Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[Crispy]

Well, I doubt that a few months is long enough to cover all the bases, so I'd expect to wait a while for eg. Office document editing, hardcore PIM apps and the like.

 

[Sunray]

Rubbish idea IMO.

High quality applications take time and the longer you leave it till the people that make those applications get their hands on the tools to make those applications the longer it will be before you see them.

 

[editor]

Rubbish idea IMO.

High quality applications take time and the longer you leave it till the people that make those applications get their hands on the tools to make those applications the longer it will be before you see them.

I'm not sure how you can make that call without even seeing what apps are coming up or are already in development.

The synergy feature is already way ahead of anything else on the market, and there's clearly more to come, so I'd say it's a bit premature to declare their policy as "rubbish."

 

[Sunray]

One feature of a phone does not make a suite of applications.

Its a bad idea because its locking out people who would ultimately make the phone better without any work from Palm. Give me one reason that's a sensible idea?

 

[Lazy Llama]

A curious thing. In these demo sessions, they won't let reviewers drive the Pre themselves, someone from Palm/Sprint has to have a hand on the phone at all time. They won't even let the phone be moved by anyone else.

Is it a lot less finished than we're led to believe or maybe it's just particularly susceptible to finger marks?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10210019-51.html

 

[Sunray]

Its either bugged to fuck and they know it and don't want to let investors know or the stock price is dead or a clever ploy to garner some extra press as there is no such thing as bad publicity. Glowing reviews from respected journalists would be a lot better than someone complaining that they can't even touch it. Just gives me the impression they are hiding something.

12 weeks till the end June. No release date for the US yet, 3 months after announcing it.

 

[paolo]

If one wanted to be sensationalist, one could describe potential developers who aren't invited into the programme, as "banned"

 

[paolo]

A curious thing. In these demo sessions, they won't let reviewers drive the Pre themselves, someone from Palm/Sprint has to have a hand on the phone at all time. They won't even let the phone be moved by anyone else.

Is it a lot less finished than we're led to believe or maybe it's just particularly susceptible to finger marks?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10210019-51.html

A month or so back, Engadget managed to get one unaccompanied for a few hours based on them taking it on major TV programme (Saturday Night Live/Jay Leno/that kind of thing).

That's the only one I've heard of.

 

[editor]

Its either bugged to fuck and they know it and don't want to let investors know or the stock price is dead or a clever ploy to garner some extra press as there is no such thing as bad publicity. Glowing reviews from respected journalists would be a lot better than someone complaining that they can't even touch it. Just gives me the impression they are hiding something.

I'm pretty sure the investors would have had a pretty good play with it by now - and presumably they found it not wanting.

A month or so back, Engadget managed to get one unaccompanied for a few hours based on them taking it on major TV programme (Saturday Night Live/Jay Leno/that kind of thing).

That's the only one I've heard of.

There's a comprehensive, three minute, independent video walk through here, by the way. . Its very slick.

More videos here. The full old Palm OS emulator looks superb. http://www.youtube.com/user/phonescoop

 

[editor]

Gizmodo are impressed:

Palm Pre's First Apps Hands On: Seriously Good-Looking Programs

We're nearing the still unknown release date for the Palm Pre, and new details are slowly surfacing. Sprint demoed the Pre's WebOS apps at CTIA, including PalmOS Emulator, Google Maps and Pandora. These look fantastic.

Like the iPhone, Palm gives developers a set of recommended UI design elements in the SDK, to promote a cohesive look in WebOS. While use of these buttons and menus aren't mandatory, these early developers have embraced them. I also happen to think the design DNA of WebOS looks better than any platform on the market, even Mobile OSX.

Pandora's integration with WebOS will make it the best available mobile version of this music service. When you start Pandora and exit to another app a little Pandora logo remains in the bottom right corner of the screen. When you tap it, a quick launch UI pops up that lets you control the app without exiting whatever else you were doing. Serious, serious multitasking.

And in general, the UI seems much more intuitive and usable than most the other versions of Pandora, with plenty of UI navigation options that make it less labyrinth, more music app.

Video and pics: http://i.gizmodo.com/5195980/palm-pre-apps-hands-on-hardly-lightweight-looking-great

 

[editor]

If one wanted to be sensationalist, one could describe potential developers who aren't invited into the programme, as "banned"

Or you could just read their entirely reasonable explanation:

Admission to the program is by application – we’ll admit a small group of developers to start and gradually increase the size of the program as the tools mature.

We’d like to let everyone in, but we want to make sure that we can provide a solid development experience and attentive developer support before we scale up.

We are eager to get the SDK into developers’ hands and will expand the program as quickly as we can.
http://tamspalm.tamoggemon.com/2009/04/02/palm-launches-early-access-program-for-webos/

 

[Kid_Eternity]

A curious thing. In these demo sessions, they won't let reviewers drive the Pre themselves, someone from Palm/Sprint has to have a hand on the phone at all time. They won't even let the phone be moved by anyone else.

Is it a lot less finished than we're led to believe or maybe it's just particularly susceptible to finger marks?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10210019-51.html

Yeah I been puzzling over that one too, a few people have mentioned that too.

 

[Sunray]

Or you could just read their entirely reasonable explanation:

I call that an unreasonable bullshit excuse. Even Apple didn't do that, and how restrictive are they?

Its an SDK, release it and let people develop for the phone. What are they afraid of?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I read somewhere (can't bloody remember where now) that the reason Palm wont let anyone hold it is 'fairness'. They basically said they didn't want anyone to feel others were getting better treatment by how much they got to hold it or demo it without supervision...

 

[editor]

I call that an unreasonable bullshit excuse. Even Apple didn't do that, and how restrictive are they?

Its an SDK, release it and let people develop for the phone. What are they afraid of?

It's really rather simple. The company don't have the huge R&D resources and vast pots of $$$$ cash that moneybags Apple have - and they're writing a brand new OS from the ground up. That's an awful lot of work.

Because it's so new, they don't want to release an unfinished SDK and so are relying on tried and tested developers to help mature the product before releasing it to everyone.

That sure seems entirely reasonable to me - or would you rather they release a half-arsed, unfinished version and then piss off smaller developers when they have to change and rewrite things later? That's what happened with Android, IIRC and it looks like they've learnt from their mistakes.

 

[Sunray]

It's really rather simple. The company don't have the huge R&D resources and vast pots of $$$$ cash that moneybags Apple have - and they're writing a brand new OS from the ground up. That's an awful lot of work.

Because it's so new, they don't want to release an unfinished SDK and so are relying on tried and tested developers to help mature the product before releasing it to everyone.

That sure seems entirely reasonable to me - or would you rather they release a half-arsed, unfinished version and then piss off smaller developers when they have to change and rewrite things later? That's what happened with Android, IIRC and it looks like they've learnt from their mistakes.

As long as the documentation is reasonable and things that are marked as 'might change', of course I expect that. The SDK for Windows 7 has been out there for ages already, MS release the SDK well before the final product because they support their developers very well indeed and realise that without them onboard they would die.

Most software developers are use to such things and get on with it. Its highly unlikely to change radically in what, 3 months or even this year for that matter. Choosing a select few is just favouritism and nothing else.

 

[editor]

Most software developers are use to such things and get on with it. Its highly unlikely to change radically in what, 3 months or even this year for that matter. Choosing a select few is just favouritism and nothing else.

It's exactly the kind of thing Apple did - and they have vast R&D resources and riches that Palm could only dream of.

During the beta iPhone SDK program, a limited number of developers will be accepted into Apple’s iPhone Developer Program and offered the ability to get code onto iPhones for testing.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17755

If I was releasing a new, untested OS into the world, I'd do exactly the same: get tried and trusted allies to help tweak and polish the product and unearth flaws, and only release it to everyone when it's stable.

 

[Sunray]

It's exactly the kind of thing Apple did - and they have vast R&D resources and riches that Palm could only dream of.
If I was releasing a new, untested OS into the world, I'd do exactly the same: get tried and trusted allies to help tweak and polish the product and unearth flaws, and only release it to everyone when it's stable.

