Lord of the Flies with girls.

[Orang Utan]

A lame unoriginal idea that should have never made it out of the student common room.

ironically, that's exactly what your hot take is

 

[Orang Utan]

So, yes, support a film about this. But don't try to make this sort of film out of 'Lord of the Flies which, as one person in their tweet wrote, is about "the replication of systemic masculine toxicity".

Is this central theme of the whole work the subject you are trying to avoid?

I'm not trying to avoid anything, but if you are going to make a film of Lord Of The Flies with girls, it needs to be about how girls might behave. I'm sure it is possible to make a film about how the girls' behaviour might be a reaction to the 'toxic masculinity' of the world they've left behind.

 

[Sirena]

I'm not trying to avoid anything, but if you are going to make a film of Lord Of The Flies with girls, it needs to be about how girls might behave. I'm sure it is possible to make a film about how the girls' behaviour might be a reaction to the 'toxic masculinity' of the world they've left behind.

The whole point about why is is called Lord of the Flies is that the Lord of the Flies is, in standard demonology, a title of Beelzebub, half-brother of Satan. And that unfettered expression of pre-mature testosterone (the boys without teachers or other controls) is of the demonic nature of evil and death.

Girls wouldn't express this and so the whole point of the story, the theme of it, is gone. So it's not the story because it's not about the Lord of the Flies.

 

[Orang Utan]

The whole point about why is is called Lord of the Flies is that the Lord of the Flies is, in standard demonology, Beelzebub, half-brother of Satan. And that unfettered expression of pre-mature testosterone (the boys without teachers or other controls) is of the nature of evil and death.

Girls wouldn't express this and so the whole point of the story, the theme of it, is gone. So it's not the story because it's not about the Lord of the Flies.

it's ONE of the points of the story. It's such a rich story with so much to say about not just "toxic masculinity" (which damages everyone, not just boys). The book is set after an apocalyptic war meant to reflect the total societal breakdown that came with WW2 and its aftermath in Europe - so there is plenty of room for a scenario in which girls are beastly to each other too.
Anyway, I'm relying on memory of my GCSE studies here, but The Lord Of The Flies, Biblical meaning aside, refers to the rotting pig's head on a stake used as a sacrifice to this imaginary beast they concoct in order to justify their violence and othering of each other. That could easily work with girls too. Humanity is the beast here - it's the men who tend to make war, yes, but, it would be interesting to see how girls might behave badly in response to the heightened situation of being marooned on a desert island, believing that there is no rescue as most of humanity has perished.

 

[mojo pixy]

In terms of island-based allegories, I prefer Island by Aldous Huxley (and why doesn't that get made into a fucking TV show?)

In terms books featuring the words Lord of the in the title, I rate Rings over Flies.

In terms of answering the key question, ''What would our fathers do?'', Capital by Karl Marx is way more informative.

Lord of the Flies. I hate that book, not surprised it's been made into a TV show. More pandering to misanthropy.

 

[Orang Utan]

I reckon most people hate it just cos it was taught at school

 

[Orang Utan]

In terms of island-based allegories, I prefer Island by Aldous Huxley (and why doesn't that get made into a fucking TV show?)

In terms books featuring the words Lord of the in the title, I rate Rings over Flies.

In terms of answering the key question, ''What would our fathers do?'', Capital by Karl Marx is way more informative.

Lord of the Flies. I hate that book, not surprised it's been made into a TV show. More pandering to misanthropy.

It hasn't been made into a tv show

 

[mojo pixy]

I hate it because it made me feel horrible when I read it.

 

[Sirena]

Humanity is the beast here

Only because you want it to be. But not in this book.

 

[JimW]

They should remake it about a load of sysadmins and call it Lord of the Files

 

[mojo pixy]

I reckon most people hate it just cos it was taught at school

Yeah, I hate the fact it gets taught to kids, too. So many books to choose from to teach kids about life and the world. Why choose that one?

 

[Orang Utan]

Only because you want it to be. But not in this book.

but i'm talking about a potential film adaptation with girls instead of boys and suggesting how the film makers might be able to do it. there's a lot of scope for examining patriarchy (which produces these polarities of masculine and feminine) by examining the behaviour of girls and how they've been socialised to be 'feminine'.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yeah, I hate the fact it gets taught to kids, too. So many books to choose from to teach kids about life and the world. Why choose that one?

cos it's an astute look at 'life and the world'

 

[mojo pixy]

There are lots of those to choose from though.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yeah, I hate the fact it gets taught to kids, too. So many books to choose from to teach kids about life and the world. Why choose that one?

note that in the end order is restored by the arrival of a british officer who chides them for poor form. The beast is back in the box. Quite telling imo.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's feeding kids' expectations of each other and as such it serves a certain system very well.

 

[Orang Utan]

There are lots of those to choose from though.

so? Lord Of The Flies is an excellent book and ought to be taught as there are valuable observations made about masculinity, human nature, civilisation and its breakdown, etc etc

 

[Orang Utan]

note that in the end order is restored by the arrival of a british officer who chides them for poor form. The beast is back in the box. Quite telling imo.

one can teach that too though, my teacher certainly did

 

[Gromit]

The story is about what happens when the constraints of adult authority are removed from some children.
You can project it further to constraints of civilisation under the extremes of survival conditions.

I think it's people's own prejudices when they start throwing around terms such as toxic masculinity and harbour the belief girls wouldn't act as bad under similar conditions. It may happen at a different speed or direction but there would be comparisons.

Nobody believes they could be capeble of say eating another person. Yet in extreme circumstances civilised men and women have done so. It's conceit to truly believe this.

 

[Orang Utan]

well that's only one of the things the story is about - if the film is going to be effective and be relevant to what's going on now, it also needs to address 'toxic masculinity'. I just think it could be interesting if this is done by looking at the behaviour of girls instead, especially if there are no men in the film at all - making a film about 'a thing' without any sight of that thing

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I presume they will be girls from nowadays rather than 20th century kids. 1940s boys would be used to playing outside and could just get on straight away with sharpening sticks and stuff, whereas 2017 girls would might be more concerned with checking in on Facebook.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I can see how it could work, but if it's written by two men, I remain sceptical.

And if two women wrote male characters?

 

[Orang Utan]

And if two women wrote male characters?

what about what about what about

 

[Johnny Vodka]

what about what about what about

I'll let you answer my question in your own time.

Don't have an issue with this and not sure how anyone else can at this stage. Feminists were fapping over a female Ghostbusters after all, and it's not like girls don't bully each other, just supposedly in a different way to boys..

 

[Orang Utan]

oh ffs

 

[Johnny Vodka]

oh ffs

Quite.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'll let you answer my question in your own time.

Don't have an issue with this and not sure how anyone else can at this stage. Feminists were fapping over a female Ghostbusters after all, and it's not like girls don't bully each other, just supposedly in a different way to boys..

People were talking about the Ghostbusters remake and idiots got upset by the idea.

 

[8den]

Excerpts from the All-Girl Remake of “Lord of the Flies”

We need meat,” Jackie said. “The little ’uns have had nothing but fruit for days.”

“I’m a vegetarian,” said Ralphy. “So I’m honestly fine.”

Jackie rolled her eyes. “Yeah, I think you’ve mentioned it. But the rest of us would really like to not die from protein deficiency.”

“That’s a common misconception, actually?” Ralphy offered. “There are a lot of ways to get protein without needing meat.”

“Yeah,” Simone added. “I mean, I eat meat, but I’ve read that it’s actually great for the environment and for your health to have at least one meat-free day a week. So that’s what I’m thinking of this as!”

Jackie was annoyed but stopped herself from saying something rude. Hadn’t she just been talking with her therapist about how she always sabotaged new relationships?

“O.K.,” she nodded. “You’re right.”

Back home, she started a blog about what she had learned from her weeks going vegan. Her friends all secretly agreed that it was insufferable, but also that at least she hadn’t murdered any of them, or started worshipping a pig god.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

It was specifically written about boys. Golding was exploring wider issues about masculinity.

So basically like most literature until fairly recent times, still probably in predominance...

 

[bemused]

People were talking about the Ghostbusters remake and idiots got upset by the idea.

The only thing that upset me about Ghostbusters is it was a shit remake of a funny film.