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Plane Stupid shut down Stansted Airport

This is quite a long post but i would like to add to to this as a long term activisty sort that did work based around consumption, ecology, peak oil and permaculture.

A couple of years ago i probably would have thought 'great! it's raising awareness!' when reading about the plane stupid actions. And probably when reading posts by DLR and others would have thought ' fcking hell going on and on about w/class, how 80s! '

But over the past couple years, you could see the climate change debate going mainstream (GOOD!) but then the response mainly seemed to be making a new market from carbon emissions (BAD!) and government adverts suggesting that people turn off the lights. Then you head into the shops and see places with the lights on all the time, sometimes with each commodity lit by its own lightbulb. And various class warrior sorts would say ' you see - capital is trying to push the cost of the ecological crises onto the working class. It's called austerity and it means that life gets harder for the majority with no real change' and i went 'well thats interesting' and investigated a bit more about all this class stuff.
And it turns out that it's not about accents, flat caps, whippets, pigeons or whether you work down t'pit. And that it is really worth trying to separate the party politics vanguardy sort from the more grassroots autonomous sort, one lot are a lot more friendlier than the others in terms of getting shot after the revolution etc

From where I sit the UKs working class is not going to be on planes in Stanstead, they are working in steal mills in Indonesia, iron mines in Papua New Guniea and toy factories in China. The UK now mostly has the well off of the ruling class and the losers amoung the ruling class.

There is no solidarity in sharing poverty. The exclusion of working class people in developing countries from wealth is not the result of the actions of working class people in the UK. There have been specific investment decisions , normally between those with Capital, the ruling classes of both north and south. I see parallels between say the gleaming Docklands surrounded by decaying social public infrastructure over here , and some of the new chinese megacities with skyscrapers and shanty towns in close proximity. So whilst over here the working class earn vastly more than those in the shanty towns, the relationship between employer and employee is the same. Rewind 100 years here and maybe you could say that materially conditions were the same but guess what - we got organised and conditions improved. And the same is happening now in china. which is why the chinese state and capital is starting to invest in africa. the same pattern again and again.

I think that when people bang on about class it's not because they are fetishising the working class, or think 'they' are perfect or anything like that. It is more a recognition that 'work' STILL dominates our lives. And this 'work' is based around wages, capital and profit. How and what this work actually is is determined by class interests. It's really simple. There has been a 3 decade long class war in the UK and USA.

When profit was threatened in the 70's, manufacturing (which was 70% of the UK economy) went abroad, and thats why we we now have a 70% service economy in the UK. The vast amounts of pollution generated from shipping commodities back here is a result of the profits that manufactors have made by exploiting workers and relocating to the east.

If we made stuff we needed here then there would be incredible cuts in CO2. But i can't wake up tomorrow and go 'Oh - i would like there not to be a service economy, i would like to make socially useful products in an ecological way'. Well i could - but then i would need to go to work and make some money for someone else to invest in the most profitable way that they see fit. Which probably won't be making socially useful products in an ecological way. So as an individual i don't have this power. But by building solidarity with others in the same position you do have power.

But this is vastly more difficult and unimaginable than targetting the end of the chain, consumer choices of what products and services. But all these class forces determine access to consumer goods. So basically the big hoo haa about 'cheap flights' means an inherent acceptance that therefore the way to go is 'expensive flights'. So in many ways it's a defeat. Because it is saying that those who have enough money have the right to pollute.

Also just to make clear - this doesn't mean that you are arguing for the right of everyone to pollute and consume more ok - its fcking obvious that consumption and energy use is a problem. I think i am trying to say that ecological degradation is a by product of this system and not the aggregate of individual consumer choices.
 
OK despite my earlier rantings about class warriors, recent posts have explained things to me, cheers.

I still suspect there will not be a strong mass movement against climate change, rather that economic woes and failures of certain parts of capitalist systems will destroy much consumption. Then we may see mass movements against the devastating effects of this. People will be rather miffed that their consumption has been curtailed, that theyve lost their jobs, that capitalism has failed them in a more direct and obvious way, and the injustice that a few can still afford the unsustainable lifestyle. If there is no access to electricity, or only at a stupidly high price, then I can imagine the masses campaigning for renewables. I find it less likely that the masses will campaign for renewables now, where there isnt a really obvious shortage of supply, and where despite rising energy bills, renewables are seen as a possibly expensive and unreliable option that the workers cannot afford to support? OK I have painted this in terms that are too black & whte, but hopefully I am making a shred of sense.

