Manned mission to Venus using floating airships

[2hats]

A manned mission to Venus that's not quite so batshit as it may sound at first.

Only 100 days to get there (significantly shorter than Mars and a far lower planetary protection risk). Float around in an airship for about 30 days conducting observations, dropping probes at the ~1 atmosphere pressure altitude (around 50km, 75 degC, gravity about 0.9g). Even just a robotic variant of the mission (needed as a first phase anyway to test the technologies) would be fruitful.

NASA Langley researchers want to get a better idea about conditions on our nearest planetary neighbor, Venus, so they have come up with HAVOC or a High Altitude Venus Operational Concept – a lighter-than-air rocket ship that would help send two astronauts on a 30-day mission to explore the planet’s atmosphere. Exploration of Venus is a challenge not only because its smog-like sulfuric acid-laced atmosphere, but also its extremely hot surface temperature and extremely high air pressure on the surface.

 

[editor]

Make it so please.

 

[N_igma]

I'd be very incredulous about this. Couldn't they do the whole thing with robots why the need for humans?

 

[editor]

Curious end to that video...

 

[goldenecitrone]

I'd be very incredulous about this. Couldn't they do the whole thing with robots why the need for humans?

What if those two humans were Richard Branson and Simon Cowell? That changes things a bit, doesn't it?

 

[BandWagon]

What if those two humans were Richard Branson and Simon Cowell? That changes things a bit, doesn't it?

There are probably a few more people we could put in there...

 

[Crispy]

Choosing the 1atm pressure level seems a little strange to me. Go a bit higher and the pressure would still be liveable, but the temperature will be much more friendly than 75C. In fact, IIRC, a breathable gas mixture at this altitude would actually be buoyant in Venus' atmosphere, making it possible to have a single envelope for living quarters and flotation.

 

[2hats]

Choosing the 1atm pressure level seems a little strange to me. Go a bit higher and the pressure would still be liveable, but the temperature will be much more friendly than 75C. In fact, IIRC, a breathable gas mixture at this altitude would actually be buoyant in Venus' atmosphere, making it possible to have a single envelope for living quarters and flotation.

I think it was suggested as ~1atm. You are right - something around say 0.85atm might be a better compromise and a breathable envelope mix could (IIRC) be buoyant around that position in the Venusian atmosphere.

 

[Mr Moose]

Probs not going to be asked, but it's a 'no' from me.

 

[goldenecitrone]

There are probably a few more people we could put in there...

Indeed. We're gonna need a bigger airship.

 

[editor]

Fascinating stuff:

As surprising as it may seem, the upper atmosphere of Venus is the most Earth-like location in the solar system. Between altitudes of 50km and 60km, the pressure and temperature can be compared to regions of the Earth’s lower atmosphere. The atmospheric pressure in the Venusian atmosphere at 55km is about half that of the pressure at sea level on Earth. In fact you would be fine without a pressure suit, as this is roughly equivalent to the air pressure you would encounter at the summit of Mount Kilimanjaro. Nor would you need to insulate yourself as the temperature here ranges between 20°C and 30°C.

The atmosphere above this altitude is also dense enough to protect astronauts from ionising radiation from space. The closer proximity of the sun provides an even greater abundance of available solar radiation than on Earth, which can be used to generate power (approximately 1.4 times greater).

The conceptual airship would float around the planet, being blown by the wind. It could, usefully, be filled with a breathable gas mixture such as oxygen and nitrogen, providing buoyancy. This is possible because breathable air is less dense than the Venusian atmosphere and, as result, would be a lifting gas.

NASA wants to send humans to Venus – here's why that's a brilliant idea

 

[NoXion]

I'd be very incredulous about this. Couldn't they do the whole thing with robots why the need for humans?

Humans floating in the cytherean clouds would be able to control robots on the surface in real time.

 

[TruXta]

But how are they going to launch an airship into space?

 

[wayward bob]

i was unable to like this thread as i already have

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[Crispy]

But how are they going to launch an airship into space?

folded up

 

[SpookyFrank]

Humans floating in the cytherean clouds would be able to control robots on the surface in real time.

How do you get round the problem of the pressure and corrosiveness of the Venusian atmosphere at the surface destroying everything within minutes?

