Please help me make a decision about buying houses

[beesonthewhatnow]

The bigger house we have agreed to £290k but I think she could probably get £310k for it if she put it back on the market now.
The smaller house is £280k. It would be a comfortable mortgage.

I do really like the smaller house so it's not like we'd be going with something terrible. The location is better, especially for me as I don't drive and am the one who does all the school runs and activities.
The garden is bigger.
The living space downstairs is better/bigger and I think we could fairly easily extend to the side for a utility/downstairs toilet.

I went for a second viewing today though and the agent told me it is no longer chain free The vendors were planning on going in to MoD accomodation but have now decided to buy somewhere "up north".

Less money, better location, bigger garden and bigger living space sound like they’re giving you an answer here, to mind mind anyway. I’d go for that rather than potentially months more faff waiting for someone else to sort their new build.

 

[Thora]

Less money, better location, bigger garden and bigger living space sound like they’re giving you an answer here, to mind mind anyway. I’d go for that rather than potentially months more faff waiting for someone else to sort their new build.

Yeah I am leaning that way. Mr Thora is concerned about kids having to share bedrooms long term though.

 

[Riklet]

Sorry to hear you've been so unlucky. If you can get money knocked off and then exchange it might be worth waiting a few months. they will not want to agree to a written deadline though. So how long could that be? You could be assertive and demand a deadline though. Or you could say no and they need to get out and complete asap or youre pulling out. Estate agent wont want the sale to fall through.. you dont even need to threaten you can just say your worry and how you are now considering looking at other properties etc etc initially.

My Dad's advice was to never leave an offer on the table. There is a lot or pressure put on buyers about it being a tough market, cash buyers out there, prices rising etc. All these things can be used to boss you around and make you compromise. But you are always in quite a strong position if you're a legit buyer with some money and a mortgage agreement, so have confidence and dont let the whole thing make you sick with worry.

As for which house, personally I would spend more and get the bigger place after seeing the figures you've quoted. Might as well spend at your limit at the moment. For me with the smaller house there's warning bells the vendors changing their plans too, they sound flaky. You might as well put an offer in though and go for it anyway and see how they respond.

 

[MickiQ]

Yeah I am leaning that way. Mr Thora is concerned about kids having to share bedrooms long term though.

What about expanding upwards? Could the loft be converted?

 

[Badgers]

Yeah I am leaning that way. Mr Thora is concerned about kids having to share bedrooms long term though.

Having read the thread that would be my first concern. A property/land is a lifetime investment. You will gain money long term but might also reduce your options as kids grow up.

Ten years ago I would say just buy it. Now I am single with no kids and would go for it.

I don't see any crash in the UK market for a very long time. If I was your advisor I would say you should buy now and look at options in a few years.

That ^ might sound trite or guesswork but the economy and world we live in is near impossible to predict.

 

[Pickman's model]

What about expanding upwards? Could the loft be converted?

or downwards...

 

[Thora]

Loft is a possibility. I haven’t seen it but it is apparently boarded and has lights & a ladder.

The other slightly odd thing is that most of the garden to the side of the house actually belongs to the water board rather than the property. According to the estate agent this has never been a problem for the last two owners. They have full use of the garden but obviously can’t build on it.
Do you think this would be a problem?

 

[Sue]

Kids having their own room and not sharing is surely a reasonably new thing? It was certainly absolutely standard in the past. (I shared with both my sisters -- first time I had my own room was when i left home. Same for all my friends.)

 

[MickiQ]

Kids having their own room and not sharing is surely a reasonably new thing? It was certainly absolutely standard in the past. (I shared with both my sisters -- first time I had my own room was when i left home. Same for all my friends.)

I shared a room with my brother when I was young and my two sisters shared another and none of us considered this odd. The world has moved on though since then, we moved to our current house so our then three children could have a bedroom each.
This plan promptly came unstuck when Mrs Q got pregnant with our fourth and last but fortunately extending the kitchen and adding the family room rendered the original dining room obsolete and it was re-purposed into Son's bedroom. (I did offer it to Eldest but she thought being downstairs would put her at a disadvantage competing against her sister for the bathroom)
I do think that a bedroom each is beneficial for a child's development especially allowing them some truly personal space that they don't have to share with someone else.
Yes I understand that not every family can afford a bedroom per sprog and there are loads of entire families sharing a room but if she can afford it to be a consideration I can fully understand why Thora wants a per room per sprog.

 

[Thora]

I'm not totally wedded to the idea of a room each (two share at the moment) but it would be great if possible. Mr Thora was an only child so grew up having his own space.

 

[scifisam]

I'd be inclined to exchange and wait. You don't know if the other house is going to end up having structural issues that turn up on a survey, shitty neighbours, a seller who suddenly decides not to sell or up the price... At least with the bigger house you just have to complete and wait, shitty as it is to have to do that. And then you probably won't have to go through this entire ball-ache ever again.