Capitalism is under some strain right now, it is going to attempt to regenerate itself into a slightly different form of capitalism, its going to be interesting to see what happens, in an ugly and unsettling sort of way.
 
just thought id share this comment left on my blog

I was down at Alex’s party on monday morning where things were very tense. Fortunately the mornings mood was lifted when some plane stoopid demonstrators who had turned up handed their banner to the Police so they could ‘look after it in their van’, a group of us went to remonstrate with the filth thinking they were ‘arresting a banner’ but then heard these twats saying to the copper, ‘yah like we totally understand, yeah can we pick it up when we leave? They fucked off after about 15 minutes anyway, good fucking riddence and i hope they choked on their mokachocalattefrappachino-useless fucking waste of air
 
Then we may see mass movements against the devastating effects of this. People will be rather miffed that their consumption has been curtailed, that theyve lost their jobs, that capitalism has failed them in a more direct and obvious way,

i think this is the key. If we organise where we live, with our friends and maybe , maybe even our neighbours by resisting bailiffs, helping with work and debt issues and access to benefits, all that kind of thing daily life stuff. THEN all what we are saying about acting on climate change stops being an abstract issue with no constituency except the state, it has a basis in solidarities and the means of getting there. Obviously thats a long term thing tho - and climate change means it feels like we don't have time to try and build these sorts of networks. But look at italy, greece, shit can happen really really fast. It didn't come out of nowhere either.
 
i think this is the key. If we organise where we live, with our friends and maybe , maybe even our neighbours by resisting bailiffs, helping with work and debt issues and access to benefits, all that kind of thing daily life stuff. THEN all what we are saying about acting on climate change stops being an abstract issue with no constituency except the state, it has a basis in solidarities and the means of getting there.
Absolutely. That's where my activism is directed: towards community self-management/ self-reliance.

And, incidentally, it's why I get pissed off at liberals who fuck up the hard work of good people by putting causes back when they selfishly sail in creating ill-will with their float-free tactics.
 
i think this is the key. If we organise where we live, with our friends and maybe , maybe even our neighbours by resisting bailiffs, helping with work and debt issues and access to benefits, all that kind of thing daily life stuff. THEN all what we are saying about acting on climate change stops being an abstract issue with no constituency except the state, it has a basis in solidarities and the means of getting there. Obviously thats a long term thing tho - and climate change means it feels like we don't have time to try and build these sorts of networks. But look at italy, greece, shit can happen really really fast. It didn't come out of nowhere either.
sorry, run this one by me again... the way to tackle climate change is not by campaigning at all on any issue related to climate change, it's to spent all our energies concentrating on winning the support of local communities by working with them on totally unrelated issues, then hoping they'll eventually magically see the light and support the campaign to prevent climate change.... well I must say the logic of that arguement is flawless.

While I am happy to support the other stuff you talk about, it can and should happen in tandem with high profile climate change campaigns targeting obvious high profile targets such as the new runways at Heathrow and Stansted. To expect 50 activists to do enough community based work to convert a significant proportion of the working class to their cause prior to it being OK for them to actually do anything to change government policy on airport expansion daft, and a recipe for inaction if ever I heard one.
 
the way to tackle climate change is not by campaigning at all on any issue related to climate change, it's to spent all our energies concentrating on winning the support of local communities by working with them on totally unrelated issues, then hoping they'll eventually magically see the light and support the campaign to prevent climate change
No, that's not it either.
 
Well the babbling in my last post probably shows that Im annoyed and confused about class politics.

The horrible history of injustice in this country, along with social immobility and rapid change in the sense of self & community, makes it hard for me to dismiss class issues as irrelevant today. But they dont half get in the way of things, whether it be through division and hate, or sponsoring a series of oversimplified and bloody solutions.

I look at the USA and whilst I wouldnt describe them as a classless society, its interesting to see how having less class hangups affects their politics and debates. With one less hurdle in the way they sometimes achieve far more, although Im sure there are plenty of occasions where Americans have been screwed due to an absence of class awareness.

Potential state involvement with groups has certainly not helped my cynicism over the years, and sometimes it is tempting to believe that a rather simplistic divide and conquer strategy takes hold in this land, keep those at the bottom hating the buffer in the middle, and vica versa, so the top can carry on with relative immunity.