 

[Crispy]

How do you get round the problem of the pressure and corrosiveness of the Venusian atmosphere at the surface destroying everything within minutes?

Use a clockwork rover

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/a-...a.gov/feature/jpl/a-clockwork-rover-for-venus

 

[SpookyFrank]

Use a clockwork rover

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/a-...a.gov/feature/jpl/a-clockwork-rover-for-venus

Airships and clockwork. The steampunk set must be in raptures of delight.

 

[editor]

Use a clockwork rover

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/a-...a.gov/feature/jpl/a-clockwork-rover-for-venus

Loving it!

A good watch can take a beating and keep on ticking. With the right parts, can a rover do the same on a planet like Venus?

A concept inspired by clockwork computers and World War I tanks could one day help us find out. The design is being explored at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California.

The Automaton Rover for Extreme Environments (AREE) is funded for study by the NASA Innovative Advanced Concepts program. The program offers small grants to develop early stage technology, allowing engineers to work out their ideas.

AREE was first proposed in 2015 by Jonathan Sauder, a mechatronics engineer at JPL. He was inspired by mechanical computers, which use levers and gears to make calculations rather than electronics.

By avoiding electronics, a rover might be able to better explore Venus. The planet's hellish atmosphere creates pressures that would crush most submarines. Its average surface temperature is 864 degrees Fahrenheit (462 degrees Celsius), high enough to melt lead.

Steampunk computing

Mechanical computers have been used throughout history, most often as mathematical tools like adding machines. The most famous might be Charles Babbage's Difference Engine, a 19th century invention for calculating algebraic equations. The oldest known is the Antikythera mechanism, a device used by ancient Greeks to predict astronomical phenomena like eclipses.

Mechanical computers were also developed as works of art. For hundreds of years, clockwork mechanisms were used to create automatons for wealthy patrons. In the 1770s, a Swiss watchmaker named Pierre Jaquet-Droz created "The Writer," an automaton that could be programmed to write any combination of letters.



Sauder said these analog technologies could help where electronics typically fail. In extreme environments like the surface of Venus, most electronics will melt in high temperatures or be corroded by sulfuric acid in the atmosphere.



"Venus is too inhospitable for kind of complex control systems you have on a Mars rover," Sauder said. "But with a fully mechanical rover, you might be able to survive as long as a year."



Wind turbines in the center of the rover would power these computers, allowing it to flip upside down and keep running. But the planet's environment would offer plenty of challenges.

 

[editor]

This is amazing: the lander may communicate via morse code!

AREE includes a number of other innovative design choices.

Mobility is one challenge, considering there are so many unknowns about the Venusian surface. Sauder's original idea was inspired by the "Strandbeests" created by Dutch artist Theo Jansen. These spider-like structures have spindly legs that can carry their bulk across beaches, powered solely by wind.

Ultimately, they seemed too unstable for rocky terrain. Sauder started looking at World War I tank treads as an alternative. These were built to roll over trenches and craters.

Another problem will be communications. Without electronics, how would you transmit science data? Current plans are inspired by another age-old technology: Morse code.

An orbiting spacecraft could ping the rover using radar. The rover would have a radar target, which if shaped correctly, would act like "stealth technology in reverse," Sauder said. Stealth planes have special shapes that disperse radar signals; Sauder is exploring how to shape these targets to brightly reflect signals instead. Adding a rotating shutter in front of the radar target would allow the rover to turn the bright, reflected spot on and off, communicating much like signal lamps on Navy ships.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You'd still need some very clever clockwork to encode observational data into morse, or realistically binary code.

 

[NoXion]

How do you get round the problem of the pressure and corrosiveness of the Venusian atmosphere at the surface destroying everything within minutes?

Clockwork proposals aside, if the Soviets in the 1970s could get a lander working long enough to send back at least one picture, then I see no reason why modern space agencies could not improve significantly upon that feat.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Clockwork proposals aside, if the Soviets in the 1970s could get a lander working long enough to send back at least one picture, then I see no reason why modern space agencies could not improve significantly upon that feat.

Perhaps a lander made entirely of Nokia 3310s vibrating their way sluggishly across the Venusian landscape.

 

[Idris2002]

I'd be very incredulous about this. Couldn't they do the whole thing with robots why the need for humans?

No buck Rogers no bucks