Pedestrian killed outside Lambeth Town Hall, helicopter in attendance
- Thread starter story
- Start date
story
Changing the facts
Here I go between the bus and lorry.
Clerkenwell road. The traffic is almost stationary. So its ok to filter through.
I used to do that all the time when I was a cycle courier. Came a cropper though, eventually, and split ma head open. Got a pretty scar to show for it, and lost my nerve.
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
Whilst I agree with Gramsci that you *should* be able to do this, I'm vehemently in agreement with everyone else in that it's madness to try. I nearly met my end whilst clear at Elephant and Castle when a bus and a lorry came up either side of me and then very nearly squashed me. If it hadn't been for my banging amd shouting and that of a couple of other cyclists behind me I'd be a gonner now
I'd also add that having sat in one of the Lambeth bin trucks at the country fair, no matter how many mirrors they have, lorries cannot see you anywhere. Stay behind them and be 5 minutes late. Otherwise you'll die.
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
How do you know? It could be that someone jumps out in the road in front of them and they have to swerve. I just wouldn't take the chance.
Gixxer1000
cant wheelie a shaftie :(
And they're in the blind spot because the mirrors are inadequate, simple as that.
No because the blindspots change on an artic when it turns.
If they're almost stationary they won't swerve, they'll just stamp on the brakes. By almost stationary I mean crawling along, slower than walking pace. It takes 4 or 5 seconds max to get past the bus. Before you commit yourself you look through the gap. If you think either driver might have a reason to put their foot down in the next 5 seconds you don't go through. With a bit of experience you can judge it properly. I used to be a motorcycle courier which was good training.
You're a bit fucking sick in the head aren't you? Your posts on the 'Sian' thread in 'Bristol' forum are just as bad. What a sad fucking world you live in
colacubes
Mr Hot Cookie
Fair enough. I've been a driver for 15 years and cycling in central London for 6. I wouldn't chance it myself *shrug*
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Here I go between the bus and lorry.
Clerkenwell road. The traffic is almost stationary. So its ok to filter through.
I would nt touch that with a barge pole. That's a stupid and reckless move to make. Just wait behind the bus.
Hang on they weren't even fully stationary? Even worse. I'll upgrade my judgement to fucking idiotic.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Stupid.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I've looked at that picture again and I still can't see any circumstance in which going into that gap wouldn't be really dangerous. Why would you want to get in front of two big heavy long vehicles like that when the lanes are narrow? They're just going to want to overtake you as soon as traffic gets moving anyway. Let them go off in front and live.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
You can get yourself out of a dangerous situation a lot faster on a motorbike. Don't think it's a helpful comparison in a lot of ways.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Yep. Those cyclists are all in plain view while the lorry's going straight on. As it starts to turn, all the driver can see is the side of his trailer.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
Link about 2 cyclist deaths in London
http://road.cc/content/news/33648-b...wo-riders-killed-lorries-just-few-miles-apart
A Conservative MP has proposed a bill aiming to create a new criminal offence of causing death or serious injury through dangerous or reckless cycling.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11/20110323/tpl-mp-calls-for-action-on-cycle-deaths-0a1c1a1.html
http://road.cc/content/news/33648-b...wo-riders-killed-lorries-just-few-miles-apart
A Conservative MP has proposed a bill aiming to create a new criminal offence of causing death or serious injury through dangerous or reckless cycling.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11/20110323/tpl-mp-calls-for-action-on-cycle-deaths-0a1c1a1.html
Mrs Redboots
Ice dancer
I wouldn't cycle in London if you paid me. Someone I loved was knocked off her bike and killed by a van coming out of a side road without looking.
While the vast majority of cyclists are sensible and cycle safely, I have seen one or two accidents almost waiting to happen due to cyclists being reckless! I know it is always deemed to be the car or lorry driver's fault if there is an accident, but I believe there may well be exceptions.
While the vast majority of cyclists are sensible and cycle safely, I have seen one or two accidents almost waiting to happen due to cyclists being reckless! I know it is always deemed to be the car or lorry driver's fault if there is an accident, but I believe there may well be exceptions.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Precisely. And the lorries mirrors are visible.
I actually didnt go through the gap. By the time I took took the photo the lights changed on the Clerkenwell and Farringdon junction and they started to move a bit.
Its near impossible to get around central London without going through gaps.
The only times I have had a close shave is cars turning left on me at junction , opening car doors and roadside and cars swerving across a junction.
The only thing I dont get is people listening to I pods. Im always listening and aware of what is going on around me when im cycling.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Trouble is in many parts of central London u will be stuck behind them unless u get in front. Particularly there Clerkenwell up to Grays inn road it does not widen out until Theobolds.
Plus for some reason TFL have been narrowing roads as at Shaftesbury Avenue. Totally impossible to cycle there without overtaking traffic or squeezing between pavement and road
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Then you stay stuck behind them until it's safe to overtake. It's not a race.
