My Fathers Place on Coldharbour Lane to become a cocktail bar

[editor]

Is this the reason you seem to support this new operation, while joining a protest against another very similar venture just up the street?

I don't "support" this venture. I would have preferred it if the bar had remained as My Father's Place.

These ones are better at PR.

They at least made an effort to engage and hopefully won't keep their windows boarded up and hold semi secret events like that lot at the Angel.

 

[CH1]

I don't "support" this venture. I would have preferred it if the bar had remained as My Father's Place.
They at least made an effort to engage and hopefully won't keep their windows boarded up and hold semi secret events like that lot at the Angel.

I agree. To my mind this is an innocuous proposal.
It won't harm any of the other businesses in the shopping parade - and bringing the shop back into use for a purpose it already has planning permission for is much better than having it stand empty.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, but successive governments specifically encouraged West Indians to come over to Britain, and it was a deliberate decision to place the first arrivals there.

Inaccurate. With regard to southwest London, where "West Indian" immigrants were "placed" was the bomb shelters on Clapham Common. Brixton became the assembly point (if you will) because it was nearby and cheap, not because there was a "deliberate action" on anyone's part. Look at the evolution of black communities elsewhere in Britain - they mostly follow the same path that previous immigrant communities took - a route to the cheapest accommodation.

I see your point about it taking about 25 years, but weren't those people just acting in response to the same drivers (affordable accommodation, people like them) that focus the hipster hive on various places in London?

Except that affordability doesn't appear to be a central foundation of hipsterdom, "authenticity", on the other hand...

I suppose I should make it clear at this point that I see the various waves of settlement in Brixton and its environs as distinctly different, and that even during these waves, there have been other settlers who weren't motivated by anything other than a desire for a cheap family home, but the "hipster" influx...well, that's somewhat different, in that it's people riding a wave that started back in the '70s and '80s with the influx of squatters into empty properties left to rot after the plan to level central Brixton was abandoned. These are people, many of whom believe that you can purchase authenticity like I'd buy a tin of peas - consumption capitalists to a man and woman. They're not here because of low prices. Many are here because here is where they deem themselves as currently needing to be, to be "authentic" - to be real.

 

[teuchter]

To be authentic what?

 

[ViolentPanda]

To be authentic what?

Well, there's the rub - the quest for authenticity doesn't specify an authenticity, the questers merely assume that they can buy a sense of belonging through residence in a "happening" area, just as they assume they can purchase a sense of belonging through buying into other "communities" such as the community of Android users, or iPad bores. Consumption capitalism impels its followers to believe that all things, including social identity, are ultimately purchaseable.

 

[tbtommyb]

Inaccurate. With regard to southwest London, where "West Indian" immigrants were "placed" was the bomb shelters on Clapham Common. Brixton became the assembly point (if you will) because it was nearby and cheap, not because there was a "deliberate action" on anyone's part. Look at the evolution of black communities elsewhere in Britain - they mostly follow the same path that previous immigrant communities took - a route to the cheapest accommodation.

I'm aware of that, thanks, which is why I said 'south London', not Brixton. But I meant that they were deliberately placed in south London, as opposed to say Bristol or Leeds or Manchester, all of which probably had cheaper accommodation. I think the state encouraging people to travel across the Atlantic in fairly large cohesive groups, at a time when Britain had barely any racial diversity, is forced and a culturally jarring change. However, I accept your point that the number of them meant that it probably took a long time for it to mean anything to locals beyond there now being black people.

I think perhaps where we're differing is on cultural/economic change, leading nicely into...

Except that affordability doesn't appear to be a central foundation of hipsterdom, "authenticity", on the other hand...

I suppose I should make it clear at this point that I see the various waves of settlement in Brixton and its environs as distinctly different, and that even during these waves, there have been other settlers who weren't motivated by anything other than a desire for a cheap family home, but the "hipster" influx...well, that's somewhat different, in that it's people riding a wave that started back in the '70s and '80s with the influx of squatters into empty properties left to rot after the plan to level central Brixton was abandoned. These are people, many of whom believe that you can purchase authenticity like I'd buy a tin of peas - consumption capitalists to a man and woman. They're not here because of low prices. Many are here because here is where they deem themselves as currently needing to be, to be "authentic" - to be real.

