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Question Laptops and "all day" battery life

Throbbing Angel

Throbbing Angel

Well-Known Member
I've had it up to here (motions) with fkn Windows laptops and their shitty battery life - I have posted about it far too often over the last 18 years or so since I first went laptop.

I've recently started a Cybersecurity course that needs me to run multiple virtual machines which means that my main laptop (an M1 MacBook Air from 2020) was unsuitable as they can't do virtualisation on the M range of chips (but the older Macbooks running on intel can).

After some research, I ended up buying a ThinkPad T14 as mentioned here. £1300. The specs will do what I need and it has a skipload of extra RAM in it.
The machine is advertised as having all day battery life and cites ~14 hours on various Lenovo pages.

I've been using it for nearly 2 days and the battery life is nothing like that - I'm looking at something like 4 hours maximum.
And I'm not doing anything massively intense yet. I have a couple of browsers running and Excel. My VPN going on in the background, and that's about it, plus whatever else bullshit is running in the background on a new Lenovo running Win11 Pro. (Lenovo Commercial Vantage!?)

To be frank I'm fucking sick of it. Is this as good as it gets with Windows?
Or is it ThinkPads that are the issue?
I bought a new but older model Thinkpad mid 2021 ~£900 and that ran like shit too - thankfully I returned it and got my money back under distance selling regs. See the thread here if you're so inclined. I was getting 2ish hours on a brand new, pretty modern and expensive Win10 ThinkPad which is fucking atrocious imho.

This said, when the first lockdown started I bought two quite average ThinkPads from a local refurb place for myself and lil'Angel to study/work at home - £200 each, had Win10home and SSD's added and they ran just fine and gave over 5 hours on a full charge - which I found acceptable for a used, ex-corporate, refurbed machine that cost £200.

So what's the problem? Thinkpads? Bullshit marketing citing unattainable battery life/usage patterns as 'normal'?


My MacBook Air was bought after returning the ThinkPad I returned to eBay above. It is 27 months old now and was used daily for general fucking about, browsing, writing etc. Not work. Every day for 27 months for anywhere between 2 and 8 hours and it still gives me 15 hours at least. I don't worry about charging it. Ever.
No fans (unlike this fucking thing) no real heat build-up (unlike this fkn thing) and loads of hours of use. It has its downsides, every machine does, but I can do 99.5% of everything I need to do on the MacBook - until I started this course, for which it is unsuitable.

Bit of a rant I know but I suppose I am asking, should I return this ThinkPad too? :rolleyes: :mad: Will the battery life get better? These things are supposed to learn and adjust these days in the modern world. Aren't they?


For reference...
1692460877416.png
 
farmerbarleymow said:
I have no idea what the battery life on the Surface I've got is as its always plugged in.
Click to expand...

Aye - this is the case with my work Windows laptop, a Dell 5400 8th gen processor iirc, running a chip that ends in U for ultra-low-power consumption I believe. In the office, it is always docked and therefore drawing power. Occasionally move to a meeting room for an hour, maybe three, maximum.
 
This is why I switched to Chromebooks where the battery life is incredible.

One thing: the battery life can be really shit when you first get a machine as it'll be downloading patches and updates. But if it's as bad as you say, I'd give Lenovo a call - I always had good service from then in the past.
 
Throbbing Angel said:
Aye - this is the case with my work Windows laptop, a Dell 5400 8th gen processor iirc, running a chip that ends in U for ultra-low-power consumption I believe. In the office, it is always docked and therefore drawing power. Occasionally move to a meeting room for an hour, maybe three, maximum.
Click to expand...
The Surface laptops we have at work seem to last a good while on battery though - some colleagues don't have them plugged in when they work at home and they seem to last all day more or less. I've just always kept laptops hooked up for some reason as its easy to do.
 
There's the whole ARM vs X86 thing as well rather then just WINDOWS. ARM is way more power efficient which is one reason Apple switched. It's much easier for them to do that though as their users are used to being told fuck you, your old stuff won't work anymore. Microsoft needs to maintain compatability. They've had a shot at Windows on ARM, but it's not been much of a success, mostly because people expect a Windows PC to run all their software.
 
editor said:
This is why I switched to Chromebooks where the battery life is incredible.

One thing: the battery life can be really shit when you first get a machine as it'll be downloading patches and updates. But if it's as bad as you say, I'd give Lenovo a call - I always had good service from then in the past.
Click to expand...

