Man’s house sold without his knowledge by ID theft fraudsters

[SpookyFrank]

The owner is a preacher I see. So he should be thankful that god has seen fit to test him so.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Isn’t this a Gvt nudge to get multiple property owners to blag themselves in?

 

[equationgirl]

Home owners can save themselves a bit of grief by signing up for a property alert.

Protect your land and property from fraud

How to protect your home, land or other property from fraud

www.gov.uk

Only for properties in England and Wales. Scottish properties are on a different registry.

 

[equationgirl]

I'd be tempted to do it for her.

hmm

wonder if mum-tat's house is registered with land registry. parents bought it (in joint names) in 1969, dad died in 1992

do i tell her about this and suggests she signs up (which will probably cause panic)?

 

[two sheds]

Good plan - they'll just e-mail you if there's anything suspicious.

 

[dessiato]

I'm thinking of signing up the family home. The trouble is it's been in the family for four (?) generations. There's no mortgage or loan against it. My f-i-l is stubbornly set in the past where scams and dishonesty are very rare, or only happen to stupid people, he, of course, isn't stupid. And is increasingly vulnerable.

 

[two sheds]

what equation girl said above - you just sign up for it and don't tell him unless you get an email.

 

[A380]

what equation girl said above - you just sign up for it and don't tell him unless you get an email.

But if the house has been sold for a while it might not be registered. It will show unavailable…

 

[two sheds]

True if pre 1998 - but then worth getting it registered. I thought most houses had to be registered after 1925.

The website says the details may be different from those held on the Land Registry website pre 1998.

 

[dessiato]

In my f-i-l case the family has owned the house over 100 years, so I guess there'll need to be a bit of a work around, and it's in Scotland.

Gives me something to do today.

 

[Ax^]

I would burn the bloody place down if the police turn up after someone nicked my house and told me it was a civil matter


but that just me

 

[dessiato]

I would burn the bloody place down if the police turn up after someone nicked my house and told me it was a civil matter


but that just me

Then you'd be nicked for arson. The case would be interesting though, arguing you'd only set fire to your own place.

 

[two sheds]

with them in it

 

[pbsmooth]

Better to forcefully remove them and make it their problem if you want to take it into your own hands.

 

[bluescreen]

True if pre 1998 - but then worth getting it registered. I thought most houses had to be registered after 1925.

The website says the details may be different from those held on the Land Registry website pre 1998.

Scottish law is quite different.

As for England and Wales, first registration is a palaver, and needs an experienced solicitor/conveyancer to prove title. It's years since I was involved in conveyancing but I can assure you that unregistered title isn't always straightforward.

 

[existentialist]

Scottish law is quite different.

As for England and Wales, first registration is a palaver, and needs an experienced solicitor/conveyancer to prove title. It's years since I was involved in conveyancing but I can assure you that unregistered title isn't always straightforward.

Which is, I suppose, just how it needs to be, otherwise a simpler version of the scam in the OP would be worryingly straightforward...

 

[two sheds]

Scottish law is quite different.

As for England and Wales, first registration is a palaver, and needs an experienced solicitor/conveyancer to prove title. It's years since I was involved in conveyancing but I can assure you that unregistered title isn't always straightforward.

I had extended dealing with Land Registry a few years ago and found them surprisingly easy to deal with. I didn't use a solicitor but that wasn't for first registration, and I'm sure you're right it's not always straightforward.

 

[bluescreen]

I had extended dealing with Land Registry a few years ago and found them surprisingly easy to deal with. I didn't use a solicitor but that wasn't for first registration, and I'm sure you're right it's not always straightforward.

Yes, the whole idea of registering land (one of the great Victorian innovations) was to make the whole arcane process straightforward. Which it is, beautifully. Except when there's fraud.

 

[bluescreen]

Here you go, if you're interested in the history:

Registering land for more than 150 years – HM Land Registry

News and updates from HM Land Registry

hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk

 

[two sheds]

Someone across the valley was going for adverse possession of some common land and it was really simple and only cost £6 or so to check who the actual owners were. Was impressed.

 

[Ax^]

with them in it

id make sure no one was in it I'm not evil

unless of course the scammers were around

 

[Ax^]

Then you'd be nicked for arson. The case would be interesting though, arguing you'd only set fire to your own place.

would also be fun to see how much petrol you could throw around the house before the police start to think it might be more than a civil matter

 

[two sheds]

too much petrol and it would be downright rude

 

[Elpenor]

I would burn the bloody place down if the police turn up after someone nicked my house and told me it was a civil matter


but that just me

A chap nearby to me did that, slightly different circumstances though.

Bitter husband burned down cottage to spite wife

John McCorry torched the property and told neighbours 'I'm watching it burn' just hours before it was due to be sold during a divorce

www.devonlive.com

 

[two sheds]

Wasn't it a tad silly burning it before the divorce?

 

[rubbershoes]

The police were talking bollocks of course. I'm sure we're all thinking nemo dat quod non habet. No one can sell what they do not own.

The fault here is likely to be with the seller's solicitors for not checking the ID of the seller properly. The house is likely to be transferred back to the ownership of the actual original owner and the solicitor's insurers will repay the buyer.

As Elpenor says, the Solicitors Regulation Authority will be taking a hard look at the solicitors' conduct and processes. They may be in on it or may just have been duped. It's doubtful they were in on it as the people involved are unlikely to agree to throw away their careers and livelihood for a share of £130k.

The seller's solicitors should have done better. Everyone doing conveyancing has regular training on money laundering which includes the need to ensure proper ID is obtained.

My guess is that someone with 10 hours work to do in an 8 hour day accepted a photocopy/faxed copy of a passport/driving licence without insisting on seeing the original. The SRA will rightly be hard on them

 

[two sheds]

whether that's the solicitor or the minion though ... you'd imagine it should be the solicitor

 

[ricbake]

This current story is a vicar who has lost his house and it looks like the solicitor accepted properly dodgy id to allow the fraudulent sale to go through. Luton man left shocked as his house is ‘stolen’
Police generally will try to fob off any report of fraud, unless they are fraud squad.
Problem is now the new "owner" who bought from the fraudsters is correctly registered at the Land Registry and the de-frauded Vicar may not be entitled to recover the house.
But this is hardly a new problem - File on 4 from 2009 - BBC Radio 4 - File on 4, Who stole my house?

 

[moochedit]

But if the house has been sold for a while it might not be registered. It will show unavailable…

True if pre 1998 - but then worth getting it registered. I thought most houses had to be registered after 1925.

The website says the details may be different from those held on the Land Registry website pre 1998.

I suspect the scammers would prefer houses already registered as otherwise the soliciter will ask them for paperwork deeds etc which would be too much hassle.

Not sure if you can set up an alert on an unregistered address? If you can then any "sale" has to be registered triggering an alert.

I have had alerts set up for my mums house for about 3 years now. You can do them for any property so they don't have to know about it (although my mum knows in my case).

 

[rubbershoes]

Problem is now the new "owner" who bought from the fraudsters is correctly registered at the Land Registry and the de-frauded Vicar may not be entitled to recover the house.

The court can order the ownership be transferred back to the vicar