Well yeah I agree that it's another example of the usual gentrification process, attempting to purchase authenticity or whatever. But perhaps this wave of change has had such a big economic impact because of policy in the intervening time i.e. a lack of council/co-op/HA housing has exposed local people much more than they would have been? So their economic impact has been much greater than their cultural impact. And then it is the economic impact that drives change through rising house prices etc driving people out.

Because I think a lot of the people that laid the ground for this hipster influx did move to Brixton looking for a cheap family home, even 10-15 years ago when Brixton was relatively more affordable. It's only this very recent group that haven't behaved like that, and maybe that's because London property has got so fucked up in the meantime?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm aware of that, thanks, which is why I said 'south London', not Brixton. But I meant that they were deliberately placed in south London, as opposed to say Bristol or Leeds or Manchester, all of which probably had cheaper accommodation. I think the state encouraging people to travel across the Atlantic in fairly large cohesive groups, at a time when Britain had barely any racial diversity, is forced and a culturally jarring change. However, I accept your point that the number of them meant that it probably took a long time for it to mean anything to locals beyond there now being black people.

I think perhaps where we're differing is on cultural/economic change...

I think you're right.

leading nicely into...



Well yeah I agree that it's another example of the usual gentrification process, attempting to purchase authenticity or whatever. But perhaps this wave of change has had such a big economic impact because of policy in the intervening time i.e. a lack of council/co-op/HA housing has exposed local people much more than they would have been? So their economic impact has been much greater than their cultural impact. And then it is the economic impact that drives change through rising house prices etc driving people out.

IIRC there was a convo on here last year where some of the longer-term residents compared their memories of the last 20+ years, and there was an agreement of sorts that the nature of settlement had changed drastically over the last 5-7 years. That isn't to say that the economic and social impact of prior "settlement" hadn't altered the dynamic of the area (it of course had), but the volume and rate of settlement increased noticably, and more settlers appeared to be motivated by "local culture", than by merely seeking a cheaper alternative to Crapham.

Because I think a lot of the people that laid the ground for this hipster influx did move to Brixton looking for a cheap family home, even 10-15 years ago when Brixton was relatively more affordable. It's only this very recent group that haven't behaved like that, and maybe that's because London property has got so fucked up in the meantime?

Hmmm, I'm not so sure. I'd say the primary factor in laying the ground was Brixton's adoption by art students, Bohos and the other usual suspects bringing about much the same demise/"gentrification" that Shoreditch suffered, or even that Battersea suffered 40-odd years ago. This wasn't a deliberate effect, just the unfortunate concomitant to a need for cheap or free accommodation and/or studio space.
This eventually rendered Brixton "more suitable" for settlement by middle class young families who were prepared to buy a "doer-upper", and from there everything else sprang, including an acceleration of change that can be incredibly jarring to Brixton "natives" and old-timers.

 

[Greebo]

clariascott If you're real, read and get a feel for the place.

May all the gods have mercy on you if you're a spambot, because this place certainly won't. Your strange English is a dead giveaway.

 

[CH1]

I notice that 334 Coldharbour - right next to My Fathers Place seems to be in an advanced state of renovation.
Not only that, there is a planning application underway: http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=N0DE5UBO67000

The plans include adding a mansard roof extension - and they cite Jerry Knight's Lexadon Angel pub building as a precedent - though they say THEIR mansard roof extendion will be more tastefully done.

Walking past this evening there looked to be a group of enterprising white young(ish) people tasking tea in the shop unit, which had a poster on the wall suggesting an impending bar use (cocktails that knock you out sort of thing).

Anyone know what is going on?

Ed - has your dynamic duo's autopilot gone awry, or are we in for TWO cocktail bars to entertain the William Hill punters?

