Indonesia travel warning

[derf]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_918.html

What bull.
The trick is to respect the locals and don't go around getting pissed in large groups while trying to shag pros.
I'm a white bloke (Muslim convert) living in a Muslim village and get nothing but good vibes from the people here. A white mate (christian) gets the same in his village.
Don't believe the shit that some say about people here. It's a great place to visit and the locals are amazing with no bad intent to anyone.

Wander over sometime and see the real Indonesia. It's a place full of good people that's a treat to visit.

 

[Yossarian]

Terrorist attacks in Indonesia could occur at any time and could be directed against any location, including those frequented by foreigners, as well as identifiably American or other Western facilities or businesses in Indonesia.

This bit is true though, isn't it?

Of course, it's equally true about London...

I spent a good few months travelling around Indonesia some years back and thought the people were great, wouldn't mind going back someday.

 

[derf]

Yes it is true but that's a small number of nutters. To avoid them just don't go to the silly places and all is well.
The people round here are great. If you happen to be in Central Java anytime let me know.

 

[Sunray]

Its been like that for years and years. Its like that to cover their arse because there is a very remote chance of kidnap and the above.

Bali has had the odd bomb, but hey so does London? Wouldn't stop me.

 

[jbob]

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_918.html

What bull.
The trick is to respect the locals and don't go around getting pissed in large groups while trying to shag pros.
I'm a white bloke (Muslim convert) living in a Muslim village and get nothing but good vibes from the people here. A white mate (christian) gets the same in his village.
Don't believe the shit that some say about people here. It's a great place to visit and the locals are amazing with no bad intent to anyone.

Wander over sometime and see the real Indonesia. It's a place full of good people that's a treat to visit.

Your stereotyping is as bad those government reports. I'm sure I don't need to point out that Indonesia is a vast and fragmented archipelago both culturally, religiously and politically. This a country of contrasts: Aceh is effectively under Sharia law and governed by a bunch of extremist thugs, compared to Bali which practices a unique form of Hinduism and is extremely laid back.

Your comment about the sex industry is misguided. In Jakarta alone there are enough native Muslim men using sex workers, both male and female, to suggest that the tourist sex industry is not the primary driving force. Compared to say Thailand or Vietnam, the sex workers often get treated appalling by some of the local people, which says more about their lack of compassion or respect than anything else.

It's true that there are some people getting pissed up, though. So what? It's not illegal and most of it is confined to very small sections of the cities and everyone knows where they are. Seen plenty of Indonesians enjoying a beer or two as well (got pissed with a few in my time, too). There's also a massive drugs scene in many parts of Indonesia ... In fact, I've been to clubs at the height of the rave scene in the UK and I haven't seen anything close to what I've seen in some of the clubs in Jakarta!

TBH, aside from Kuta (which I wish I'd never set foot in), I can't say I witnessed any particularly bad behaviour by foreigners.

I completely agree that Indonesia is an amazing place, and many of the people are indeed warm and friendly. Just don't overreact and see it through rose tinted spectacles; there are a lot of seriously unresolved issues that are coming to a head at the moment. There is a lot of internal tension that I fear is going to be resolved through ugly, destructive means (and in fact is).

 

[derf]

Your stereotyping is as bad those government reports.

I completely agree that Indonesia is an amazing place, and many of the people are indeed warm and friendly. Just don't overreact and see it through rose tinted spectacles; there are a lot of seriously unresolved issues that are coming to a head at the moment. There is a lot of internal tension that I fear is going to be resolved through ugly, destructive means (and in fact is).

I'm commenting on my own local area where there is little by way of drinking, bugger all drug use and a the place is run by Muslims that see Islam as a reason to be nice to anyone they meet.
Perhaps you are right about the stereotyping but if you pop into my area of the world you will find that it's true.
Not that interested in Bali as I don't drink anymore and I've done all the naughty shit except drugs years ago.
i'm aware of the sex trade. Don't need to go far to see that but it's hidden here and I've never been offered that service in my own area but it has happened away from home in the larger towns. It's not for me.

The idea of the OP was to suggest Indonesia as a place to visit. Lots of nice people here that would get a little well earned income from the tourists they lost as a result of a few silly people. Pity the people that felt it served Islam to kill didn't manage to work out that all they were doing is making others think Islam is about hate and damaging to income of people who really need the cash and work hard for it.

At the end of the day the area that I live in has lots to offer tourists and no real down side. Pop over and find out.

 

[rachamim18]

No offence Derf, I live on Mindanao and you are not being completely truthful.

Beheadings have and do occur over there, and not by kidnapping as they do here. Christain girls have had heads lopped off walking home froms chool. It is not prevalent by any means but they are not to be dismissed either.

That you have not expereinced problems is great. I am happy. Yet, problems do occurr and people travelling to such places need to be fully ware and make their own informed decisons.

