Is John Lydon a twat?

[Smokeandsteam]

Love their music, Morrissey's stuff with The Smiths and his first solo effort and PIL up until (and including) Album.

But both seem very bitter and out of kilter these days.

Yes, there seems to be a tipping point where recalcitrance just sounds sour.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes, there seems to be a tipping point where recalcitrance just sounds sour.

For me it was when Lydon and mates allegedly used racist slurs against Kele Okereke, 10 years or so ago.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

For me it was when Lydon and mates allegedly used racist slurs against Kele Okereke, 10 years or so ago.

Lydon emphatically denied that though pointing out his own adopted kids were black didn't he?

 

[campanula]

Lydon is just an annoying manchild...but Morrissey - well, words fail me.True, I despised him from the very beginning of his long, tedious, self-important slide into senility...despite usually enjoying introspective meanderings. However, bucolic 'Englishness' has always been claimed (for me) by the Kinks so my opinions can be dismissed, I guess.

 

[krtek a houby]

Lydon emphatically denied that though pointing out his own adopted kids were black didn't he?

Don't recall that. But tbh, racism is irrational. I've argued with so many people when they say America doesn't have a racism problem because... Obama

It's always a shame when people you admire become bigots. Or maybe it was there all along and the mask just slips, eventually.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Don't recall that. But tbh, racism is irrational. I've argued with so many people when they say America doesn't have a racism problem because... Obama

It's always a shame when people you admire become bigots. Or maybe it was there all along and the mask just slips, eventually.

John Lydon discusses Ghandi, racism, X Factor, life and those butter adverts - Loud And Quiet

 

[Pickman's model]

John Lydon discusses Ghandi, racism, X Factor, life and those butter adverts - Loud And Quiet

soz what's the point you're trying to make with that? what do you want people to take from it?

 

[butchersapron]

soz what's the point you're trying to make with that? what do you want people to take from it?

Not sure if you have krtek on ignore, if so, he's been claiming that Kele Okereke's claims from 2008 are both factual and aimed at Lydon personally - and saying he doesn't 'recall' lyndon's denial. S&S was replying directly to that. I can see it would look a bit odd otherwise.

 

[krtek a houby]

John Lydon discusses Ghandi, racism, X Factor, life and those butter adverts - Loud And Quiet

Interesting, that. Thanks.

I wonder why Kele would have made up the incident. As for Gandhi, his copybook is blotched with racism, sadly.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure if you have krtek on ignore, if so, he's been claiming that Kele Okereke's claims from 2008 are both factual and aimed at Lydon personally - and saying he doesn't 'recall' lyndon's denial. S&S was replying directly to that. I can see it would look a bit odd otherwise.

ah! i have that man on forced ignore.

 

[butchersapron]

ah! i have that man on forced ignore.

You lucky thing!

 

[Pickman's model]

You lucky thing!

i had to work hard to get it, believe me!

 

[Kaka Tim]

I would point out that in respect of Brexit the position of both is representative of the position of most of their class and generation.
.[/QUOTE]

Dunno about that - More like typical gammony bollocks spouted by privlliaged ex-pats (see also michael caine)
And they both never fitted into their working class roots- being misfit dropouts - and left them behind at the earliest opportunity.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dunno about that - More like typical gammony bollocks spouted by privlliaged ex-pats (see also michael caine)
And they both never fitted into their working class roots- being misfit dropouts - and left them behind at the earliest opportunity.

you don't like misfits or dropouts much i note

never had you down as a conformist before: i see i was wrong

 

[killer b]

You are definitely onto something with your point about maturity. I think Morrissey turned 60 this year, Lydon must be older still and yet their career trajectories and the industry they inhabit mean they have to continue to act 'rebellious'. It's quite disturbing to see late middle aged men forced/feel required to act out in this manner and it demeans their talent and history.

Does it have to be this complex? I can introduce you to any number of men of a similar age who trot out similar bollocks, but who've never been rock stars at a young age. Pub bore controversialists. The world is teeming with them.

 

[krtek a houby]

You lucky thing!

I've previously asked Mods to put us both on mutual ignore, maybe you can ask nicely, as well.

 

[Kaka Tim]

you don't like misfits or dropouts much i note

never had you down as a conformist before: i see i was wrong

really dont see how you reach that conclusion. misfits and dropouts has been my peer group since .. year dot. Pretty much a pre-condition of being any sort of half decent pop star as well.

