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Legal advice needed can you help?

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Edie

Well-Known Member
Hey. As you might know I need to have this bastard neurosurgery in just over two weeks for a brain aneurysm.

I’ve just had the Neurovascular Nurse Specialist call me up to ask who my next of kin is. I don’t know. Here are my questions if any of you can help I’d really appreciate it...

1. Is NOK on hospital forms whoever you want it to be, or does it need to be a family member? I’m guessing this is who they call if I have a stroke or die or whatever. I don’t think I want it to be my lad, would prefer it to be my best mate or my man. Is this possible?

2. If the worst happens and I lose capacity... I currently don’t have Power of Attorney for health or wealth. Who would it fall to to make the decisions? I know the medical team would hold the ultimate decision in acute care, but for shit like moving to best supportive care and not active treatment, who decides where I live, or the money, would this fall to my 18yo son if I do nothing?

I’ve not got long before this procedure and with a high risk of stroke, I’m being advised to consider POA. I don’t know how. But I don’t want to do nothing and leave my lad who is only just 18 to shoulder this alone.

For reference, I’m a single mum. My two brothers both have serious mental illness and I help care for one. My Mum is end of life. I have two sons, 18 & nearly 16. My 18yo is very level headed but is... 18. My ex (their Dad) is an alcoholic so not very confident of his decision making altho I trust him to act in my best interests with this stuff? I dunno. Just urgh help me think this through please?
 
Right, this is just Google stuff

Looks like there's two lasting powers of attorney, one for financial "stuff" and one for health and "stuff"

Power of attorney - Lasting, enduring and ordinary | Age UK

An ordinary power of attorney allows one or more person, known as your attorney, to make financial decisions on your behalf. Find out more at Age UK.
www.ageuk.org.uk www.ageuk.org.uk

They appear to cost £82 for EACH ONE

The attorney needs to be 18+ years old

www.gov.uk

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney

How to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA): starting an application online, choosing an attorney, certifying a copy, changing an LPA.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

I'm afraid that this sounds, from what you've written, like it's going to fall to your 18yo - tough break, but he'll do fine
 
I know that you can select whoever you want for your next of kin.
It doesn't have to be "kin" in ye olde worlde sense of a blood relation or a spouse. My man asked if I would be his next of kin for when he went in for surgery and we're not married. I had to sign a form in his presence, at the hospital, witnessed by some sort of hospital official person, agreeing to this.

No mention was made of power of attorney at that time. Talking about it since, we both presumed that NOK = POA.
Shows what we know.

Best of luck
 
Edie said:
. . .I don’t think I want it to be my lad, would prefer it to be my best mate or my man. Is this possible?
Click to expand...
Sorry, just read this . . . as per my first post, second link (the gov.uk one) anyone can be your PoA as long as they're over 18 years of age
 
Afaik LPA can be whoever you want over 18, but they will need to be legally appointed otherwise it'll fall to your eldest. Next of kin will be a form at the hospital (quite a few records may have your ex from when he was, so worth filling in), so who you want contacted initially. They can be the same person.

Have a chat to both bezzer and man, would they do it, can they do it, do you want/trust them to. x
 
Edie NoK and POA are slightly different ...

Your eldest would be NoK, unless you declare someone else [I'm assuming you & your ex are fully divorced].

I would also suggest you discuss your wishes with NoK (and possibly write them down, if you have some strong opinions).
 
High Voltage said:
Right, this is just Google stuff

Looks like there's two lasting powers of attorney, one for financial "stuff" and one for health and "stuff"

Power of attorney - Lasting, enduring and ordinary | Age UK

An ordinary power of attorney allows one or more person, known as your attorney, to make financial decisions on your behalf. Find out more at Age UK.
www.ageuk.org.uk www.ageuk.org.uk

They appear to cost £82 for EACH ONE

The attorney needs to be 18+ years old

www.gov.uk

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney

How to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA): starting an application online, choosing an attorney, certifying a copy, changing an LPA.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

I'm afraid that this sounds, from what you've written, like it's going to fall to your 18yo - tough break, but he'll do fine
Click to expand...
They don't need to cost that much. they are very simple to fill out, as long as you get all the signatures done in the right order! You do need to give it to a solicitor for formal agreement, but a lot will do it for less than the full £82 each.
 