Yes. Some years ago when I needed a laptop, but not enough to spend decent money on, it's why I went Chromebook, because cheap Windows laptops are normally shit. I mean my work Dell is great, but it's not something I'd spend my own money on.
 
editor said:
This is why I switched to Chromebooks where the battery life is incredible.

One thing: the battery life can be really shit when you first get a machine as it'll be downloading patches and updates. But if it's as bad as you say, I'd give Lenovo a call - I always had good service from then in the past.
Click to expand...

For most everyday stuff, yes, I agree, Chromebooks can fill the gap quite adequately. I've had 3 or 4 and moved back to Windows when the first lockdown hit and then had a go at using a Mac as I have an iPad, had a voucher for Amazon, there was £100 off the Macbook and I could pay over 5 months interest-free, so I thought Why not?

I'm going to give it a few days and see if it settles down. As you say, there were updates going on as soon as I switched it on and it reckons there are 40+ app updates that need doing. It was bought for the express purpose of doing a course and passing 2 exams whilst retraining. If I get those thigs out of the way and get a new/different job out of it, it'll have been money well spent imho.

Deep. Cleansing. Breath.
 
UnderOpenSky said:
There's the whole ARM vs X86 thing as well rather then just WINDOWS. ARM is way more power efficient which is one reason Apple switched. It's much easier for them to do that though as their users are used to being told fuck you, your old stuff won't work anymore. Microsoft needs to maintain compatability. They've had a shot at Windows on ARM, but it's not been much of a success, mostly because people expect a Windows PC to run all their software.
Click to expand...

I did wonder about getting the AMD version of this laptop as it is more power efficient, mainly because it uses a chip that specifically does that job. And it was quite a few hundred quid cheaper. The AMD has fewer cores and is less useful for the cybersec course - some stated that their machines with similar chipsets were struggling to run all the VMs needed to do the course/exam. Which is why I went for the i7 with a P chip as opposed to a U or H at the end - more cores etc blah.
 
Throbbing Angel said:
I did wonder about getting the AMD version of this laptop as it is more power efficient, mainly because it uses a chip that specifically does that job. And it was quite a few hundred quid cheaper. The AMD has fewer cores and is less useful for the cybersec course - some stated that their machines with similar chipsets were struggling to run all the VMs needed to do the course/exam. Which is why I went for the i7 with a P chip as opposed to a U or H at the end - more cores etc blah.
Click to expand...

AMD is still X86 though. I'd have no problems buying one, but weirdly when I built my PC Intel was better at the range I was looking at, but I'm not brand loyal.

When I looked at laptops for you though it seems like all the high end ones which would be equivalent to what you've bought were mostly gaming machines. Intel is strong in the corporate sector.
 
UnderOpenSky said:
AMD is still X86 though. I'd have no problems buying one, but weirdly when I built my PC Intel was better at the range I was looking at, but I'm not brand loyal.

When I looked at laptops for you though it seems like all the high end ones which would be equivalent to what you've bought were mostly gaming machines. Intel is strong in the corporate sector.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I noticed the gaming machines were there in number too. It might have been you that said it on the other thread, I don't need the graphics card, though, so why pay for it!?

What swung it for me was comparing the chips for this laptop on versus.com - the performance of the i7 over the AMD was much better - hence the price diff I suppose.
 
Throbbing Angel said:
Yeah - I noticed the gaming machines were there in number too. It might have been you that said it on the other thread, I don't need the graphics card, though, so why pay for it!?

What swung it for me was comparing the chips for this laptop on versus.com - the performance of the i7 over the AMD was much better - hence the price diff I suppose.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was me. :)

I wouldn't trust verus.com, I'd want to see proper benchmarks (which was actually really hard for your use case). However you have a stonking CPU, hopefully you find a way to work with the battery.

Maybe when your finished the course you can sell it for a decent amount and but a true beast with a Xeon in and just remote to it from a potato chromebook :D
 
UnderOpenSky said:
Yeah that was me. :)

I wouldn't trust verus.com, I'd want to see proper benchmarks (which was actually really hard for your use case). However you have a stonking CPU, hopefully you find a way to work with the battery.

Maybe when your finished the course you can sell it for a decent amount and but a true beast with a Xeon in and just remote to it from a potato chromebook :D
Click to expand...
Googles SSH tools for chromebooks (is that a thing - eff me it is!)