Kids having their own room and not sharing is surely a reasonably new thing? It was certainly absolutely standard in the past. (I shared with both my sisters -- first time I had my own room was when i left home. Same for all my friends.)

It's less than ideal if you have another option, especially since kids stay at home longer these days. Them having a room each also means a guest (Grandma or whatever) can stay in one of their rooms while they share temporarily. The size of the room makes a big difference though.

 

[Sue]

It's less than ideal if you have another option, especially since kids stay at home longer these days. Them having a room each also means a guest (Grandma or whatever) can stay in one of their rooms while they share temporarily. The size of the room makes a big difference though.

Yeah but if a four bed is too expensive, the alternative isn't terrible.

 

[scifisam]

Yeah but if a four bed is too expensive, the alternative isn't terrible.

Not at all, assuming it stays at that price. Plus the new survey and fees and stuff would eat up some of that ten grand saving.

Not that I've ever bought a house, just wished too much that I could.

 

[WouldBe]

Loft is a possibility. I haven’t seen it but it is apparently boarded and has lights & a ladder.

The other slightly odd thing is that most of the garden to the side of the house actually belongs to the water board rather than the property. According to the estate agent this has never been a problem for the last two owners. They have full use of the garden but obviously can’t build on it.
Do you think this would be a problem?
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Seems a bit strange the waterboard own that bit of land. I'd contact the waterboard and see if there was a possibility to buy and what restrictions there would be to build on it.

 

[cybershot]

Once you've exchanged the vendor can't really pull out (well, they can, but it's unusual, and you can sue them for consequential losses), so that worry isn't one to have if you go down the route they want. You both get certainty (which the vendor is desperate for as well because they've committed to completing on the new build as soon as it's finished!).

You'd want to update your mortgage offer to extend to past the date set for completion before exchanging though, just in case. Speak to whoever is arranging it for you (ie either a broker or a bank mortgage person direct I would guess?) and explain the situation.

Unusual for the first reply to be the most sensible, but prunus know's their stuff when it comes to this sort of thing from other threads.

This is what I would do also even after reading the whole thread.

 

[mauvais]

Not to pour cold water on your plans but skim reading this thread, you say you have been loaned, not given, deposit money by a relative.

How far have you got with actual mortgage applications to date? More than an agreement in principle?

Mortgage companies will want to see that this relative signs away all rights to that money or else they would become a joint lender along with the mortgage co, which is a huge mess and not proceedable. Is that going to be OK with your relative?

 

[Thora]

Not to pour cold water on your plans but skim reading this thread, you say you have been loaned, not given, deposit money by a relative.

How far have you got with actual mortgage applications to date? More than an agreement in principle?

Mortgage companies will want to see that this relative signs away all rights to that money or else they would become a joint lender along with the mortgage co, which is a huge mess and not proceedable. Is that going to be OK with your relative?

We have a mortgage offer and yes the loan vs gift thing did make it more complicated. We went through a broker and there was only one lender (Nationwide) who were happy to proceed on the basis of it being a loan.
We have a separate loan agreement with the relative so the money plus a share of equity goes back to them.

 

[mauvais]

Ah fair - I didn't think that was feasible, glad to hear that bit's working out. Reading more I see you got to almost exchange.

 

[Thora]

The mortgage process has not been easy at all especially as when we first applied last year I was self-employed, had been on maternity leave in one of the years they used to calculate income and I'd taken the SEISS covid grants which was an automatic no for some lenders. It was a bit more straightforward the second time as I'm employed now.

 

[equationgirl]

Seems a bit strange the waterboard own that bit of land. I'd contact the waterboard and see if there was a possibility to buy and what restrictions there would be to build on it.

I'd want to know what's under the surface (like a wide bore mains pipe, for example) and what the restrictions are on the land. Also if there are any access rights in the event of a pipe burst, and if the water board would restore the land to its original condition. All of this should be documented in the property deeds but no harm in making sure.

 

[Thora]

After pushing the estate agents a bit more on what "chain free" meant with the smaller one it turns out they'd told me a complete load of bollocks and actually the vendors are likely to be buying somewhere within the next 12 months, not in a rush at all.
So that one is off the table and we will be sticking with the tortuous new build at least for the time being.

 

[Badgers]

The mortgage process has not been easy at all especially as when we first applied last year I was self-employed, had been on maternity leave in one of the years they used to calculate income and I'd taken the SEISS covid grants which was an automatic no for some lenders. It was a bit more straightforward the second time as I'm employed now.

We dislike 'agents and middlemen' here on Urban but a good mortgage broker is a good investment generally.

They know the lenders tricks and often the incoming deals etc.

Which? are a useful resource as ever:

Mortgages - Which?

