Blair to the middle east as a peace commssoner appear quite sensible...you can actually see the logic in it when you realise this was the game plan all along

bet my bollocks after ashdown tests the waters blair will come steaming in with a solution
 
"Part of the deal with the Kurds would have to be an end to interference in Turkey, which has its own problems with Kurdish secessionism." cant see why that would have to be part of the deal. Arent the PKK kind of independent from this situation?

Turkish policy is to set the Iraqi Kurds against the PKK. An "end to interference" won't cut it, they're demanding that they hunt them down and disband them. It's working brilliantly so far, Erdogan is no fool whatever else he is.
 
"As we departed Lalesh, the guerrillas and the people demonstrated their determination to defend the region by shouting slogans such as "Long Live President Apo..."

"President Apo" is Abdullah Ocalan, imprisoned leader of the PKK and all-round nutcase. It's very bad news that these guys regard him as their "President."
 
"

"President Apo" is Abdullah Ocalan, imprisoned leader of the PKK and all-round nutcase. It's very bad news that these guys regard him as their "President."

Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the strong impression both him and the PKK have very much reduced their nutcase tendancies and are fairly sensible
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the strong impression both him and the PKK have very much reduced their nutcase tendancies and are fairly sensible

He's been reading Bookchin in prison. Claims to have renounced violence. Easy and probably necessary to say in his circumstances.

I'll never trust him, he tried to kill me.
 
Predictable arguments between PKK and peshmerga starting

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/15082014
looks like PKK are being squeezed here - they're not the ones getting armed, the US and Peshmerga want to move in on their turf, Ashdown is making public sounds about the "the deal" "would have to be an end to interference in Turkey" - pure speculation, but what if Turkey, the US and Iraqi Kurds are planning to undo the PKK as part of a joint agreement?
 
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on the issue of are there or arent there people on the mountain or not

"A Yazidi leader who was injured in a helicopter crash delivering aid to Mount Sinjar has cast doubt on US claims that there are “far fewer” Yazidis trapped on the mountain than previously feared.
Speaking from her hospital bed, Vian Dakhil, told the New York Times: “It’s not true.” It said she reckoned there were up to 80,000 people still trapped on the mountain.
It’s better now than it had been, but it’s just not true that all of them are safe — they are not. Especially on the south side of the mountain, the situation is very terrible. There are still people who are not getting any aid."

very bizarre this
 
on the issue of are there or arent there people on the mountain or not

"A Yazidi leader who was injured in a helicopter crash delivering aid to Mount Sinjar has cast doubt on US claims that there are “far fewer” Yazidis trapped on the mountain than previously feared.
Speaking from her hospital bed, Vian Dakhil, told the New York Times: “It’s not true.” It said she reckoned there were up to 80,000 people still trapped on the mountain.
It’s better now than it had been, but it’s just not true that all of them are safe — they are not. Especially on the south side of the mountain, the situation is very terrible. There are still people who are not getting any aid."

very bizarre this

Mebbes the US/Obama looking for an excuse to be doing as little as possible?
 
Let's give weapons to the good guys

- Who gave weapons to the bad guys?

We did, and our friends. But that was when the bad guys were good.

- Isnt there something wrong with this picture?

Hang on, you dont think the bad guys are good do you? Thats monstrous.

("Orwell as Optimist" Pt. 97)
 
OK so your final point was not in direct relation to the story you linked to, threw me.

Anyways: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/15/us-iraq-security-sunnis-idUSKBN0GF1BF20140815

One of Iraq's most powerful Sunni tribal leaders said he was ready to work with the new prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, provided he protected the rights of the minority sect, which was marginalized by Maliki.

In a television appearance, Ali Hatem Suleiman, head of the Dulaimi tribe that dominates the Sunni heartland Anbar province, said a decision on whether or not to fight the Sunni Islamic State insurgents who threaten to break up Iraq would come later.

Taha Mohammed Al-Hamdoon, the spokesman for tribal and clerical leaders, said Sunni representatives in Anbar and other provinces had drawn up a list of demands to be delivered to the moderate Shi'ite Abadi through Sunni politicians.

He called for government and Shi'ite militia forces to suspend hostilities to allow space for talks.

"It is not possible for any negotiations to be held under barrel bombs and indiscriminate bombing," Hamdoon said in a telephone interview with Reuters. "Let the bombing stop and withdraw and curtail the (Shi'ite) militias until there is a solution for the wise men in these areas."

The list of demands in a document seen by Reuters include an end to bombings of Sunni areas, the safe return of displaced people, compensation and am amnesty for detainees and the withdrawal of Shi'ite militias from cities.

It is not clear whether Hamdoon and his supporters will be able to persuade other Sunnis to follow suit if they back Abadi's government.

And not all factions in a complex network of tribes may be open to the idea of compromise.

Hamdoon said Sunnis in other provinces such as Salahuddin and Ninevah want to administer their own areas and form their own security forces supervised by the local government.
 
Sorry. Your post here is exactly what i was on about. And my reading is that the trad powers have to do it now or there will be less controllable people acting.

Yeah, and we've been repeatedly told that the reason for forcing Maliki out was to facilitate that sort of thing, although there may have been other reasons that aren't public.
 
@Matthew__Barber: 1) Perhaps the hardest encounter yet: Spoke last night to 11-year-old boy who watched his father, 2 uncles, & aunt shot in front of him.

@Matthew__Barber: 2) Little Ahmad’s family is not #Yazidi, but Shiite. There are very few Shi’i Kurds, but Ahmad’s uncle Ismail was the imam in #Sinjar city.

@Matthew__Barber: 3) In his young but clear voice, Ahmad described for me how his uncle rushed home from the mosque when the #IS attack began.

@Matthew__Barber: 4) Grabbing what belongings they could, they hurried to leave the city. They were several related families attempting to flee together.

@Matthew__Barber: 5) Up ahead, #IS vehicles intercepted them, suddenly blocking the road. Relatives believe local informants alerted IS of their departure.

@Matthew__Barber: 6) Armed and threatening, they ordered the men out of the cars. The family believed that as the Shi’i imam, Ismail was the main target.

@Matthew__Barber: 7) The #IS fighters made to seize Ismail, and the men felt that this was the moment of their last stand—overpower them or have throats cut.

@Matthew__Barber: 8) Ismail, Shakir (another of Ahmad’s uncles), and Mohammed (Ahmad’s father) were unarmed and tried to defend themselves barehanded.

@Matthew__Barber: 9) In the ensuing fisticuffs, Ismail wrested a gun away from a fighter, killed him & injured a second, before other fighters killed the men.

@Matthew__Barber: 10) IS fighters killed Ismail, Shakir, Mohammed, and Ahmad’s aunt, Sihan, who tried to pass a gun that was inside the car to her husband.

@Matthew__Barber: 11) At this point in the story, Ahmad—his tiny frame curled up on the mat across from me—lowered his forehead onto his knee and began to cry

@Matthew__Barber: 12) Comforting him, we moved on from the violence. No men survived the attack; what details Ahmad didn’t provide came from female survivors.

@Matthew__Barber: 13) The family had been on the run, hoping to flee the city for safety. They didn’t set out to attack #IS, but acted defensively.

@Matthew__Barber: 14) They claim they had no prior contact/conflict with #IS, but were targeted simply for being a religious family of local Shi’i leadership.

@Matthew__Barber: 15) After the killing, the #IS fighters stripped the women and children of all valuables, from gold earrings down to cellphones.

@Matthew__Barber: 16) The children & women (minus Ahmad’s aunt Sihan) were not killed, but couldn’t escape the mountain until the day before I met with them.

@Matthew__Barber: 17) Reunited w/ kin in Dohuk, the extended family—a refined bunch of teachers & professionals—now inhabit an unfinished, dirty cement shell.