I was wondering whether to sell the Macbook or not. Undecided at the mo' due to battery nonsense.

I'm currently working with the battery by moving it from room to room when it needs charged.
If I sit at the dining table I can use ethernet and have it charging at the same time - but - neck pain.
When battery full, move to armchair with lapdesk thing - no neck pain.

It is doable. Have decided to stop moaning and see if it improves over the coming days.

Currently effing about installing different VMs.
 
Horses for courses. I don’t think any windows machine will be able to match the efficiency and power optimisation that Apple can create by having such a stranglehold over the hardware and OS. But there’s software out there that’s windows only/wouldn’t work with the walled garden approach, so you’re stuck.
 
Throbbing Angel said:
Googles SSH tools for chromebooks (is that a thing - eff me it is!)

I was wondering whether to sell the Macbook or not. Undecided at the mo' due to battery nonsense.

I'm currently working with the battery by moving it from room to room when it needs charged.
If I sit at the dining table I can use ethernet and have it charging at the same time - but - neck pain.
When battery full, move to armchair with lapdesk thing - no neck pain.

It is doable. Have decided to stop moaning and see if it improves over the coming days.

Currently effing about installing different VMs.
Click to expand...

I mean as a very simple learning exercise I'd learn how to use RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol) from your Mac to the Lenovo. Can also do it from a Chromebook. SSH is generally for cmd line stuff, RDP your literally using the desktop on the other device.
 
UnderOpenSky said:
There's the whole ARM vs X86 thing as well rather then just WINDOWS. ARM is way more power efficient which is one reason Apple switched. It's much easier for them to do that though as their users are used to being told fuck you, your old stuff won't work anymore. Microsoft needs to maintain compatability. They've had a shot at Windows on ARM, but it's not been much of a success, mostly because people expect a Windows PC to run all their software.
Click to expand...
as Sophie wilson recalls there was a test of an early ARM chip for the archimedes where part way through they realised they hadn't actually plugged the motherboard power supply in , but it was working fine from the power it drew through the 'signal' connections

sorry i mis remembered there wasa fault with the power supply ARM creators Sophie Wilson and Steve Furber • The Register
 
It's not Windows itself, it's a design consideration.
x86 processors are designed for peak performance first and foremost, with power efficiency as a consideration.
Apple's processors are designed for peak power efficiency, and manage to get decent performance after the fact.

Consider that that M2 Ultra is 2 process nodes ahead of Intel's best and yet the i9-13900 easily bests it. It just takes over 2x the power to do so.
AMD is actually a bit better in the laptop stakes right now because of the whole 5nm vs 7nm process thing. Intel can keep up and even beat them in performance, but they burn a lot more power to get there.
Intel does make CPUs that can run all day, but they're just not the powerful ones.

As a tip - if you click on the battery in Windows you can set it to be battery friendly over all other considerations. Performance suffers a bit, but you do get quite a bit more life out of the battery for it.
 
update: I have had this laptop for approximately a fortnight now and the battery life isn't really a concern for me as I am mainly using it at home or in a library at present so there are always plenty of plug sockets available.

I was advised to not worry and have ceased to do so.

This said the battery reporting is telling me different things on different days depending upon the type of usage.
I had a figure of 6 hours and about 30 minutes for 90% earlier today when I started using the machine around 12.30 p.m.
I'm still using it and have been doing so since then.
Had a figure of 2h 38m at 28% not so long ago.
Have been mainly reading and listening to audio files with the occasional video thrown in as part of this course I'm doing.

So it's up and down.
 
UnderOpenSky said:
Is it USB C? You can get hefty power banks for laptops if situation changes and you need to extend how long you can be more the move for.
Click to expand...
It is, aye. farmerbarleymow linked to a few upthread - I like the look of the Anker one - but as I said...

the battery life isn't really a concern for me as I am mainly using it at home or in a library at present so there are always plenty of plug sockets available
Click to expand...

but if circs change I will look at getting one of these I reckon
 
Throbbing Angel said:
I'm putting these numbers in here for my own benefit - no responses needed

89%=5h 29m
Click to expand...
I'm going to respond, whatever you say!

Have you checked the power profile? Can you reduce brightness and/or reduce the time before the laptop goes to sleep? 6 hours doesn't sound great on a new laptop.

You may also be able to get an extended battery. It might take more space at the back of the machine but might be worth it.
 
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