Large Hadron Collider

[Poi E]

Anyway, Einstein continues with his large thoughts. His General Theory describes the motion of a body under acceleration, and this is probably the greatest intellectual leap that any single human has ever done. The General Theory has been tested to way and back, and is rock hard.

The other great theory of the 20th century is, of course, the Quantum Theory of matter - again the fundamentals have been tested to an insane degree, but it still seems a bit like madness. If it wasn't for the fact that everyones electrical gear works on those principles, I wouldn't believe it.

Right. So let's have a look at one of the bodies that is analysing output from the from the US side. The Brookhaven National Laboratory, engaged in the past in large amounts of contract work to the US nuclear weapons program via the US Department of Energy. Fermilab has also been involved in analysis of the effect of nuclear fallout in the past.

Are you really so startlingly naive? Do you seriously think that this sort of research will not have spin-offs for the military?

 

[xenon]

That's a sensible suggestion. I'll consider it.

There's masses of money spent on research. That's the point that the poster was making. Also, providing food and water to the worlds population is not a massive economic problem (in global terms) once you've established the political will. Losing scientific progress (and my computer ) would be a fair sacrifice in reality.

With out scientific progress, how do you propose to find energy sources for purifying water. Growing and distributing food in a changing climate. Educating peple, so they have a little more too look forward to than subsistance and charity.

If you're calling for greater political will and financial support, at the expense of research, you're a fool.

 

[xenon]

Oh there is no doubt that significant advances in physics could well be used for weapons development.

imho

Stopfusion research then because potentially it could be used destructively.
Stop all genetic research.
Forget nano technology.
Shut down the internet.
Switch the lights off.
Throw out your knives.

 

[weltweit]

Stopfusion research then because potentially it could be used destructively.
Stop all genetic research.
Forget nano technology.
Shut down the internet.
Switch the lights off.
Throw out your knives.

That's not what I was implying at all.

Weapons development taking account of every advance available is a given of human kind. Ever since the flint spear head we have been advancing towards the F16 of today and the god knows what of tommorrow.

Its just inevitable.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That's not what I was implying at all.

Weapons development taking account of every advance available is a given of human kind. Ever since the flint spear head we have been advancing towards the F16 of today and the god knows what of tommorrow.

Its just inevitable.

The upside is the number of civilian advances that were spin offs from weapons research.

 

[snadge]

The upside is the number of civilian advances that were spin offs from weapons research.

exactly, beam me up Scotty.

 

[MikeMcc]

shitloads of weapon potential as well as loads of exotic energy spinoffs.

Not really, all research carried out is essentially 'open source' (borrowing the term from it's computing usage). It's openly available to all users. It's part of the terms of the funding of the place. Overwhelmingly (especially with the LHC) it will be universities that will be looking at the data, especially since (AFAIA) there's no direct materials science going on, unlike at facilities such as ISIS, Diamond Light Source, ESRF, etc.

To taint all research carried out at the national labs in the US because they carry out nuclear weapons research is ridiculous. They are massive organisations. It's like looking at campuses (?sp) like Harwell and linking the nuclear research with whats going on nowadays. It's pointless, different organisations doing different research just happens to be located in the same area.

 

[alsoknownas]

With out scientific progress, how do you propose to find energy sources for purifying water. Growing and distributing food in a changing climate. Educating peple, so they have a little more too look forward to than subsistance and charity.

If you're calling for greater political will and financial support, at the expense of research, you're a fool.

The point is - there is so much we can achieve, in terms of eradicating poverty, with the science we have at hand today. I'm all for examining quarks (or whatever) but lets establish access to agriculture, medicine, water, etc. first.
Ideally let's do both.
It's not a foolish notion at all, although I admit it's so far removed from the political reality that it will never be acted upon.

 

[Cid]

The point is - there is so much we can achieve, in terms of eradicating poverty, with the science we have at hand today. I'm all for examining quarks (or whatever) but lets establish access to agriculture, medicine, water, etc. first.
Ideally let's do both.
It's not a foolish notion at all, although I admit it's so far removed from the political reality that it will never be acted upon.

Well yes, both would be nice to see... But it's not this that is causing the problems in the third world and the two could easily progress side by side. And I think you are being overoptimistic about what we have to hand now, the current energy and food crises should be a stark enough reminder of that.

 

[alsoknownas]

This debate (and I have to admit - I'm slightly playing devils advocate - I recognise full well that scientific research is often a valuable asset to humankind) reminds me of the contemporary attitude to the Apollo space missions, which many saw as an unnecesary extravigance.

"Rockets - moon shots,
Spend it on... the have-nots,"
Marvin Gaye, Inner City Blues

 

[MikeMcc]

Injection testing is well underway. First beam is on target for the 10th sept.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/08/21/scilhc121.xml

 

[longdog]

Is the LHC open to the public only have some hadrons I'd like colliding.

Will they be OK sent by post in a Jiffy Bag or should I use UPS?

 

[kyser_soze]

Check out the lhc website for details on visits, altho I doubt you'll be allowed down once the main accelerator is running...

 

[MikeMcc]

Check out the lhc website for details on visits, altho I doubt you'll be allowed down once the main accelerator is running...

Only if you fancy being cremated by the synchrotron radiation emitted!