 

[cuppa tee]

Ed - has your dynamic duo's autopilot gone awry, or are we in for TWO cocktail bars to entertain the William Hill punters?

this has the hallmarks of some asymmetrical marketing angle ...... tell everyone your new bar is at 336 when it's really at 334 so when they turn up they have to work out where its real location is thus maxing the "hard to find" cachet whilst at the same time giving adventurous urban experientialists a brief but unforgettable taste of edgy CHL after they have alighted from their taxi cab.....
e2a weren't they contemplating calling it 336 as well, the devious b'stards

 

[editor]

The people behind this venture have created a website for their 'cocktail counselling and menu creation' service.
http://saltsoftheearth.co.uk/

 

[Corax]

Which way round do they put their lens hoods on?

 

[Corax]

The people behind this venture have created a website for their 'cocktail counselling and menu creation' service.
http://saltsoftheearth.co.uk/

Ooh, fuck me that's painful...

 

[shakespearegirl]

That website is fucking horrendous.

 

[gabi]

Jesus Christ. That has to be a pisstake.

 

[gabi]

'After fingering his way' ... Fucking hell, someone has to preserve this site. I just vomited a little in my mouth imagining that fuckwit fingering anything

 

[gabi]

Hang on. Chris Morris drinks locally, ive seen him about with Brooker. Surely this is one of his efforts.

 

[T & P]

'After fingering his way' ... Fucking hell, someone has to preserve this site. I just vomited a little in my mouth imagining that fuckwit fingering anything

The full paragraph is worth quoting for posterity

Ever the experimentalist, Mr Edwards traversed the many roads necessary before calling himself a man. After fingering his way from the fretless neck of a double bass to the Fin de siècle institutions of fine art and design, Chris found work in the cavernous vaults of a subterranean private-members club beneath the Strand, and was submerged forever in the sea of hospitality.

 

[buscador]

Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...

 

[Rushy]

Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...

Energetic fingering
I might seek clarification before deciding whether to visit.

 

[colacubes]

Energetic fingering
I might seek clarification before deciding whether to visit.

Innit. Not what I'm after when I go out for a drink tbh

 

[Rushy]

Innit. Not what I'm after when I go out for a drink tbh

Not anymore, anyway.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...

oooh! Substation, Clit Club, Fuck me Barbie - happy memories! - makes me feel all nostalgic.

This lot's site is a bit vague about the darkroom though. With a site like that not sure if they are offering drinks or comedy?

 

[colacubes]

Not anymore, anyway.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Not anymore, anyway.

Sadly true for me. Only bitter and home before midnight now.

 

[sim667]

So the "darkroom" on their website is a link to digital pictures of their cocktails.

Nothing quite like a contradiction in terms is there?

 

[editor]

They offering cocktail training too:

Only those who have come from the very bottom can understand the importance of quality training when it comes to reaching the top. For charismatic and engaging sessions on everything from classic cocktails to your own existing lists, read: Salts of the Earth.

 

[Rushy]

A few doors away from MFP there is a drab looking solicitors. As I wandered past this morning there was a guy and a woman sat outside on the pavement on little chairs, which I thought was unusual for a solicitor's office. But inside, it looked like there were several tables covered in red and white checked tablecloths and a bar at the end. Couldn't see much as I was over the other side of the road. Anyone?

 

[editor]

A few doors away from MFP there is a drab looking solicitors. As I wandered past this morning there was a guy and a woman sat outside on the pavement on little chairs, which I thought was unusual for a solicitor's office. But inside, it looked like there were several tables covered in red and white checked tablecloths and a bar at the end. Couldn't see much as I was over the other side of the road. Anyone?

That's the jolly pop-up restaurant selling 'Barrier Block Buffalo Wings.' It hasn't been advertised to locals, well, certainly not to the people they've named one of their dishes after, so I'm not surprised you didn't know what it was.

 

[Rushy]

Oh, that'd be it.

Does advertising work like that anymore? Everything seems to be advertised by non geo specific social networking like Twitter / Facebook / blogs etc.. All I get "local" advertising for these days is Pizza delivery, cleaning service, floorsanding and the occasional mystic healer. Maybe what is needed is a local information campaign to show people how to keep in touch with what is happening locally by Twitter etc.. Fucked if I can work it (or be bothered to ever look though all the crap which seems to come my way on Twitter, for that matter).