Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
Twattor
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, in terms of community involvement then the beerhive has real potential to involve people and bring them together. I'd rather be involved in brewing and tasting something I'm involved in than watching rubbish on sky sports whilst being subjected to generic lager in an identikit pub.
brixtonblade
Well-Known Member
There should be somewhere to watch sport on telly though. Watched the gold cup in the Canterbury... not sure where I'll be able to watch it next year.
editor
hiraethified
Sports pub guide here: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/04/...o-the-best-pubs-to-watch-sport-on-in-brixton/ Need to add the Hero in there as they do sports, yes?
brixtonblade
Well-Known Member
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Dunno. Does it have seating etc? I might like the beer, but as an unwaged metropolitan house husband I can't see me buying too many £4 pints though.
But for the leisured middle classes it will be fine I'm sure.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Is it the same group who used to be in arches behind TK Maxx?
Hello! Don't mean to intrude but just wanted to say that we are a cooperative brewery which currently houses beers from Clarkshaws (me) and Brixton beer labs too (not English hops). We do have seating and a heater, pints are £3.50 for cask and £4.00 for craft lager. If you haven't been flyered, mention the discount code 8eer4u and we'll knock 50p off your first pint too.
We'd love to be involved in the local community as much as we can, we're already currently trying to work with Loughborough Patchwork Farm and would be interested in other avenues to contribute. We're thinking of hosting board games on Sunday for families, novices and advanced players alike.
Last year we brewed with hops grown in people's back gardens picked fresh and brought to the brewery within 24 hours of picking to be turned into beer. Everyone who contributed hops got around 10 pints to bring home with them once the beer was finished and we would look to do the same again this year.
We'd love to be involved in the local community as much as we can, we're already currently trying to work with Loughborough Patchwork Farm and would be interested in other avenues to contribute. We're thinking of hosting board games on Sunday for families, novices and advanced players alike.
Last year we brewed with hops grown in people's back gardens picked fresh and brought to the brewery within 24 hours of picking to be turned into beer. Everyone who contributed hops got around 10 pints to bring home with them once the beer was finished and we would look to do the same again this year.
brixtonblade
Well-Known Member
Board games + booze! I'm in.
So pleased abut this plan, living on LR it's literally going to change my life!
I heard it was due to be voted on by the council last week, anyone know?
I heard it was due to be voted on by the council last week, anyone know?
Apparently the date for a decision on this has been put back again until after the election which will be on Thursday 7 May.
The Lambeth website now shows this decision as "not before Monday 11 May."
http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/mgListPlanItems.aspx?PlanId=575&RP=137 -- (See item 34 on that page).
The Lambeth website now shows this decision as "not before Monday 11 May."
http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/mgListPlanItems.aspx?PlanId=575&RP=137 -- (See item 34 on that page).
LadyV
Well-Known Member
I'm all for putting it back, that gives those of us who are against it a bit more time to get in touch with the councillors for our wards who aren't all in favour of it and maybe contact Jenny Braithwaite who is the Council Cabinet member in charge of the decision.
Surely it offers all sides that opportunity.
Fwiw, I find it *odd* in the least local people don't want to block this suburban/Croydon rat run and to really dramatically reduce the levels of environmental pollution. trying to stop this sounds about as sensible at the LTDA trying to block the new segregated super highways: welcome to the 1970s!
The concept of Induced Demand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
Is this about *fear of change* ...?
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
The rat run is that tiny stretch of Hinton south of Coldharbour Lane.
If that was made for access only it would seriously reduce the attractions of cruising down from Herne Hill via Loughborough Road. And it would cost a lot less to implement.
Instead of isolating the tenants of Loughborough Estate and all the other social housing in that part of Coldharbour Ward AND jeopardising viability of small businesses in all the railway arches and at the back of Loughborough Junction station the transport planners need to go back to their drawing boards.
Sorry but no. The rat run runs from HH station, Milkwood, through Loughborogh Rd to Akerman/Patmos Rd (or Dulwich Village > Red Post Hill, HH R) - ask any Croydon/Palace/etc minicab driver or just put the SatNav on from Bulleah Hill/Crystal Palace Parade. The key is absolutely at the junction with CHL and Loughborough Rd.
Top South London fav of commuters and cabbies alike - you bypass all the actual or potential traffic at the bottom of Denmark Hill or Brixton town centre in like 90 seconds.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
Is the prospect of the two main routes being even more congested and polluted a good thing ?
there is a feeling in the area that this is not just a side effect of the scheme but the desired outcome of it.
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Is it better to have thousands and thousands of cars creating a daily rat run through a really hugely dense residential street with a Junior School half way down? Locals only please.
See above link - Induced Demand.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
Me, I'm looking at them now out my window 
Surely Milkwood and Loughborough roads are a bit big to be described as rat runs. They are part of a long established route and Milkwood is a B road - B222.
It must be an accident of history that LR isn't also classified in that way.
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brixtonblade
Well-Known Member
Am I right in thinking that there hasn't been a proper traffic study done or any figures published about desired outcomes of the closure?
My gut feel is that it's probably not a good change as the benefits wont outweigh the inconveniences but it would be nice to have some evidence to base this on.
It'd also help to assess alternative options - CH1's idea seems sensible to me but again that's just based on gut feel.
My gut feel is that it's probably not a good change as the benefits wont outweigh the inconveniences but it would be nice to have some evidence to base this on.