@Matthew__Barber: 18) Around 100 people are now packed into the 3-story house w/out floors, electrical wiring, or running water. They have no place to bathe.

@Matthew__Barber: 19) They served me tea and gave me one of their few pillows to lean on. Traumatized, bereaved, and destitute, their hospitality yet lives on

@Matthew__Barber: 20) Ahmad, an 11-year-old Shiite boy from #Sinjar whose father, two uncles, and aunt were shot before his eyes:

@Matthew__Barber: 21) Ahmad, the oldest sibling of 5, with his sister, who also witnessed the shooting of their father.

@Matthew__Barber: 22) Ahmad smiles with his cousins in their new, austere environment:
 
I sense scepticism! There is no other road though. This time.

I keep a window for scepticism open but I generally expect things to go the way you indicate, especially as in the infancy of this thread I read stuff that indicated that Malikis government ignited this current cycle of sunni unrest by crushing protests.
 
Paddy Ashdown seems quite keen to factor in an end of the Sykes-Picot borders into his expectations:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/14/western-intervention-isis-iraq-muslim

So Paddy Ashdown, a relatively important player in the splitting of Yugoslavia, is now saying publicly that it's time to forget Sykes Picot & split Iraq (and perhaps Syria, too). And according to wiki (referencing live leaks) ISIS frontman Al Baghdadi has stated publicly that they intend to 'hit the last nail into the coffin of the Sykes Picot conspiracy'. So ISIS, possibly using western gear they picked up in Syria, have the same strategic aims as the US/UK, and provide the west with the humanitarian excuse they need to engage militarily in the area. This is a bit fucking odd, isn't it? Didn't the western powers encourage a pious Arab revolt last time they shuffled the deck in the region?
 
Didn't the western powers encourage a pious Arab revolt last time they shuffled the deck in the region?

Well, the Brits did, with Lawrence of fucking Arabia.

But it was more of an Arab revolt than pious - after all, it was against the Ottomans, and thus technically at least against the Caliphate.
 
This is a bit fucking odd, isn't it? Didn't the western powers encourage a pious Arab revolt last time they shuffled the deck in the region?

My first thought was that it seems a little incongruous to suggest righting the wrongs caused by imperialist foreign powers arbitrarily dividing up other peoples' lands for them by doing the same thing all over again.

Oh, I'm sure they'll do it better this time, but that's not really the point is it?
 
I'm not advocating grand narrative conspiracies. I'm not advocating anything - I'm just using this (terrific) thread to help me figure out what's what. The history of external manipulation in the region is staggering - googling Sykes led me to the revelation that he'd (probably) invented the Arab Revolt flag, the basis for the flags of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and half a dozen other nations the Arab Bureau were about to create as part of a treaty that would have remained secret without the Russian revolution. Now I need a drink to get my head round the fact that a flag I'd viewed as revolutionary in a Palestinian context was (probably) invented by the British empire.
 
My first thought was that it seems a little incongruous to suggest righting the wrongs caused by imperialist foreign powers arbitrarily dividing up other peoples' lands for them by doing the same thing all over again.

Oh, I'm sure they'll do it better this time, but that's not really the point is it?

Far better let the locals do it but without the IS or the western powers steering the outcome.
 
I'm not advocating grand narrative conspiracies. I'm not advocating anything - I'm just using this (terrific) thread to help me figure out what's what. The history of external manipulation in the region is staggering - googling Sykes led me to the revelation that he'd (probably) invented the Arab Revolt flag, the basis for the flags of Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and half a dozen other nations the Arab Bureau were about to create as part of a treaty that would have remained secret without the Russian revolution. Now I need a drink to get my head round the fact that a flag I'd viewed as revolutionary in a Palestinian context was (probably) invented by the British empire.

Not just flags they invented but even religions, the Bahai (allegedly) to sow discord, divide and rule etc.
 
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