Anyway I clearly dont believe class issues help the climate change or peak oil problems, all classes are to blame and will suffer as we transition. Ive received some criticism in environmental, energy & economic threads for sounding too liberal or wanting to crap on the working class. This only makes me more determined not to care what class anybody is, I want everyone to be warm and fed in difficult times, I want the planet and humanity to survive, I dont want us to slaughter each other. I suspect there are people of all classes who have similar desires, therefore class warriors can either stick a solar panel where the sun does shine, or get out of the way as far as Im concerned.

OK despite my earlier rantings about class warriors, recent posts have explained things to me, cheers.

I still suspect there will not be a strong mass movement against climate change, rather that economic woes and failures of certain parts of capitalist systems will destroy much consumption. Then we may see mass movements against the devastating effects of this. People will be rather miffed that their consumption has been curtailed, that theyve lost their jobs, that capitalism has failed them in a more direct and obvious way, and the injustice that a few can still afford the unsustainable lifestyle. If there is no access to electricity, or only at a stupidly high price, then I can imagine the masses campaigning for renewables. I find it less likely that the masses will campaign for renewables now, where there isnt a really obvious shortage of supply, and where despite rising energy bills, renewables are seen as a possibly expensive and unreliable option that the workers cannot afford to support? OK I have painted this in terms that are too black & whte, but hopefully I am making a shred of sense.

Capitalism is under some strain right now, it is going to attempt to regenerate itself into a slightly different form of capitalism, its going to be interesting to see what happens, in an ugly and unsettling sort of way.

I agree with most of what is said in these two posts.

As regards the Plane Stupid actions - there are two main objections to them being expressed on this thread as far as I can make out. Firstly the suggestion that it was a strategic error, as argued by Kyser who may or may not be right about it being ineffective in getting the desired message to the right people.

Secondly the more fundamental objection coming from Danny La Rouge and others which in simple terms seems to be that all the issues to do with climate change can only really be solved as part of a much bigger picture which would involve major social change including getting rid of capitalism and hence the whole "class" issue. They reckon that trying to tinker with the existing system is missing the point and a distraction from the larger project.

Well, I can see the argument in theory, and I also have plenty sympathy for the point of view that the current capitalist system relying on the idea of economic growth is inevitably going to continue to compound the problems we are starting to face with CO2 emissions and in the depletion of natural resources in general.

However - where I fundamentally differ from the point of view of DLR is that I simply don't believe the kind of "revolution" the class warrior types want to see is ever going to take place. It simply is not sellable to the main body of people whose support would be needed to make it happen, and furthermore I don't even believe it would actually work in practice. I do agree that some, possibly quite significant, changes are likely to be forced upon the current system in the future but these will come out of economic and technological necessity rather than as a result of some sort of popular political movement. I imagine those changes are going to be rather uncomfortable for a lot of people. As far as I am concerned, the green agenda is all about trying to foresee these, and start making the changes as early as we can, in an attempt to lessen the pain of the changes when they become absolutely inavoidable.

From my point of view the most pragmatic approach is to do all we can to tinker with what we have; and to tinker as much as popular opinion is going to allow. As far as I am concerned, waiting for the revolution to happen is a waste of time and energy. We can only do as much tinkering as mainstream opinion is going to tolerate, and therefore I think that it is mainstream opinion that we need to try and influence. As far as I can see, trying to convert mainstream opinion to the "class warrior cause" is a complete dead end. And in fact, tying the "green" agenda up with other more radical political ideas only serves to put "mainstream" people off.

I realise that taking this approach means that I am accused of being a "liberal" but I don't care. If that is what I am so be it; to me it is not a derogatory term. My opinions are probably more "mainstream" than many posters on here but I am fairly sure they are less so than the bulk of the population. If no-one is able to convince me that there exists a workable system that can wholly replace capitalism, there is surely no hope of selling it to the masses.
 
To expect 50 activists to do enough community based work to convert a significant proportion of the working class to their cause prior to it being OK for them to actually do anything to change government policy on airport expansion daft, and a recipe for inaction if ever I heard one.

If all there is is 50 activists willing take action against airport expansion then surely that suggests something worth taking note of, no?

Incidentally, whilst the "turn to the community" is good, we have to remember that in many places there is no community and there is a danger for activists to busy themselves setting up "community schemes" for nobody except themselves. :(. We need to be clear about what we mean by by what we say we do. In workplaces, in communities, in direct action, in electoral politics, in protests and awareness raising. Too often activists are too focussed on activity and not enough on being "reflexive" about their practise as it were.