No, what Apple did was get a limited number of people into their developer program, which allowed them to the full App store and upload onto the Phone with the Beta of 2.0 of the software.

The SDK was freely available for download the moment they released it and it included a iphone emulator.

Palm clearly have a SDK, just release it to the world. We know its not totally finished. It can even ship without an emulator if the phone isn't ready, but having documentation, examples and such is a boon for any developer

 

[Crispy]

What are you on about? It's exactly the same process

Pre-release limited access to iron out bugs, get developer feedback, get some reasonable apps finished. Launch, and open to all. Exactly the same as what apple did.

 

[jæd]

No, what Apple did was get a limited number of people into their developer program, which allowed them to the full App store and upload onto the Phone with the Beta of 2.0 of the software.

This is the stage Palm are at.

Palm clearly have a SDK, just release it to the world. We know its not totally finished. It can even ship without an emulator if the phone isn't ready, but having documentation, examples and such is a boon for any developer

If have neither sample phones ready or an emulator, how are developers going to test their application...?

 

[Sunray]

What are you on about? It's exactly the same process

Pre-release limited access to iron out bugs, get developer feedback, get some reasonable apps finished. Launch, and open to all. Exactly the same as what apple did.

No, the SDK was announced and made available immediately for download by anyone. They had a limited developer participation scheme where they got dev iPhone 3G's with the v2.0 software on it. Nobody knew these existed though speculation was rife.

How do you think the App store was launched with 800 applications in it?

 

[jæd]

No, the SDK was announced and made available immediately for download by anyone. They had a limited developer participation scheme where they got dev iPhone 3G's with the v2.0 software on it. Nobody knew these existed though speculation was rife.

How do you think the App store was launched with 800 applications in it?

There was some limited access to the SDK before the beta was on general release:

"Don't just take my word on how good this platform is -- we called up a handful of companies and asked them to send out a couple of engineers to see what they could accomplish in two weeks with an SDK that they've never even seen before."

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/06/live-from-apples-iphone-press-conference/

There's a timeline of SDK releases at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_OS

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Pandora's integration with WebOS will make it the best available mobile version of this music service.

Which, if the Pandora website is anything to go by, won't be available anywhere other than the USA.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Which, if the Pandora website is anything to go by, won't be available anywhere other than the USA.

They've really got to sort this kind of thing.

 

[editor]

Some more press:

New Palm Pre apps underscore Apple's iPhone limitations

While third-party apps are being trumpeted as the iPhone's strength, key Palm Pre demos this week were designed to highlight their restrictions by taking advantage of those precise things that Apple won't allow.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...pps_underscore_apples_iphone_limitations.html

Outlook desktop sync will be possible with the Pre:
http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palma...crosoft-outlook-to-palm-pre-using-google.html
Pre first impression: http://www.computerworld.com/action...t&articleId=9130976&taxonomyId=0&pageNumber=1

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Some more press:
Outlook desktop sync will be possible with the Pre:
http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palma...crosoft-outlook-to-palm-pre-using-google.html

If you're prepared to pay 30 dollars...

 

[Crispy]

That's just for standalone desktop Outlook. Exchange support appears to be built in already

 

[Lazy Llama]

Sat Nav demo on the Pre

http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/03/pre-sprint-navigation-app-demoed-on-video/

It's Sprint's own app though so isn't likely to be available outside the US.

 

[Sunray]

The biggest limitation I can see for the Pre is that they are limiting apps to Javascript which is fine for certain things, but its interpreted and therefore a bigger battery life drain and order of magnitudes slower than native code access. Unless they release a proper SDK with low level access to the phones hardware then there will be serious limitations to what apps are able to be coded.

 

[editor]

The biggest limitation I can see for the Pre is that they are limiting apps to Javascript which is fine for certain things, but its interpreted and therefore a bigger battery life drain and order of magnitudes slower than native code access. Unless they release a proper SDK with low level access to the phones hardware then there will be serious limitations to what apps are able to be coded.

That's a whole load of fairly wild speculation there. You have no idea at all how good or bad the battery life is.