There's no way of knowing what's going on in front of those vehicles. Anything could happen that might take the drivers concentration or cause them to maneuver without looking. Something could go wrong at your end - a slipping chain, a pothole, anything that might make you lose your balance. In between a bus and a lorry is a fundamentally dangerous place to be. Don't go there.
There's no way of knowing what's going on in front of those vehicles. Anything could happen that might take the drivers concentration or cause them to maneuver without looking. Something could go wrong at your end - a slipping chain, a pothole, anything that might make you lose your balance. In between a bus and a lorry is a fundamentally dangerous place to be. Don't go there.
Er, have you ever been to London? In rush hour in the centre the traffic just doesn't get moving except on a few multi-lane roads. Vehicles on a typical two lane road manage an average speed of quite a bit less than a bike. If you sit behind the first bus you see for fear of being overtaken by it you'd really be better off walking. Even the cyclists who don't filter through gaps like Gramsci will still overtake all the big vehicles, either up the inside or down the middle of the road.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
It is shocking that there have been seemingly lots of cyclist deaths from HGV's reciently. However cycling really is not a dangerous as many think. I read somewhere reciently that the level of risk associated with cycling is on a par with gardening and that of playing football. The health benefits of the regular exercise you get from regularly cycling far outweigh the risks anyway.
Also in the last few years the number of people cycling in London has doubled, while the number of recorded injuries has remained about the same. As more people cycle the roads become safer for everyone.
A final thing about risk, you are several thousand times more likely to cause injury to someone else when driving then when riding a bike.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yes and if he took his mirrors right off he wouldn't be able to see anything. My point is that just yakking on about "blind spots" when it's clear that for lorries to manoeuvre safely in city streets they are inadequately set up is daft.
If a lorry killed someone on a site or workplace by just ploughing over them when they were in his "blind spot" there'd be an automatic HSE investigation and someone (probably several) would almost certainly get prosecuted. Do it on a city street where there are millions of people who have no experience or knowledge of artics and everyone just shrugs and says "blind spot".
It's only blind because the mirrors are patently inadequate for the task, you might as well paint your front window black and use it as an excuse for running over people in front of you.
plurker
tú no tienes la culpa mi amor que el mundo sea feo
If you know the light sequence and saw them go to red, you'd know how long you had before they turned green. In that case I'd go through that gap. If I hadn't seen them change, I'd be going round the rear of the HGV and overtaking on his offside.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
There is a special mirror for lorries iirc which cuts out most of the blind spot and costs about £150 to retrofit. All the govt needs to do is make them mandatory. But it won't cos of the haulage lobby.
There is of course a big problem in avoiding being on the inside of traffic - that's where most of the cycle lanes go.
Edit to add - here's a link with more info on the Class 6 mirrors, which are mandatory on all new lorries but not on older ones.
There is of course a big problem in avoiding being on the inside of traffic - that's where most of the cycle lanes go.
Edit to add - here's a link with more info on the Class 6 mirrors, which are mandatory on all new lorries but not on older ones.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
100% agree. There should be wide-angle mirrors in addition, which allow a full view round the side of the lorry, even when turning.
I always mention this in these threads, probably to no effect, but if you are ever in a situation where you or another cyclist are in danger of getting squished by a lorry and you need to get the driver's attention, an Airzound might save a life. It's an air horn for bicycles. Other airhorns have a disposable can of compressed air, but the Airzound has an air bottle which you can repressure with your bicycle pump.
24 quid from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-Zound-Rechargeable-Horn/dp/B002JE6Z0O/ref=pd_cp_sg_0
They're a bit controversial because they're so LOUD, can be tricky to fit, don't always last that long, and are hard to operate when you're having a minor panic and busy grabbing the brakes. But I can't think of another way to be heard by a lorry driver.
Some people blast them at cars and pedestrians.
Here's one being used by a guy determined to mix it with the traffic at high speed. A typical dilemma for those who want to ride at 25 mph+. It's a fantastic rush, great exercise, you feel entitled to do it because you're going as fast as the traffic....but.....
24 quid from Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-Zound-Rechargeable-Horn/dp/B002JE6Z0O/ref=pd_cp_sg_0
They're a bit controversial because they're so LOUD, can be tricky to fit, don't always last that long, and are hard to operate when you're having a minor panic and busy grabbing the brakes. But I can't think of another way to be heard by a lorry driver.
Some people blast them at cars and pedestrians.
Here's one being used by a guy determined to mix it with the traffic at high speed. A typical dilemma for those who want to ride at 25 mph+. It's a fantastic rush, great exercise, you feel entitled to do it because you're going as fast as the traffic....but.....
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Precisely. The ideological anti-cycling idiots like Pickmans and ajdown etc always like to assume that cyclists are to blame for being in a "blind spot" - particularly ironic for wannabe lefties like pickmans who would be frothing all over the shop if these kind of killings were taking place in a workplace rather than in public space. But if cyclists are using the edge of the road and lorries overtake them it is the lorry that puts them in that position - and I don't know any cyclist who hasn't been cut up by one. Given that the average speed of lorries is no faster than bicycles in London they shouldn't be overtaking at all.