My siblings and I have Power of Attorney for my mum ready for the day when her dementia gets too much. It isn't complicated but it is very time consuming. You can download the form off the web which you need to read carefully since it has to be filled in a certain order.
My mum had to sign it in front of witnesses, the attorney (us four) then had to sign it in front of witnesses. Then her doctor signed it for which he charged us £150, then we filed it which cost £82 and took weeks to process.
I did ask the solicitor who holds my parents wills and they quoted £hundreds (though we wouldn't need the doctors signature) which is why we decided to do it ourselves.
 
I Just signed LPAs for both parents it’s a seemingly lengthy process with solicitors and backwards and forwards postal stuff and signing and returning stuff

NOK can be anyone it’s a point of contact not a legal position as far as I’m aware but POA/LOA is a legal process

I think you’ll need to get cracking in the admin

good luck with your brain.

eta

first google comes up with speedy LPA services

Lasting power of Attorney with Kwil

A Lasting Power of Attorney is a legal document that allows you to appoint people who you trust to make decisions on your behalf if you are no longer able to, or no longer wish to. These decisions can relate to your financial affairs or your health and welfare.
lpa.kwil.co.uk
 
What will make and break your kid is the support network he has around him. It is likely that there is at least one person in your/his extended family or immediate social circle who will try and stick their oar in, seeing he's young and vulnerable and put pressure on him to do what they want, or do something else naff. If it were me I'd get your kid to do it and then tell the other key people that their job is to protect your child from other people trying to cause him grief. Good luck and I hope it goes well x
 
I was told that the important things with next of kin were that you trusted them to be able to make appropriate decisions, they were willing to do it, and they live close by enough to be at the hospital straight away. I'm next of kin for one of my friends, listed on her passport, at work and so on. So your man wouldn't really be a good person to put down because of the distance.

That link about POA makes it sound too much for a teenager, TBH. Especially if he might end up disagreeing with his brother. (And definitely too much for a severe alcoholic like your ex). Would your best friend do it?
 
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When I was 18 I signed for LPOA for both my mum and step dad.

Yes it's a big thing and a big responsibility but on the other hand who else is gonna do it?

I think if you ask your best mate and your fella to look out for your lad and make sure he's ok and supported should the worst happen that's all you can do.
 
Your NOK for hospital purposes, phone calls etc can be whoever you want it to be. Who it is legally in terms of money and so on is entirely separate.

If you lost capacity to make decisions, unless you arrange for someone to make those decisions for you by signing a formal advanced directive, best interest decisions would be made by two consultants involved in your care. Your family would be kept in the loop but wouldn't have the burden of making those choices. Touch wood and please god none of it will be necessary xx
 
Last edited:
Edie, do you have a will?

My FiL died during a heart op and didn't have a will, his family had all sorts of problems with his estate.

Perhaps assigning lasting power of attorney is enough, I don't know.
 
Lasting power of attorney comes in two flavours, financial and health. The latter is long and complicated to arrange. Having financial PoA doesn't allow you to make best interest decisions. Be clear on what you've got because it often trips people up when they think it should come into play and can be very upsetting.
 
Given you haven't got time to set up the LPA (and it is a big responsibility for your boy to have anyway), I would write an email with everything you can think of that you want to happen and send it to your bezzer and your man and tell your kids that it's there.

Would the consultants pay any mind to that Rebelda?
 
trashpony said:
Given you haven't got time to set up the LPA (and it is a big responsibility for your boy to have anyway), I would write an email with everything you can think of that you want to happen and send it to your bezzer and your man and tell your kids that it's there.

Would the consultants pay any mind to that Rebelda?
Click to expand...
It would (should...) be considered certainly but would have no legal binding. So if the consultants disagreed that they were in best interest they could overrule. Also if on the spot decisions had to be made quickly it might not be feasibly there in time. That sounds very blunt, worst case scenario stuff. Ideally the whole team would be involved in making sure all care is holistic and centred around the person :)

Advanced decisions can be made legal, they are decisions you make about your own care just in case and can't be overruled by anyone except yourself. Not even by someone with LPA for health AFAIK.
 