Sometimes "inaction" is good. Sometimes its worth stopping. Taking a look around and listening to what non-political, non-activist people are saying - and not just to try and campaign on that either, but to place the activists' own desires and demands within a wider context.

In this case, its worth considering why people are still flying, still using budget airlines etc. and what people think about climate change and our way of life. Plane Stupid may well be right, the more important question is how (or indeed whether) they can win.
 
An example would be:

You work in a large company that flys people around a lot. You organise internally to demonstrate to the company that by using alternatives (v-confering, skype, trains), they can save money, save stress-related time off (flying loads stresses you out, especially if you're stuck in cattle class all the time), it will also reduce their carbon emissions, thus gaining them cash in carbon trading allowances as well as being able to slap 'We're Green!' shit all over their literature, get them some easy PR...

That's community work.
 
No, that's not it either.

go on then danny, enlighten me. How would you propose a successful campaign to prevent the current government backed plans to enable a continued rapid expansion of air travel from and through the UK via the building of new runways at Heathrow and Stansted should be mounted?
 
The ideal campaign is in your own community with your own peers. The ideal is bottom-up, not top-down. The idea is not to ‘convert’ people, but together to bring about practical changes for your own community. This is known as direct action. It is practical, and it builds the confidence in people that we can make a real difference ourselves; that we don’t need to plead with those in power to do it for us.

Of course there can be single issue campaigns, but these need to be very careful about their tactics, and all-the-more need to ensure that those tactics are borne of a sound understanding of how society works. If there is a strong, healthy spread of community activism, those people will pick up on stuff that's going on and run with it. If, however, society has become so atomised that Thatcher's wish has come true, then we really are stuffed.

I'm not going to quote any more writers at you. There's stuff you can read to give more depth and substance to this, but the point is that resistance has to be autonomous, we have to understand how networks get into motion, and how mobility is capable of proliferating. But if we don't have the material conditions, the population will not seize the moment.
 
If all there is is 50 activists willing take action against airport expansion then surely that suggests something worth taking note of, no?
er no.

what it suggests is that those 50 activists should concentrate on the most effective way they can utilise their numbers to achieve their target.

option 1 - spread out into the community doing good works in the hope that the community will come round to their way of thinking sometime before runway 3 is built at Stansted, by which time most of the activists will have become utterly demoralised and given up on the organisation as an inefectual waste of space.

option 2 - actually get out there and do something to raise the profile of the issue and campaign as high as possible.

I make no apologies for thinking option 2 is the correct option, and let's face it, it's not exactly like environmentalists haven't also been doing option 1 for decades is it.
 
er no.

what it suggests is that those 50 activists should concentrate on the most effective way they can utilise their numbers to achieve their target.

option 1 - spread out into the community doing good works in the hope that the community will come round to their way of thinking sometime before runway 3 is built at Stansted, by which time most of the activists will have become utterly demoralised and given up on the organisation as an inefectual waste of space.

option 2 - actually get out there and do something to raise the profile of the issue and campaign as high as possible.

I make no apologies for thinking option 2 is the correct option, and let's face it, it's not exactly like environmentalists haven't also been doing option 1 for decades is it.


But its not that choice is it?

Its about what will work.

...and why.

Profile on its own acheives absolutely nothing.
 
The ideal campaign is in your own community with your own peers. The ideal is bottom-up, not top-down. The idea is not to ‘convert’ people, but together to bring about practical changes for your own community. This is known as direct action. It is practical, and it builds the confidence in people that we can make a real difference ourselves; that we don’t need to plead with those in power to do it for us.

Of course there can be single issue campaigns, but these need to be very careful about their tactics, and all-the-more need to ensure that those tactics are borne of a sound understanding of how society works. If there is a strong, healthy spread of community activism, those people will pick up on stuff that's going on and run with it. If, however, society has become so atomised that Thatcher's wish has come true, then we really are stuffed.