Apparently they are doing a live webcast from 8:30 on the 10th Sept for 1st beam. Radio 4 are spending some time covering it as well.

 

[xenon]

Is that something to do with R4's Big Bang day? Guess so. Only half caught the trailer.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Radio 4's Big Bang Day.

Hear the end of the world, live!

 

[bluestreak]

Is the LHC open to the public only have some hadrons I'd like colliding.

Will they be OK sent by post in a Jiffy Bag or should I use UPS?

I think you may be confused, you clearly have SMALL hadrons, whereas this is a LARGE hadron collider. If you had large hadrons you'd know that they need to be transported in a Minivan of some sort, perhaps even a transit if the hadron has pupesced.

 

[longdog]

The guy in Hadrons 'R' Us told me they were definitely collider compatible large hadrons

 

[bluestreak]

I've got a Small Hadron Collider knocking about somewhere if you want a go. It won't destroy the universe, but will leave some fantastic burn holes in the sofa.

 

[kyser_soze]

Worth pointing out that the September 'launch' is only a 10% power beam to test the magnet alignment, not a full on 5TeV, drain the Fernch national grid...they aren't even doing any science with this...

 

[longdog]

I've got a Small Hadron Collider knocking about somewhere if you want a go. It won't destroy the universe, but will leave some fantastic burn holes in the sofa.

Oh yeah, cheers.

I'll get the hadrons out of the freezer to defrost

 

[MikeMcc]

Worth pointing out that the September 'launch' is only a 10% power beam to test the magnet alignment, not a full on 5TeV, drain the Fernch national grid...they aren't even doing any science with this...

Don't expect miracles either, it may take them some time to get the steering right for the first beam to travel right round. The injection tests 'only' covered a 2km stretch!

 

[Cid]

There's an 'In our Time' on Higgs-Boson I think... will be in their archive. I'll dig it out.

Here.

One weekend in 1964 the Scottish scientist Peter Higgs was walking in the Cairngorm Mountains. On his return to his laboratory in Edinburgh the following Monday, he declared to his colleagues that he had just experienced his 'one big idea' and now had an answer to the mystery of how matter in the universe got its mass. That big idea took many years of refining, but it has now generated so much international interest and has such an important place in physics that well over one billion pounds is being spent in the hope that he was right. It's the biggest science project on Earth; the quest to find the 'Higgs Boson', a fundamental constituent of nature that - if it does exist - has such a central role in defining the universe that it's also known as the God Particle.

What is the Higgs Boson? Why is it so important to scientists and how are they planning to find it?

Contributors

Jim Al-Khalili, Senior Lecturer in Physics at the University of Surrey

David Wark, Professor of Experimental Physics at Imperial College London and the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory

Professor Roger Cashmore, former Research Director at CERN and now Principal of Brasenose College, Oxford

Gives a good grounding, it's from 2004 but the fundamental work behind the LHC was done long before that anyway.

 

[DotCommunist]

I take it no-ones chucked a penny in for the lulz yet.

Is the beast up to speed yet? I bet Hawking is watching the data like a......bird of prey

 

[kyser_soze]

Don't expect miracles either, it may take them some time to get the steering right for the first beam to travel right round. The injection tests 'only' covered a 2km stretch!

Yeah, they just playing with the synchrotron at the moment.

The collider is currently undergoing commissioning while being cooled down to its final operating temperature of approximately 1.9 K (−271.25 °C). Initial particle beam injections were successfully carried out between 8-11th August 2008,[2][3] the first attempt to circulate a beam through the entire LHC is scheduled for September 10, 2008,[4] and the first high-energy collisions are planned to take place after the LHC is officially unveiled, on October 21, 2008.[5]

So no 7(not 5)TeV til October...

Prior to being injected into the main accelerator, the particles are prepared by a series of systems that successively increase their energy. The first system is the linear accelerator Linac 2 generating 50 MeV protons, which feeds the Proton Synchrotron Booster (PSB). There the protons are accelerated to 1.4 GeV and injected into the Proton Synchrotron (PS), where they are accelerated to 26 GeV. Finally the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) is used to increase their energy to 450 GeV before they are at last injected into the main ring, where proton bunches are accumulated, accelerated to their peak 7 TeV energy, and finally stored for many hours while collisions occur at the four intersection points.

 

[Do predele]

CERN (the European Organisation for Nuclear Research) have got the ok to switch on their Large Hadron Collider next week. The boffins that be have finally decided the chance of it creating a black hole is so negligible it's worth the risk. However as this is totally unknown territory there are no guarantees.

If they are indeed wrong, we all have nine days to live. What are you going to do with yours ?

I'm commited to over time at work which I deeply regret as the Earth won't even exist come pay day. What a bummer.

 

[bluestreak]

I'm going on holiday on saturday, so at least a week of my final days will be spent relaxing in leafy pleasure with my missus. Which is nice.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I want to change my name to Hadron Collider.

Who is hoping that secretly one of the scientists will get caught in the experiement and become Dr Manhattan, ushering in a dark age of superheroes. I've already planned to become an overweight batman wannabe. Anyone want to audition for the role of Jupiter Girl?

 

[Badgers]

Looking forward to the Radio 4 Big Bang Day

 

[Augie March]

Cam't be arsed to read the entire thread to check if anyone's posted this yet. But if they have, fuck it, here it is again: