London in the 1970s

[Minnie_the_Minx]

This looks a bit more familiar




I seem to remember wood in the doors which contributed towards the musty/dusty smell

 

[davesgcr]

That's a very clean looking train. Doesn't look like any of the ones that were on the Southend line

Indeed , the old Southend line trains were in a class of their own for general dirt , dust and unmentionable items.British Rail did not get its act together on general cleaning until the mid !980's - beginning with ( I kid you not) - "Operation Sparkle" which did a vast programme of deep cleaning to remove decades of ground in dirt - the outsides were covered in a film of brake block dust (iron filings basically) which could only be removed with hot water and steel wool ! - and the lethal detergent they used "Exmover" was prone to leave white streaks if not washed off properly. The removal of the knotted luggage racks was because they could not find skilled staff to re-knot them after constant vandalism. In fact getting any carriage cleaning staff was a nightmare ,as conditions and status was low and the job was pretty dispiriting.

The Northern line had an aroma of its own - black dust from the tunnels (again - much was cleaned off in the 1980's) + brake block dust again from the old clasp brakes.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

and don't forget they stank of cigarettes and if you were unlucky, piss

You forgot the pervading whiff of stale armpit.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

You forgot the pervading whiff of stale armpit.

Luckily, despite my height, we always travelled on practically empty trains, so at least there wasn't any "fresh" whiffs of armpits

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Indeed , the old Southend line trains were in a class of their own for general dirt , dust and unmentionable items.

*so proud*

 

[davesgcr]

Useless fact quote to us a BR Management Trainee ...(bu the Chief Rolling Stock Engineer , SE Division)

"each day , 2 tons of brake block dust are deposited around London and the SE" - explains why the trains were drab blue in the suburbs (with dirt) and stations were painted with black woodwork and grey-ish paint , tinged with embedded orange dust from the brake shoes.

I miss the atmosphere .........of the 70's railway.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Useless fact quote to us a BR Management Trainee ...(bu the Chief Rolling Stock Engineer , SE Division)

"each day , 2 tons of brake block dust are deposited around London and the SE" - explains why the trains were drab blue in the suburbs (with dirt) and stations were painted with black woodwork and grey-ish paint , tinged with embedded orange dust from the brake shoes.

I miss the atmosphere .........of the 70's railway.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Useless fact quote to us a BR Management Trainee ...(bu the Chief Rolling Stock Engineer , SE Division)

"each day , 2 tons of brake block dust are deposited around London and the SE" - explains why the trains were drab blue in the suburbs (with dirt) and stations were painted with black woodwork and grey-ish paint , tinged with embedded orange dust from the brake shoes.

I miss the atmosphere .........of the 70's railway.

Why were the Southend lines so dirty, or were all lines running out of London as dirty?

 

[davesgcr]

Much to do with local management of the time, plus endemic vandalism , lack of staff and few proper cleaning locations (most of the stock was parked up in sidings that had no wash plants and even no hot water or electricity supplies - basically a mop and bucket job)

Afte NSE came in - there was much attention given to this , and vehicles were allocated to distinct depots for cleaning (as apart from a general pool) - so that Southend Victoria used to triumph in the cleanest trains league - they used to send out "mystery shoppers" to score on what you would now call "ambience" - plus the new trains had smoother sides and less pockets to catch the dirt , and the insides were easier to clean.In my day we used to light clean daily, an enhanced clean weekly - and a "PHC" or planned heavy clean every 28 days.

The Kent inner suburban trains were pretty bad till the same process started - and new trains - till Connex brought in their own standards !!!!

 

[pseudonarcissus]

is the fine for pulling the emergency chain still 50 pounds? back in the 70s that seemed an incredible sum, more than a lifetime of pocket money

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Much to do with local management of the time, plus endemic vandalism , lack of staff and few proper cleaning locations (most of the stock was parked up in sidings that had no wash plants and even no hot water or electricity supplies - basically a mop and bucket job)

Afte NSE came in - there was much attention given to this , and vehicles were allocated to distinct depots for cleaning (as apart from a general pool) - so that Southend Victoria used to triumph in the cleanest trains league - they used to send out "mystery shoppers" to score on what you would now call "ambience" - plus the new trains had smoother sides and less pockets to catch the dirt , and the insides were easier to clean.In my day we used to light clean daily, an enhanced clean weekly - and a "PHC" or planned heavy clean every 28 days.

The Kent inner suburban trains were pretty bad till the same process started - and new trains - till Connex brought in their own standards !!!!

Sadly I never got to see the clean trains

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Much to do with local management of the time, plus endemic vandalism , lack of staff and few proper cleaning locations (most of the stock was parked up in sidings that had no wash plants and even no hot water or electricity supplies - basically a mop and bucket job)

In theory (I used to work with someone who in a previous job had planned this sort of thing) the trains were scheduled so that they would get a proper wash at regular intervals (i.e. end up somewhere with full wash facilities once every X amount of time.)

Only snag was that if there was any sort of operational cock-up, e.g. train being cancelled, the train that should have done the 0705 getting diverted to do the 0700 instead, then trains would end up in the wrong place and get missed.

