Political Correctness

[Gmart]

Another thread got distracted by this book and its reviews, so I have copied the first few posts here, as it is better suited to here:

I'm currently reading a book on this subject called "The Retreat of Reason: Political Correctness and the Corruption of Public Debate in Modern Britain" (see here), it's about how political correctness and an almost luddite anti-logic/rationality attitude is dumbing down our society.

Dunno where you got that quote from, but it is actually really interesting.

From Index on Censorship, Vol. 35, No. 4, 2006, a review by Julian Petley. In full here. He really does not like the pamphlet one bit.

From Index on Censorship, Vol. 35, No. 4, 2006, a review by Julian Petley. In full here. He really does not like the pamphlet one bit.

Wow! He really doesn't

I don't agree with the whole article, but the last line is illustrative:

the BNP website is selling The Retreat of Reason, and why it is lauded there as a 'powerful critique of political (sic) correct thinking', 'long overdue' and an 'excellent read'. Curiously, this encomium is missing from the Amazon reviews page.

Which is a good point, and of course anything the BNP like we all have to dislike automatically.

Yet the book itself may indeed be grabbed by individuals with their own agenda, but Browne actually comments on this.

One of the stories he uses is that the infection of AIDS is down to African Immigrants coming over here and being diagnosed with AIDS, thus adding to our infection stats. He recognises that this could be used by the BNP, but states that this fact should not distract us from the facts. If AIDS is really being spread by African Immigrants then surely this should be advertised and damn political correctness.

And I am with him on that. Being PC shouldn 't distract us from the facts, whatever the consequences.

 

[DotCommunist]

Another thread got distracted by this book and its reviews, so I have copied the first few posts here, as it is better suited to here:










Wow! He really doesn't

I don't agree with the whole article, but the last line is illustrative:



Which is a good point, and of course anything the BNP like we all have to dislike automatically.

Yet the book itself may indeed be grabbed by individuals with their own agenda, but Browne actually comments on this.

One of the stories he uses is that the infection of AIDS is down to African Immigrants coming over here and being diagnosed with AIDS, thus adding to our infection stats. He recognises that this could be used by the BNP, but states that this fact should not distract us from the facts. If AIDS is really being spread by African Immigrants then surely this should be advertised and damn political correctness.

And I am with him on that. Being PC shouldn 't distract us from the facts, whatever the consequences.

of course not. But....well stuart lee puts it more succinctly than I can

 

[Gmart]

Except that Stuart starts with the phrase:

The kind of people who use the phrase 'political correctness gone mad are usually using the phrase as a cover to attack minorities they disagree with...

And that's not what we're talking about here, so it is irrelevant.

What we have here is political correctness actually stopping us from looking at the facts as they are.

If African Immigrants are a major factor in the spread of AIDS then we should be told, rather than have it swept under the mat by the PC brigade...

 

[camouflage]

Some interesting points. It's been noted that many pedophiles in this country are white males. It's about time we advertised this more in the education system to protect children, blast all that political correctness nonesense!


prat.

 

[DotCommunist]

of course we should, but where is the mythical PC brigade sweeping this under the carpet? I don't see them, or are they out busy policing the 'silent majority' lol

 

[quimcunx]

Being PC shouldn 't distract us from the facts

Agree.

whatever the consequences.

Agree only in a utopian world, which, if it existed, wouldn't require political correctness in the first place.

It would be good to state, matter of factly, that immigration by HIV people is something that increases the population within context and deal with that appropriately, as long as this wasn't used by writer or reader to (further) castigate a particular group, but it's not.



Political correctness is hardly the only thing to distract us from the facts.

Lots of things influence which facts are represented to us and how. Political correctness is, in part, an effort, to counterbalance some of these.


Stewart Lee is spot on too.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

£6.50 for a "small pamphlet"! another case of rip off Britain gone mad.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

This is such an old argument though - the idea that British institutions are controlled by a liberal / left-wing elite.

I remember Channel Four had a Banned season in the early 90s and they allowed half-an-hour for some right-winger to espouse these opinions...