Edie said:
Hey. As you might know I need to have this bastard neurosurgery in just over two weeks for a brain aneurysm.

I’ve just had the Neurovascular Nurse Specialist call me up to ask who my next of kin is. I don’t know. Here are my questions if any of you can help I’d really appreciate it...

1. Is NOK on hospital forms whoever you want it to be, or does it need to be a family member? I’m guessing this is who they call if I have a stroke or die or whatever. I don’t think I want it to be my lad, would prefer it to be my best mate or my man. Is this possible?

2. If the worst happens and I lose capacity... I currently don’t have Power of Attorney for health or wealth. Who would it fall to to make the decisions? I know the medical team would hold the ultimate decision in acute care, but for shit like moving to best supportive care and not active treatment, who decides where I live, or the money, would this fall to my 18yo son if I do nothing?

I’ve not got long before this procedure and with a high risk of stroke, I’m being advised to consider POA. I don’t know how. But I don’t want to do nothing and leave my lad who is only just 18 to shoulder this alone.

For reference, I’m a single mum. My two brothers both have serious mental illness and I help care for one. My Mum is end of life. I have two sons, 18 & nearly 16. My 18yo is very level headed but is... 18. My ex (their Dad) is an alcoholic so not very confident of his decision making altho I trust him to act in my best interests with this stuff? I dunno. Just urgh help me think this through please?
Click to expand...
Oh Dear Edie not been on here, sorry to hear you need neurosurgery for a brain aneurysm.
I am sorry I cannot answer your next-of-kin question.
You have a lot to deal with.
All I can say is I do hope you get the help you need and I hope the surgery and recovery go well.
 
Thanks everyone. It doesn’t sound like I have enough time to organise POA for health, which I think I’m relieved about. I’ll just trust the doctors. I might look into it for finances if it can be done quick and from my house cos I gotta isolate now. (And yes weltweit I’ve done a will in the last few weeks thanks).

My family such as it is would support my lad best they could. But it’s all a bit dysfunctional and I’m usually in the middle holding shit together, although my eldest nowadays is often the voice of reason 😏

For NoK on the hospital form I think I’ll put my man cos he’ll be over from the US. If something really shit happens I don’t want my lad rung out the blue, I’d want him told in a supportive way, both my lads.

Anyway hopefully all not needed and I’ll continue to have the luck of the devil and an angel on my shoulder like ice-is-forming says ;) 😇
 
I have no useful advice re the legal practicalities but my mum left me a message through a third person, which was 'Don't rush'.
In true mum style, it was suitably fucking infuriating to begin with but has also felt endlessly right since, to have those words she chose to pass on.
I think icey is quite right in this being yet another storm you will get through but it is such a testament to your parenting that you are so focused on thinking this through - and no surprise there, either xxx
 
Edie said:
My family such as it is would support my lad best they could. But it’s all a bit dysfunctional and I’m usually in the middle holding shit together, although my eldest nowadays is often the voice of reason 😏
Click to expand...
Edie it goes without saying, very best wishes to you, hope it all goes well. This sounds like your eldest has his head screwed on. It's amazing how mature and how well people cope at a time like this.
 
I don't know any more about NOK/POA than what people have already said, but just want to wish you all the very best with the op and hope it all goes well.
 
belboid said:
They don't need to cost that much. they are very simple to fill out, as long as you get all the signatures done in the right order! You do need to give it to a solicitor for formal agreement, but a lot will do it for less than the full £82 each.
Click to expand...
I don't recall needing a solicitor. Though a family friend who was a social worker witnessed and tested my Mum's mental capacity to ensure she wasn't being screwed and signed off on it. But it still cost around £150 (odd the top of my head) from the Public Guardian people, and took a month or so to come back. Printing all the pages cost nearly a tenner.
 
(((Edie )))

A few months ago we went through the POA and POW for the f-i-l. The information being given here perfectly matches our experience. I, therefore, have nothing to add except to wish you all the best of luck.
 
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