Whether you want to learn how mortgages work or are actively searching for a deal, our mortgage guides will help you find the best solution for your needs.

www.which.co.uk

 

[Brainaddict]

After pushing the estate agents a bit more on what "chain free" meant with the smaller one it turns out they'd told me a complete load of bollocks and actually the vendors are likely to be buying somewhere within the next 12 months, not in a rush at all.
So that one is off the table and we will be sticking with the tortuous new build at least for the time being.

Ha, typical bollocks, I genuinely think it ought to be illegal for estate agents to lie about houses for sale. Along with the vendors. And a whole other bunch of other changes that need to be made to the house-buying system. The people my co-op bought this house off thought they had found a chain-free house so we were all ready to go, then it turned out the vendors of that house had just outright lied. They were in a chain. They'd just lied and hoped it would all work out at the right moment. Which of course it didn't.

 

[WouldBe]

I'd want to know what's under the surface (like a wide bore mains pipe, for example) and what the restrictions are on the land.

I did wonder about that but there are houses built over the line of any pipework just along the road.

 

[hash tag]

Surely you'd exchange with a fixed completion date. If their new-build isn't ready by that date they'd still need to move out and rent somewhere or live with friends/family.

Sounds like a good idea if your mortgage offer can be extended, but what does your solicitior say on the matter - I'd be guided by them.

No. This is something commonly employed by builders of new builds and it is just passed down the chain. A perfectly normal thing to do.

I don't necessarily mind waiting 6 months, but my fear is that if for some reason it doesn't happen, in 6 months we won't be able to afford a 3 bed house which is the absolute bottom line what we need.
There are currently 3 bed terraces being advertised for £300k+ where we are

4 bits of paper property A + & - property b + & -

The land at the side of the property is something that your solicitors should sort for you. If the house owners had use of it for years, there is no reason that you wont continue
to have use of it.

Good luck.

 

[Thora]

Ha, typical bollocks, I genuinely think it ought to be illegal for estate agents to lie about houses for sale. Along with the vendors. And a whole other bunch of other changes that need to be made to the house-buying system. The people my co-op bought this house off thought they had found a chain-free house so we were all ready to go, then it turned out the vendors of that house had just outright lied. They were in a chain. They'd just lied and hoped it would all work out at the right moment. Which of course it didn't.

I think in this case the estate agents just half listened to the vendors and then made up the rest - so they told me the vendor was being posted up north (army) so they were selling up and going into MoD accommodation there. Actually the vendor is from up north, is posted here but is now leaving the army and buying somewhere back home.
Apparently he has given the army 12 months notice and if they buy somewhere up north this year, his wife and kids will move to be nearer family and he is prepared to finish out his 12 months in MoD accommodation here.
It's all too much uncertainty though and I can see it taking longer for them to buy or there not being accommodation available for him or them just deciding to stay in their house here til December.

 

[prunus]

In my, unfortunately extensive, professional experience with estate agents, I’ve found that one has to assume that anything they say bears at best a passing association with the truth, until independently verified.

If an estate agent wished me good morning I’d immediately check my watch.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

We dislike 'agents and middlemen' here on Urban but a good mortgage broker is a good investment generally.

They know the lenders tricks and often the incoming deals etc.

Which? are a useful resource as ever:

Mortgages - Which?

Whether you want to learn how mortgages work or are actively searching for a deal, our mortgage guides will help you find the best solution for your needs.

www.which.co.uk

I’d have been absolutely fucked buying my flat if it hadn’t been for my mortgage broker being far more on the case and informative to me than any of the solicitors involved. They really earned their money and I’m so glad I used them.

 

[trashpony]

Is the water board house the MoD one or the new build one?

I’d go with pushing for exchange. If you can stay where you are, then at least you know things are moving forward. With the other one, you could be back where you were last year.

The market is forecast to keep going up, albeit more slowly, so I’d get going while you can. In 5 years, you may be able to get the 4 bedroom house with a utility.

 

[1927]

The bigger house we have agreed to £290k but I think she could probably get £310k for it if she put it back on the market now.
The smaller house is £280k. It would be a comfortable mortgage.

I do really like the smaller house so it's not like we'd be going with something terrible. The location is better, especially for me as I don't drive and am the one who does all the school runs and activities.
The garden is bigger.
The living space downstairs is better/bigger and I think we could fairly easily extend to the side for a utility/downstairs toilet.

I went for a second viewing today though and the agent told me it is no longer chain free The vendors were planning on going in to MoD accomodation but have now decided to buy somewhere "up north".

I'd get on the property ladder sooner rather than later, the vendor is basically in a no risk situation> she has you on the hook and if she decides she wants more money she can sell to someone else, but knowing she has you in her back pocket if other options fall through. You'd then be another 8 months down the line, with no house and prices potentially out of reach by such a margin that you'll never be able to afford to buy. Buy the cheaper house and make it work, if you need some more room then consider using the savings on an extension at some point.