I'm not going to quote any more writers at you. There's stuff you can read to give more depth and substance to this, but the point is that resistance has to be autonomous, we have to understand how networks get into motion, and how mobility is capable of proliferating. But if we don't have the material conditions, the population will not seize the moment.
what you mean community activism like the stop stansted expansion campaign?

or maybe the 'Stop Heathrow Expansion' campaign?

in case you missed it, the local campaign won their battle locally, but then the industry lobbied the government and the government stepped in to over-rule the local council. Therefore a bit of national level solidarity from a nationwide network of activists is entirely in order... also the fact that this is not just a local issue, it's a national and international issue due to it's significance for this countries carbon reduction targets, plus the passengers come from all over the country.
 
I agree with most of what is said in these two posts.

As regards the Plane Stupid actions - there are two main objections to them being expressed on this thread as far as I can make out. Firstly the suggestion that it was a strategic error, as argued by Kyser who may or may not be right about it being ineffective in getting the desired message to the right people.

Secondly the more fundamental objection coming from Danny La Rouge and others which in simple terms seems to be that all the issues to do with climate change can only really be solved as part of a much bigger picture which would involve major social change including getting rid of capitalism and hence the whole "class" issue. They reckon that trying to tinker with the existing system is missing the point and a distraction from the larger project.

Well, I can see the argument in theory, and I also have plenty sympathy for the point of view that the current capitalist system relying on the idea of economic growth is inevitably going to continue to compound the problems we are starting to face with CO2 emissions and in the depletion of natural resources in general.

However - where I fundamentally differ from the point of view of DLR is that I simply don't believe the kind of "revolution" the class warrior types want to see is ever going to take place. It simply is not sellable to the main body of people whose support would be needed to make it happen, and furthermore I don't even believe it would actually work in practice. I do agree that some, possibly quite significant, changes are likely to be forced upon the current system in the future but these will come out of economic and technological necessity rather than as a result of some sort of popular political movement. I imagine those changes are going to be rather uncomfortable for a lot of people. As far as I am concerned, the green agenda is all about trying to foresee these, and start making the changes as early as we can, in an attempt to lessen the pain of the changes when they become absolutely inavoidable.

From my point of view the most pragmatic approach is to do all we can to tinker with what we have; and to tinker as much as popular opinion is going to allow. As far as I am concerned, waiting for the revolution to happen is a waste of time and energy. We can only do as much tinkering as mainstream opinion is going to tolerate, and therefore I think that it is mainstream opinion that we need to try and influence. As far as I can see, trying to convert mainstream opinion to the "class warrior cause" is a complete dead end. And in fact, tying the "green" agenda up with other more radical political ideas only serves to put "mainstream" people off.

I realise that taking this approach means that I am accused of being a "liberal" but I don't care. If that is what I am so be it; to me it is not a derogatory term. My opinions are probably more "mainstream" than many posters on here but I am fairly sure they are less so than the bulk of the population. If no-one is able to convince me that there exists a workable system that can wholly replace capitalism, there is surely no hope of selling it to the masses.
Good post, and thanks for summing up the thread so I don't have to read it ;)

I'm in a similar camp to you. I don't think I'm a liberal but I'm not hugely insulted if people think I am. I'm happy to admit that I have liberal leanings, and also libertarian leanings, and also socialist leanings...

Some people think I'm just confused. That's fine too, cos I'm pretty sure they don't have all the answers either - and at least I *know* I don't have the answers :p

Anyway, on the Plane Stupid action - because of my lack of dedication to revolutionary causes, I also see stuff like this in a tactical light. I think this action was pretty borderline in the strategic sense. Nowhere near the "Digging-up-dead-grannies" league yet, but I hope they know what they're doing and aren't going in that direction.
 
Therefore a bit of national level solidarity from a nationwide network of activists is entirely in order...
I'm consistently puzzled by what on earth you think I believe and why you think I believe it.

- Class analysis does not mean making sure all your activists have the right accents.

- Community activism does not mean there are never national networks, or national solidarity.

- Choosing your targets intelligently does not mean supporting Ryanair, giving in to government, or giving up.
 
Just jumping into the thread, but I don't think people are affected enough in this country to care about climate change and to make it an issue.
 
Secondly the more fundamental objection coming from Danny La Rouge and others which in simple terms seems to be that all the issues to do with climate change can only really be solved as part of a much bigger picture which would involve major social change including getting rid of capitalism and hence the whole "class" issue. They reckon that trying to tinker with the existing system is missing the point and a distraction from the larger project.
Missed this. No, that's not it either. :D

I'm sorry, I did think I'd explained myself fairly well, but seeing as so many people are misunderstanding me, I suppose I'm starting in the wrong place or something.