Subjectively,I myself was in the airportin Jakarta 2 years ago and was surrounded by a mob of young men in yellow teeshirts, carryin nail studded boards, as police did nothing but ook on, and was questioned as to my nationality and religion. I was forced to produce my passport and luckily for me was travelling, as I usually do, on my US passport and not my Israeli. i have also walked through stret demos where madrassa students raised caine against the Us, Australia, and of course Israel.

"Don't go to the silly places.." You mean discos on Bali? What places? Yes Yossarian, it can happen anywhere and as we have seen it happens in London. Yet Indonesia is the world's most populous Islamic Nation. It is also home to JI and is neighbour to 5 Islamic Armies here on Mindanao. these groups are extreme;y active here and people should not be lulled into complacency.

I would suggest folks visit any place they wish, but to really research the situation just prior to going. govt. updates are not the most current or knowledgable things but they do offer an outline. I suggest perusing local media sources via the internet,etc.

Personally I love the nation but could not give a rat's a#$ about Bali. I love Java, wonderful hindu artifacts. Still, the political situation outside of Singapore, Brunei, and Malaysia is very poor and in flux. People need to be aware.

 

[derf]

No offence Derf, ........

Personally I love the nation but could not give a rat's a#$ about Bali. I love Java, wonderful hindu artifacts. Still, the political situation outside of Singapore, Brunei, and Malaysia is very poor and in flux. People need to be aware.

None taken

The political situation is getting better and this place is quite safe now. I can't say that I would go to Bali but it's fine in my neck of the woods. There are some silly Islamists about but the threat is zero as long as you stay away from the crowded bars.
It's an odd country where piccys of Osama are common but people here look to the west and make people from Europe and the US very welcome.

Give Central Jawa a try but come and see the real Indonesia and you will see how far wrong the travel warnings are.
The loss of the tourist trade here has hurt so many people who depended on it for their income. They don't deserve to loose out and the tourists are mssing a real treat if they avoid us here.

Perhaps I'm just lucky but I've yet to meet anyone who is anything less that good to me or any other foreign people they meet.
These guys just stop you in the street to say hello and shake your hand. I'm seriously happy about moving here.

 

[selamlar]

Meh. They say exactly the same thing about this place. Its just 'generic terror warning', innit.

I've been living here for 3 years now, and never had the slightest hint of tro...

 

[derf]

Meh. They say exactly the same thing about this place. Its just 'generic terror warning', innit.

I've been living here for 3 years now, and never had the slightest hint of tro...

Here I am sat in an internet cafe in a small town that the US thinks is dangerous. My mate is sat in the next booth and the rest of the people here are muslims. Been coming here for a while and no one has ever tried to shoot, bomb, behead us or whatever.

Hang on a mo the waiter just came over with the melon I asked for. He seems to have forgotten the melon but remembered the fucking great big knife to cut it with..........................

 

[rachamim18]

I admit that I have not been over there since the beginning of 06, but by all accounts (meaning family and friends), the situation has not changed that much. Like where I live, there are pockets of calm, but then there are real hells on earth. One needs to exercise good common sense and never take a laissez faire attitude.

Case in point, I too can claim to have never had a problem and yet they murder and kidnap foreigners here all the time. Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it will always be the same.

Flareups come and go but the key word is come.

 

[derf]

Case in point, I too can claim to have never had a problem and yet they murder and kidnap foreigners here all the time. Just because you have not had a problem does not mean it will always be the same.

Flareups come and go but the key word is come.

The locals in my village are very unlikely to ever be a problem. I'm part of the village, the locals call me mas (brother) 'derf' and I'm involved in all parts of village life. My wife's family make up about half of the village population but even if you take away all of these things the people in this area and all over central jawa look west and it's just the US policy they dislike. They have no hate for westeners at all.
If fact it's the other way round. I can't remember the time someone hasn't stopped me while i've been in any of the local towns just for a chat and to invite me to sit down and eat with them. If I do sit with the they always refuse to allow me to pay. The vast majority of people here are good people. You have to see it to believe the way they are. That's no stereotype but a fact you will find out for yourselves if you visit this area.
It is true that there are some nutters about but they are only interested in attacking places where drink and/or other bad habits take place.
All you have to do to remain safe in this area is respect the locals and don't bother boozing in public. Any traveller should respect local tradition and you need to have a drink you have a problem anyway.

 

[rachamim18]

Derf, I have nothing against Indoneisans of any extraction. I do like parts of the country. But, as an old hand in this part of the world, I can only say that the feeling you have, the one about being secure because the villagers call you terms of endearment, is a feeling that could end up costing you your life.