As the reviewer points out, a lot of it is a phantom menace that doesn't exist, but occasional stupidity does infect official procedures... Most people though laugh it off as just that - stupid. People like Anthony Browne spend their waking hours fuming over it... as they see it as an ideological struggle.

 

[Gmart]

Stewart Lee is spot on too.

Of course he is, in that he is talking about a different subject...

I still maintain that the public has a right to be informed of the risks, and if the infection of AIDS is linked to African Immigrants then we should not prevent ourselves from recognising this.

This is really quite a simple point, and not worthy of such debate. It is a matter of balance. Recognising that Political correctness has a good lesson, but that it is not a complete answer to all problems.

 

[butchersapron]

Not worthy of debate? You started the thread and used it as your main supporting example.

 

[Gmart]

Noth worthy of debate? You stated the thread and used it as your main supoorting example.

How anti logic of me

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Does it suddenly turn into Tolstoy?

 

[Structaural]

:d

 

[ViolentPanda]

Does it suddenly turn into Tolstoy?

You've outed yourself now, Will.

 

[Gmart]

Accurately informing the population of the risks of life is one of the prime directives of government surely.

I would prefer accurate data, released to the press and discussed.

Indeed I might even suggest that such transparency is quite important.

 

[nino_savatte]

The phrase "Political correctness gone mad" is a fig leaf to conceal a range of hidden and not-so-hidden discourses about ethnicity, gender and sexuality. There is also a concomitant desire to roll back the clock to a time when calling a black or Asian person a "darkie" was acceptable and treating women as the inferior sex was the norm.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Accurately informing the population of the risks of life is one of the prime directives of government surely.

I would prefer accurate data, released to the press and discussed.

Indeed I might even suggest that such transparency is quite important.

Exactly how is this statement of the bleedin obvious supposed to be used? The continent of Africa has far higher levels of HIV infection than any other continent. Therefore, of all immigrants into any country, those from the continent of Africa will have the highest level of infection by far. Well fuck me.

 

[Pigeon]

Exactly how is this statement of the bleedin obvious supposed to be used? The continent of Africa has far higher levels of HIV infection than any other continent. Therefore, of all immigrants into any country, those from the continent of Africa will have the highest level of infection by far. Well fuck me.

Quite. And which is a very, very different point to ugly piece of racist smearing that GMarthews spouts, to the effect that African immigrants are spreading HIV.

And if he wants a proper discussion about infection control, it's a fact that African women are being forced into prostituion as the direct result of immigration policies leaving them homeless and destitute on the UK's streets- and consequently, obviously, putting them at increased risk of infection. Does he blame "political correctness" for the media silence on that little beauty?

 

[Gmart]

ugly piece of racist smearing

And the pattern continues.

I don't discriminate against anyone because of the colour of their skin.

If there was ANY country which had a high incidence of AIDS and HIV, then with immigration, as has been noted here already by others, this would aid the spread. If the infection rates in the UK are down to this as has been suggested, then this, along with the condom based safe sex message should be known by the population. Informing the population of the risks they face is far and away more important than pandering to the PC brigade. To insult me just shows how against free open debate you are, especially when it is a pretty obvious point I am making, see here for the UN Health Officials Saying the same thing.

it's a fact that African women are being forced into prostitution...

I have long been in favour of the legalisation of this industry to bring more power to the workers and to enable better control of disease. (See this thread)

 

[Gmart]

The phrase "Political correctness gone mad" is a fig leaf to conceal a range of hidden and not-so-hidden discourses about ethnicity, gender and sexuality. There is also a concomitant desire to roll back the clock to a time when calling a black or Asian person a "darkie" was acceptable and treating women as the inferior sex was the norm.

I just don't buy this. The implication of what you are saying is that political correctness can never go too far...

Or worse that it is immune to all criticism.

 

[fela fan]

Which is a good point, and of course anything the BNP like we all have to dislike automatically.

I'm not sure about that.

I think it better to listen carefully to their language use within the context they speak about, then you can make the attempt to answer their horrible persuasions with a better clarity of reply.

 

[fela fan]

Except that Stuart starts with the phrase:


And that's not what we're talking about here, so it is irrelevant.

