Living in Hong Kong

[Yossarian]

There's a difference between encountering things which you find difficult and strange, and writing a blog which drips with contempt. Lots of expats do talk like that, you're right. A lot of expats on the mainland like to repeat the refrain 'Only in China!'. I avoid them.

It just sounds like 'It's not fair! I don't like it! They're doing it wrong!'.

Hong Kong seems especially bad for it IME, probably because of its past as a British colony - you meet plenty of the kind of people who have been here for 25 years or more and seem quite proud of the fact that they haven't learned a word of Cantonese in that time.

 

[gabi]

i cant imagine spending 25 years here, but then i suppose i cant imagine spending 25 years anywhere i guess. im liking it more and more as i go though. and missing London less and less.

the benefits out-weigh the frustrations all in all.

i think that blog is very much tongue-in-cheek fwiw.

 

[tombowler]

the "only in insert country here" refrain is common with UK and US expats in many places. I do question why they are here (or there) when I hear this used as a complaint. That said it can be an expression of amazement at some thing rather than a complaint.

Glad you like HK I have a friend who has lived there for many years and he seems happy to stay there. Oh and he can speak some cantonese.

 

[gabi]

Indeed, it's not a complaint as such. Just observations. Im sure Chinese people do the same when they visit my country (NZ) or the UK. There are some things which are truly astonishing to someone fresh off the boat. A category I still belong to really.

The major difference I've noticed after a year here and after 15 in London - rules. They love rules and god forbid if you attempt to bend them. I've got used to this to some degree but I think if I do return to London it will be some kind of reverse culture shock thing.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

Hong Kong seems especially bad for it IME, probably because of its past as a British colony - you meet plenty of the kind of people who have been here for 25 years or more and seem quite proud of the fact that they haven't learned a word of Cantonese in that time.

I also think perhaps there's a correlation between how easy it is to live there, and how many of those kinds of people you find there. One of the things I like about where we live now is that the weather averaging at around -15 C for nearly half the year, the lack of Western services and the absence of anything cultural ( ) means that people who hate China last very briefly here. In contrast we used to live in Jiangsu near Shanghai where it's easy to pretend you're not in China, eat Western food every day and socialise in expat enclaves; that place was riddled with people who hated China. I suspect Hong Kong offers even more westernised stuff which means that people who don't actually like the place can last a long time, complaining all the while.

OTOH, I don't really mind if people don't learn the language, as long as they don't complain no one speaks English.

 

[gabi]

ironically im getting a bit of the 'superiority' thing coming through from your posts here. the blog is just (quite a funny) rant at a lot of the frustrations we face here.

i could equally write one about my years in London, just cant be arsed. everywhere has its issues, dont see why someone cant write about it.

i sit near a dude who has just arrived here from london, and hearing him on the phone trying to set up a bank account, finding out where his boxes are etc etc is bringing back all those memories. hes tearing his hair out, id like to tell him it does get easier but i dont even know his name. we all move here for the experience more than anything and i dont regret it for a moment, as im sure you don't. but a quality rant now and then is definitely acceptable, in my eyes anyway.

 

[ReturnOfElfman]

I have rants a fair bit about China but usually to my Chinese wife

Some of the guys I hang around with because of rugby go way too far though. Pisses me off a fair bit.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Thanks man. I'm sure it will. Might as well experience island living now we've come all this way. Commuting by boat will be interesting too. And the dog can actually be off the leash too. She loved it there. There's someone poisoning dogs in our area so its impossible to let her off.

An old uni friend has lived in HK for the best part of 20 years now, and lives on one of the islands. The commute by boat doesn't seem to be a problem - apart from having to make sure he catches the last boat (no difference to living in the suburbs and last trains really). Typhoons can cause disruption I think. There isn't a shop on his island but one or more of the old women have makeshift shops for essential stuff.

I hope you get a bit more settled as you have had a rough time over the past few months with work and your health.

 

[gabi]

I'm feeling fairly settled. Always a bit on edge as workers have virtually no rights here so im always kinda in fear im gonna get sacked. They dont need to give a reason. My boss and my team are all locals so i have no idea whats being said about me, just overhear my name sometimes in their conversations. If i get sacked, im screwed as i have no savings and will have to pay a massive tax bill before they'll let me fly out.

But yeh. I'm doing alright all things considered, thanks for the good thoughts

 

[gabi]

not sure how much longer i can deal with this. on the verge. i can see the place's charms but the working atmosphere is across the board just fucking abominable. im not the only one who says that btw, and its not meant as some 'superior' expat claim. they just dont know how to get shit done. they'll sit at their desks till 11 and still produce absolutely nothing.

most expats last two years before throwing in the towel, ive lasted a year. i get five days leave for my wedding so im gonna wait till ive used that and then i think im gonna have to give up. i cant deal with these people anymore. i cant believe i used to complain about my job in london. apols for the self-indulgent rant.

 

[Lea]

((((gabi)))))

I understand what you are saying. I have a few friends in HK. I know that one of them is always stressed all the time. She works until 10pm or 11pm and then does some more work when she gets home! I've thought about going to HK just for the experience but then think that it's going to be too many hours in the working day. I keep hearing nightmare stories about people working really late. That's no kind of life even if salaries are higher and taxes lower.

I think I might end up being miserable. I find the HKers rather rude. The crowds. The heat. OK for a holiday but I don't know about the long term.