 

[Pickman's model]

really dont see how you reach that conclusion. misfits and dropouts has been my peer group since .. year dot. Pretty much a pre-condition of being any sort of half decent pop star as well.

in the context of a not very positive post

 

[Kaka Tim]

in the context of a not very positive post

I was observing that lydon and morrisey were drop outs and didn't fit into their traditional working class backgrounds (pretty much the story of everyone of note in brit post war working class pop culture) .
That didn't make them twats - it was their latter journey to gammonhood/boring self parady that did that.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not sure if you have krtek on ignore, if so, he's been claiming that Kele Okereke's claims from 2008 are both factual and aimed at Lydon personally - and saying he doesn't 'recall' lyndon's denial. S&S was replying directly to that. I can see it would look a bit odd otherwise.

And you're being disingenuous saying I claimed his comments were factual. I said "allegedly used racist slurs". As for not recalling Lydon's denials, I can't remember every single incident in the history of the world. So smokeandsteam's link was helpful in the matter.

Now I've got that off my chest, it's time for dinner. So long!

 

[butcher]

He has turned into a fat old katie hopkins really

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Does it have to be this complex? I can introduce you to any number of men of a similar age who trot out similar bollocks, but who've never been rock stars at a young age. Pub bore controversialists. The world is teeming with them.

Yeah true, but we are talking about two different trajectories here than the knob you find in every ale house you go in.

 

[Irwin Winton]

Both working class. Both Irish. Both the most interesting, and vital, person in music of their respective decade.

You are definitely onto something with your point about maturity. I think Morrissey turned 60 this year, Lydon must be older still and yet their career trajectories and the industry they inhabit mean they have to continue to act 'rebellious'. It's quite disturbing to see late middle aged men forced/feel required to act out in this manner and it demeans their talent and history.

I would point out that in respect of Brexit the position of both is representative of the position of most of their class and generation. Similarly, Trump speaks to a similar age and class in deindustrialised America where work, class and community certainties have been washed away leaving communities clinging to nebulous national identities.

There is however no rationale or reason I can advance for the Britain First stuff. I was gutted to read about it. I've loved and defended Morrissey for years but you can only conclude that the the misanthropy has finally gone far too far and turned him into a bitter prick.

Is Morrisey either of those things?

 

[Irwin Winton]

And you're being disingenuous saying I claimed his comments were factual. I said "allegedly used racist slurs". As for not recalling Lydon's denials, I can't remember every single incident in the history of the world. So smokeandsteam's link was helpful in the matter.

Now I've got that off my chest, it's time for dinner. So long!

Apart from his contribution to the cricket threads all he ever seems to be about these days is calling people out.

Apparently im Frances Lengel [sic].

He tears people to shreds when theyre incorrect about something though, almost as if he never is himself.

 

[Irwin Winton]

Both working class. Both Irish. Both the most interesting, and vital, person in music of their respective decade.

You are definitely onto something with your point about maturity. I think Morrissey turned 60 this year, Lydon must be older still and yet their career trajectories and the industry they inhabit mean they have to continue to act 'rebellious'. It's quite disturbing to see late middle aged men forced/feel required to act out in this manner and it demeans their talent and history.

I would point out that in respect of Brexit the position of both is representative of the position of most of their class and generation. Similarly, Trump speaks to a similar age and class in deindustrialised America where work, class and community certainties have been washed away leaving communities clinging to nebulous national identities.

There is however no rationale or reason I can advance for the Britain First stuff. I was gutted to read about it. I've loved and defended Morrissey for years but you can only conclude that the the misanthropy has finally gone far too far and turned him into a bitter prick.

Sorry... ANY of those things.

 

[8ball]

Yes, there seems to be a tipping point where recalcitrance just sounds sour.

I think you can be angry without the sourness, but it's hard to pull off wearing a younger man's clothes.

 

[Irwin Winton]

I think you can be angry without the sourness, but it's hard to pull off wearing a younger man's clothes.

What are two div millionaires so angry about these days anyway ?

 

[8ball]

What are two div millionaires so angry about these days anyway ?

What have you got?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Sorry... ANY of those things.

Any of what things?

 

[seeformiles]

steve jones not entirely complimentary about him in his autobiography 'lonely boy' (which is well worth a read incidentally)

Very funny and candid book - I laughed out loud a few times. Jah Wobble (In his autobiography) broadly agrees with Steve Jones in his assessment of J.Lydon.