What we have here is political correctness actually stopping us from looking at the facts as they are.

If African Immigrants are a major factor in the spread of AIDS then we should be told, rather than have it swept under the mat by the PC brigade...

Indeed.

I read that the government have banned the use of 'obese' in reports by teachers of children at school. They have to say instead 'over-weight'.

Orwell called it political language that is designed to shut down thinking: both in the speaker (ie the politician), and his/her audience.

PC is exactly that.

 

[fela fan]

Gmarthews

Good posts.

 

[Autonomous]

The phrase "Political correctness gone mad" is a fig leaf to conceal a range of hidden and not-so-hidden discourses about ethnicity, gender and sexuality. There is also a concomitant desire to roll back the clock to a time when calling a black or Asian person a "darkie" was acceptable and treating women as the inferior sex was the norm.

Good post. Pretty much all the papers and individuals who cry about political correctness are pushing jingoistic, sexist, homophobic, anti-labour, Queen and country, law 'n' order rubbish. 'Political correctness' is a great way of avoiding criticism for pushing nasty views. If I call someone on their racist language or sexist behaviour they can turn around and call me 'PC' and that makes it my problem and not theirs. They're not racist or sexist, it's just that I'm PC. Pretty clever if you think about it.

Having said that, there are a few clueless middle class types who like to think they're helping by trying to push bizzarre bits of language and behaviour. And some people on the Left think they can make prejudice go away by shutting down debate, which is crazy. But if you read Private Eye they sometimes show how the gutter press spin or just manufacture a lot of these 'mad' stories.

 

[nino_savatte]

I just don't buy this. The implication of what you are saying is that political correctness can never go too far...

Or worse that it is immune to all criticism.

No, that is not what I'm saying. The very phrase "political correctness" is itself a problematic. However those that claim that "political correctness is going mad" often do so because they see no problem in abusing others on the grounds of ethnicity or gender....that has been my experience. I think it is also used in order to close down discourses/debates as well as hide certain discourses from view.

 

[nino_savatte]

Good post. Pretty much all the papers and individuals who cry about political correctness are pushing jingoistic, sexist, homophobic, anti-labour, Queen and country, law 'n' order rubbish. 'Political correctness' is a great way of avoiding criticism for pushing nasty views. If I call someone on their racist language or sexist behaviour they can turn around and call me 'PC' and that makes it my problem and not theirs. They're not racist or sexist, it's just that I'm PC. Pretty clever if you think about it.

Having said that, there are a few clueless middle class types who like to think they're helping by trying to push bizzarre bits of language and behaviour. And some people on the Left think they can make prejudice go away by shutting down debate, which is crazy. But if you read Private Eye they sometimes show how the gutter press spin or just manufacture a lot of these 'mad' stories.

Quite. I think what some of these people object to is civility and tolerance towards others as well as wanting to be able to abuse others without the fear of criticism.

IIRC, the phrase, PC, was coined in the US to shut down any discourses that came from the Left...it's a form of Newspeak really.

Curiously enough, the Right also have their own forms of political correctness.

 

[Y_I_Otter]

"Political correctness", it seems to me, is the just preferred catch-all euphemism for terms like "respect", "compassion" and "kindness" for use by people who have no interest in cultivating those concepts in themselves.

 

[Autonomous]

Curiously enough, the Right also have their own forms of political correctness.

Fuckin' eh. Any criticism of Israel and you're called a racist. You dare to point out the obvious wisdom of keeping religious fictions out of schools and you're accused of 'religious intolerance'. But if you dare to call them on their views you're a PC fascist!

 

[nino_savatte]

Fuckin' eh. Any criticism of Israel and you're called a racist. You dare to point out the obvious wisdom of keeping religious fictions out of schools and you're accused of 'religious intolerance'. But if you dare to call them on their views you're a PC fascist!

Yep.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

of course not. But....well stuart lee puts it more succinctly than I can

He's now incorporating that into a 9 min bit in his stand up routine. It even includes Littlejohn bashing at the end. It's as if it were written for U75:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K21e7po1Sro