For the record, no, I don't think we can do nothing about climate change until there's been a social revolution. I have said that we can, through struggle, force capital to make compromises. I remember saying it. I gave the welfare state as an example.
 
Free Spirit, do you think there are only 50 people who care about climate change in the country?
yes danny, that's obviously what I think.

alternatively I could have been referring to the number of activists from plane stupid who were prepared to face arrest in the action referred to in the first post on this thread, and their options for what they as a group of 50 people prepared to face arrest, but with relatively limited other resources could take to help further their aims.
 
yes danny, that's obviously what I think.
I didn't think you thought that, I just wondered why you'd think they should be responsible for spreading into the community doing good works? That's not how community activism works. That's missionary work.

If they want to do big set-piece demonstrations, they need to choose more effectively. Which is what I've said all along. I suggest that the reason they chose badly this time is their class-blindness and liberalism.
 
Missed this. No, that's not it either. :D

I'm sorry, I did think I'd explained myself fairly well, but seeing as so many people are misunderstanding me, I suppose I'm starting in the wrong place or something.

For the record, no, I don't think we can do nothing about climate change until there's been a social revolution. I have said that we can, through struggle, force capital to make compromises. I remember saying it. I gave the welfare state as an example.

But you do think that a social revolution that would lead to a workable system fundamentally different to our current capitalist one is possible, desirable and worth striving for, no? And therefore worth spending a significant amount of effort on which could otherwise be directed towards more "liberal" campaigns? And that you would view certain "green" campaigns as counterproductive to your principle aim of a social revolution and would oppose them on this basis?

Or have I misunderstood that as well?
 
But you do think that a social revolution that would lead to a workable system fundamentally different to our current capitalist one is possible, desirable and worth striving for, no?
Yes.

And therefore worth spending a significant amount of effort on which could otherwise be directed towards more "liberal" campaigns?
No, that's not how I see the struggle against capital. We are all within the system, and if we want to change it we must understand its nature, but we can win, and have won, victories along the way.

And that you would view certain "green" campaigns as counterproductive to your principle aim of a social revolution and would oppose them on this basis?
I don't see campaigning on green issues as inherently counterproductive, no. I do see some campaigns, green and otherwise, as counterproductive, though.
 
I'm consistently puzzled by what on earth you think I believe and why you think I believe it.

- Class analysis does not mean making sure all your activists have the right accents.
other than some vague notion that they don't understand the role capitalism plays in the problem, I remain pretty perplexed about what you actually do mean by class analysis if it's not about the class of the people the action is affecting, or the class of the people taking part in the action.

I had presumed you meant that the action by targeting one of the airports used most by working class people was wrong, and they should instead be targeting the city boys or something similar... now it just looks like a term that you're using in a way that means you can alter it's meaning to suit your argument at whim.


- Community activism does not mean there are never national networks, or national solidarity.
I'm fully aware of this fact, which is why I was attempting to point out to you in my previous post that this action does in fact fit within your own stated framework for how a campaign like this should be run.

- Choosing your targets intelligently does not mean supporting Ryanair, giving in to government, or giving up.
They have chosen their target intelligently though. This action was a direct response to the government overturning the local council decision to reject the building of a new runway at Stansted.
A protest at Stansted is an intelligent target, and pretty much any sort of protest that aims to do more than leaflet a few people is going to cause disruption to passengers, therefore you may as well take the most high profile action you can - which is what they did.
 
I didn't think you thought that, I just wondered why you'd think they should be responsible for spreading into the community doing good works? That's not how community activism works. That's missionary work.
I don't think they should be responsible for spreading into the community doing good works, but that's the logical conclusion from the various posters in this thread arguing that they should have done this rather than taking this action.

What it boils down to IMO is theoretical bollocks versus practical reality in terms of the options open to a group of 50 people determined to influence government policy, ideally in a relatively short space of time.

If they want to do big set-piece demonstrations, they need to choose more effectively. Which is what I've said all along. I suggest that the reason they chose badly this time is their class-blindness and liberalism.
their we go again danny - class-blindness

danny said:
I said the protesters were class-blind because their actions are fairly obviously not part of a coherent critique of capitalism.

how does the fact that they've targeted stansted airport, equate to them being class blind by your very own definition as stated on this thread? Unless I've missed something and stansted is actually now owned and run as a workers co-operative, as are all the airlines flying out of it.

or do you actually mean something different by 'class blind'?
 
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