And the potential for operational cock-ups on intensively worked suburban lines is relatively high.

 

[clicker]

These are the ones I remember as a kid. Even then I loved the naturalness of the rope and wood. They hung in the shape of whatever had been placed in it, so from sitting underneath they all looked slightly different, like a row of unwrapped presents.

Hadnt even considered they were hand done, as told above. What a job!

 

[ViolentPanda]

This looks a bit more familiar




I seem to remember wood in the doors which contributed towards the musty/dusty smell

IIRC a lot of the rapes that took place on trains happened in those compartmentalised carriages.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

IIRC a lot of the rapes that took place on trains happened in those compartmentalised carriages.

Yeah, which is why I'd never use them if I was on my own. Glad they got rid of them

 

[Voley]

What a great site. If I ever took a photo half as good as this, I'd be happy:

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, which is why I'd never use them if I was on my own. Glad they got rid of them

So was I, to be fair. I'm a big rough-looking bloke, and even I used to worry, using one of those carriages late at night. Not about rape, but about some group of leery pissheads getting in and having a go.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So was I, to be fair. I'm a big rough-looking bloke, and even I used to worry, using one of those carriages late at night. Not about rape, but about some group of leery pissheads getting in and having a go.

You've just reminded me how sticky the floors were on somw of those trains

 

[Mrs Magpie]

These are the ones I remember as a kid. Even then I loved the naturalness of the rope and wood. They hung in the shape of whatever had been placed in it, so from sitting underneath they all looked slightly different, like a row of unwrapped presents.

Hadnt even considered they were hand done, as told above. What a job!

Before the rope it was strips of leather.

 

[cdg]

I was on a slam door train at Clapham Junction as recently as 2000/2003 I think.

I use a slam door train every weekday that travels between Harrogate and London. And yes you can stick your head out the window if you're daft enough.

 

[davesgcr]

In theory (I used to work with someone who in a previous job had planned this sort of thing) the trains were scheduled so that they would get a proper wash at regular intervals (i.e. end up somewhere with full wash facilities once every X amount of time.)

Only snag was that if there was any sort of operational cock-up, e.g. train being cancelled, the train that should have done the 0705 getting diverted to do the 0700 instead, then trains would end up in the wrong place and get missed.

And the potential for operational cock-ups on intensively worked suburban lines is relatively high.

I used to really annoy the Control Office by ringing them up at say 2300 and asking for a list of all washed trains on the desk for 0830. Kept them on their toes as trains from the North London lines were stabled overnight in Euston were supposed to go to Camden Yard and through the wash plant each night - course this didn't always happen. I was appalled at the interior state of those trains and got a heavy cleaning operation going to get them into good order - first thing was to lob a fumigating bomb in - having removed all the seat covers ....amazingly , people noticed the sudden betterment in the trains and we even got a few compliments.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

first thing was to lob a fumigating bomb in - having removed all the seat covers ...

did you remove the passengers as well?

 

[xenon]

I remember the wreke of pidgeon shit at stations as well. Thornton Heath anyway. Don't seem to notice that so much now. I imagine the rooves are treated with something to put them off roosting.

I think Clapham Yard is one such place where trains are cleaned. Returned by driver's running back "empties."

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I remember the wreke of pidgeon shit at stations as well. Thornton Heath anyway. Don't seem to notice that so much now. I imagine the rooves are treated with something to put them off roosting.

I think Clapham Yard is one such place where trains are cleaned. Returned by driver's running back "empties."

re pigeons - combination of netting to stop them getting in to places like underneath bridges, and lots of spikey things (generally plastic, so uncomfortable rather than lethal) on surfaces they are likely to perch

re Clapham - yes, there is at least one train wash between Clapham and Queenstown Road, and some empty trains between Clapham yard and Waterloo get routed through it. Traditionally, only empty trains have been routed through wash units, and the train crew need to make sure all windows are shut first. Now that (most) trains have sealed windows, I suppose they could run passenger trains through, but it might alarm some passengers!

 

[xenon]

Ah I thought it might have been a bit more high tech than that, the anti pigeon measures. You'd think they'd have come up with thwarting them like that decades ago.


Heh, I spose I never thought it was like a car wash, drive through system. Though my dad drove trains from Waterloo.

Do you stil get weighing scales on station platforms? That always seemed a bit incongruous?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Do you stil get weighing scales on station platforms? That always seemed a bit incongruous?

Not seen any lately - but do you mean for weighing people or parcels? The parcels trade has pretty much gone from the railways now.

 

[xenon]

People. I'm sure they were for people. At least, you could stand on them. Had an oversized dial.

 

[skyscraper101]

This one I find fascinating, the proximity of all that empty space, like wasteland next to such iconic landmarks as St. Pauls and Tower Bridge. Amazing.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

People. I'm sure they were for people. At least, you could stand on them. Had an oversized dial.

I remember those. They were huge (or maybe they just seemed huge because I was a child)

I remember you didn't have to pay to use the loos back then either

 

[scanner]

Anyone remember the double decker trains that ran on the Southern Railway routes through London Bridge to the southeast? That was back in the 50s.