 

[Virtual Blue]

HK is only fun if you're loaded and not dependent on your job.

 

[Lea]

HK is only fun if you're loaded and not dependent on your job.

But it's so small and crowded. All right for food I guess if you like eating out and shopping and more shopping.

 

[Virtual Blue]

i don't mind the crowded-ness.
what would bore me is the lack of variety of things to do - culturally it's rather stunted.

HK rude? blunt honest imo.
not very tactful and that can get on people's nerves.
very conservative also.
even the younger generation

 

[Lea]

i don't mind the crowded-ness.
what would bore me is the lack of variety of things to do - culturally it's rather stunted.

HK rude? blunt honest imo.
not very tactful and that can get on people's nerves.
very conservative also.
even the younger generation

I'd have to get one of those "return home permits" so that I could go to China to get away from HK every now and then. I'd have to find a bit of countryside.

Not just blunt but really rude in my opinion. There are exceptions of course. Do you speak Cantonese when you are out there? If you don't speak it with a perfect HK accent then they think you are a mainlander and treat you like sh!t. They are always complaining about the mainland visitors being rude but I say that they the HKers are worse. Oh yeah there's this campaign in HK to stop mainland tourists from coming down to HK just because they don't like them. How stupid is that for the economy?

 

[Virtual Blue]

HK should be left to run independently.
Cantonese should be the national language.
HK Chinese should be able to voice their opinion on the future of their country.

There's a distinction between HK Chinese and Mainlanders - it'll be a bloody sad day if that difference is gone.

China is a cultural eating machine.
Minces everyone and everything up.
It's disregarding. Uncompromising.

 

[Lea]

HK should be left to run independently.
Cantonese should be the national language.
HK Chinese should be able to voice their opinion on the future of their country.

There's a distinction between HK Chinese and Mainlanders - it'll be a bloody sad day if that difference is gone.

China is a cultural eating machine.
Minces everyone and everything up.
It's disregarding. Uncompromising.

I disagree. It's like saying that London should be set apart from the rest of UK. HK has never independent.

There is no distinction between HK Chinese and mainlanders except for the fact that HK Chinese think that they are superior to mainland Chinese. Culturally and language wise there is no difference between HK and the rest of Guangdong province. If you talk about culture I would say Beijingers are more cultured than HKers. Cantonese as a language/dialect can be maintained. There is room for it to be a bilingual even trilingual speaking city.

 

[Virtual Blue]

Lea, you are thinking in absolutes.
There's no talk of inferiority or superiority.
Who's buying up all the properties? Who's pushing a version of history/ language into the schools? Why do China refuse a free democratic process in HK - all this damn fakery about a pre-approved, pre-elected leadership...?

i don't really see the China/ HK as an argument as who's less civilized. more to do with rights and promises.
how the one country two systems is under threat...

 

[Lea]

You said that there is a distinction between HK Chinese and mainland Chinese. Explain your statement first.

Why was there no democratic process when it was a colony?

Democracy is not always the best solution. Compare democratic India and one party system China. I've travelled in both countries and I can say that there is a lot less poverty in China than in India. What is the use of being able to vote when you have nothing to eat.

 

[Virtual Blue]

democratic process when it was a colony...

the HK we knew ran very well as a colony - you know that.

democracy is not always the best solution.

only if the practice of democracy is corrupt.
we're not talking about the distribution of wealth (india) or Mugabe's vision on what democracy should be.

i can't see how your travelling experiences can justify you saying that HK people don't deserve democracy.

You said that there is a distinction between HK Chinese and mainland Chinese. Explain your statement first.

you're talking about a tiny province (guangdong) as representative of mainland china.
i'm saying that Hong Kong is independent of China with it's own uniqueness in identity, history and culture. it's neither better or worse. just that it's their own.

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

Cantonese as a language/dialect can be maintained.

To someone who doesn't speak a word of it, Catonese sounds a million times nicer than Mandarin. The tones are so much more expressive. I hope nothing happens to it in my lifetime as I'd like to learn it one day.

 

[Lea]

To someone who doesn't speak a word of it, Catonese sounds a million times nicer than Mandarin. The tones are so much more expressive. I hope nothing happens to it in my lifetime as I'd like to learn it one day.

Cantonese is harsher than Mandarin. Less poetic. There are 9 tones as opposed to 4 in Mandarin. I don't think it will die out in the near future. It's still taught as first language in HK whereas mandarin is the second language. It's still spoken by millions of people in provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi as well as by overseas Chinese.

 

[skyscraper101]

Sounds like the opposite of LA. people tend to knock off around 4pm and be eating dinner by 6pm. One of the things I quite like here.

That said, it misses the buzziness of somewhere like London or (I imagine) HK.

 

[gabi]

HK is only fun if you're loaded and not dependent on your job.

We are all dependent on our jobs, I say we, meaning expats, as we are sponsored by our employers for our visas.

And you feel loaded when you first get here as you don't pay any income tax for your first year, ie, you receive your gross income and are supposed to put 15% aside yourself for that inevitable tax bill in a years time, which of course many people don't. Including me. That's my own fault, but I actually do miss PAYE.

HK is cool, but yes, a weeks gig listing in London's timeout would be about 2 years here. So there's often not much to do except eat and drink. Oh, and work.

I had it out with my boss and HR. Told them exactly their shortcomings and the boss almost actually broke down herself. We just do not understand each other I guess, not her fault, not my fault. Just a lot is lost in translation.