It'd also help to assess alternative options - CH1's idea seems sensible to me but again that's just based on gut feel.
I guess you can define 'rat run' to suit your argument. Fwiw, Wikipedia says:
"Rat running, cut-through driving or shortcut, is using secondary roads, cemetery roads, or residential side streets instead of the intended main roads in urban or suburban areas"
I don't really know your point beyond your suggestion that about 1/3 of a rat run is a B road? It runs between 2 A roads, it is a shortcut (in time), it is a really high density residential area, it has a Junior School ... back to how I started, 'rat run' probably has as many definitions as people have views ...
However you want to describe it, in my view around 98% of the traffic going past my window is driving through and choosing to avoid Brixton and Camberwell Green.
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I don't know but I wish to God there was because the issue would be over.
eta: Aha! about 4-5 weeks ago they put in those rubber covered wires across the road - counting traffic! Now it makes sense - the delay until May, I mean.
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teuchter
je suis teuchter
bolgerp
Active Member
Not sure if this has been posted already so apologies if it has.
https://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...oughborough-junction-and-myatt-s-fields-areas
https://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...oughborough-junction-and-myatt-s-fields-areas
The statement at the beginning of that petition either misunderstands or hasn't grassped the basics. There really needs to be a conversation between residents and experts.
If the signatories looked at the consequences of restrictive measures at say,TCR (Crossrail related), they would understand closures actually reduce traffic in secondary streets (to the closures) as well (as the traffic itself selects another route from further out, or just doesn't journey): or, instead, remember back in the day all the doom stories about the roads that fringed the brand new congestion zone - like Park Lane - which would be clogged 24/7 ...
Maybe the point that should be made more clearly is that this is mostly about drivers selecting a route (themselves or via GPS) from way further out than many local residents seem to assume. Overwhelmingly, drivers do not drive as they did, then bump into the new road layout, then circumvent it. Things just don't work that way, at least not after the first few days
If the signatories looked at the consequences of restrictive measures at say,TCR (Crossrail related), they would understand closures actually reduce traffic in secondary streets (to the closures) as well (as the traffic itself selects another route from further out, or just doesn't journey): or, instead, remember back in the day all the doom stories about the roads that fringed the brand new congestion zone - like Park Lane - which would be clogged 24/7 ...
Maybe the point that should be made more clearly is that this is mostly about drivers selecting a route (themselves or via GPS) from way further out than many local residents seem to assume. Overwhelmingly, drivers do not drive as they did, then bump into the new road layout, then circumvent it. Things just don't work that way, at least not after the first few days
LadyV
Well-Known Member
You obviously live in the area Up the Junction, I'm not exactly sure where but I don't feel overly polluted where I live, which is 2 minutes away from the junction in question. However at the moment I do feel safe, something I can't see continuing if the road is blocked off. I know from previous comments, you don't believe it but traffic moving through the area is a form of deterrent to crime and anti social behaviour and in the past when the junction has been blocked for roadworks, there has been more drunks and groups of youths than normal hanging around at the junction and trust me as a woman walking through the area on her own, I certainly didn't feel safe, they may seem harmless but they're very intimidating, which doesn't make for a happy life. At the moment, they can only hang out by Save More but this plan will give them seats so they can sit whilst they heckle and abuse people as they go past and presumably also nice planters that they can then use as a toilet!
For me this isn't necessarily about the traffic situation, I have a car but it isn't my regular method for getting around, this is about my own personal safety, the police already don't like showing their faces around there but at least they have to drive through the area to get places so there is a bit of a presence, if the road is blocked off, that will stop and the police will only come when called.
There are other ways to make the route unpalatable to drivers, speed cameras, get rid of the free parking, make the road narrower, build in proper bike lanes, zebra crossings, pelican crossings, all those things would reduce the traffic and to some extent fulfil your desire for reducing pollution but without making the immediate area near the junction a ghetto.
Hi Lady V - I live on LR, actually facing the road and so get the full effect of air and noise pollution. It’s made somewhat worse by needing a window open as the building, even with the central heating turned off, is not otherwise bearable. This scheme would make so much difference to me personally..
Understood – your concern is safety. Fwiw, your argument reminds me of the rationale for not fully pedestrianising the Brixton end of Effra Rd (alongside St Marks) which I regret every time I walk through there but, equally, I’m a well-built bloke and there are easier targets …
Is it your view that LJ is unique or at least very different to elsewhere because pedestrianisation and schemes like lie the one proposed have been commonplace for many years now – Herne Hill is the classic local example?
Just to add … the most common terms used by respondents to the survey to describe the current situation were ‘dirty’ ‘dangerous’ and ‘busy’, so it’s widely accepted there are problems now.
What I would say to you – and this is based on my experience in November – just as a lumpy bloke needs to appreciate your position, try also to think how it is for school kids coming out of school or playing with their friends – I’m talking about the ‘dangerous’ characterisation. Fwiw, my bumper touched the leg of a girl who’d run out, her hand went on my bonnet and I can see her looking through the screen at me now. Another ½ second…. And then she ran off across the rest of the road without even looking … it's the Primary school, of course.
So, if we are talking about safety, please also think of school kids running down LR, with their friends lost in their excitement. Or how kids never seem to understand 4-way junctions... the maj view is very much that it is dangerous as it is.
Do you not think effective CCTV coverage, good lighting, etc, can address your concerns?
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