I do not want to sound dramatic. It is just that you should never forget who you are or where you come from. I do not know what island you are on, but on everyone save parts of Jakarta and parts of Bali a white or black face gets stared at.

I am sure that all the villages surrounding yours know about your living there, that is how it works in this part of the world. Not much to do in rural areas except gossiping. One day someone who is not related to your wife, etc. might just get the wrong idea. Thinking you are immune because of terms of endearment is what got that bloke Johnston snatched in Gaza, right?

No matter how close you feel you are, you are still a foreigner in thier eyes and sorry to say, this will not change.

I go to many parts of Indonesia quite frequently, as I live on an island connected to it by ferry. Admittedly I rarely head out of Jakarta these days, I cannot imagine things have changed all that much. It is not about sterotyping, although Indoensians DO sterotype Westerners a whole lot. Aside from Cambodia, it is the poorest nation in East Asia. Indonesia and come here illegaly to work as maids and the average wage here is 3 US dollars a day! Imagine then what they see when they look at a white face in trainers probably costing them 8 months wages?

On converting to Islam, a man here did as you did, and felt being a Muslim made him somehow immune to the dangers posed by rebels,etc. He was killed along with the rest (killed by Abu Sayyaf to be exact). It depends on the person, on both sides. Still, the danger is always there.

I do agree of course in that tourists would ALWAYS respect local customs and sensibilities, to the best of their ability.

 

[Sunray]

Respecting local customs and sensibilities is sensible, but its also on them to be understanding when foreigners are welcomed in, even with the best will in the world I can't expect to understand every local custom.

You cannot tell people that its great to come there and and cater to westerners by having bars, serving alcohol and allowing sunbathing when its against the principal sensibilities of the majority of the population.

This cannot be ignored as a point of trouble in these countries. I often wonder if jealousy of the money the owners make does not come into the factors for some of these bombings. Having a steady stream of western tourists is a very good living in those areas.

 

[derf]

No matter how close you feel you are, you are still a foreigner in thier eyes and sorry to say, this will not change.

On converting to Islam, a man here did as you did, and felt being a Muslim made him somehow immune to the dangers posed by rebels,etc. He was killed along with the rest (killed by Abu Sayyaf to be exact). It depends on the person, on both sides. Still, the danger is always there.

I agree with most of what you said. The white face in expensive trainers bit is a real truth. I have many things that the local will never have and the house stands out as a special place in the village as it's has a lot of money spent on it by local standards but the villages remain on very good terms with me and I am very much part of village life. I help out in village projects and I go to all the village events. Someone always pops in to invite me to them.
It is a sad fact that there are some idiots in this world bent on hating someone. It's just as true for the nutty end of Islam as it for the BNP back in the UK but I'm happy to say that most people here are very nice and great with visitors from anywhere.
I had the misfortune to crash my bike on an oily road last monday but not too much damage to me or the bike. The reaction of the people who helped me was typical of the attitudes here. They even offered me a bed for the night if I was stuck.
I still stand by what I said. Come to visit the area. It's great for tourists and at the same time you are helping out people who really need the cash.

I, by the way, am not far from Wonosobo, Central Java.

If anyone wants to visit the area I check the forum about once a week. PM me and I'll be happy to send you a few pointers as to what to see and where to stay.

 

[rachamim18]

I like Java alot, as I might have said. I am really interested in the Hindu dynasties. They actually ruled this part of the PHilippines as well so there is alot of crossover although all that remains here is the word Raja.

Yeah, people in this part of the world can go either of two ways. On their own they are almost always nice beyond description but get them in a mob, at times, it can be an event for sure. More so here perhaps because it is a mixed population in my part of the island and there is alot of alcohol in the mix...

One thing I REALLY like about Java, is that noone has ever called me "Joe." It grates on the nerves here.

 

[kyser_soze]

OK, for the slightly dim who don't understand the concept of litigation...

If the USG don't put a warning up saying 'Be careful, there have been bombs here before, there are lots of muslims, some of them might not like you on the basis that you're American' and someone blows a load of yanks on a bus up, who do you think their relatives are going to blame - the bombers or the USG? More to the point, who can their relatives sue more easily, and more lucratively? That's right, the USG. This way if someone blows some merkin tourists up they can't sue the govt for not warning them...

It's really not that difficult to work out, unless of course you're some kind of sky pixie worshipper...oh...

 

[derf]

OK, for the slightly dim who don't understand the concept of litigation...

It's really not that difficult to work out, unless of course you're some kind of sky pixie worshipper...oh...

Maybe but I tend to believe that the political motive is far stronger that anything else.

Anyways what's wrong with sky pixies. Don't dare insult the great pixie or some of the more extreme pixie followers may bomb your ass.

Before anyone tells me I'm a pixiephobic I should add that I know several pixieists and have pixieist friends.

PS - sorry.

 

[hipipol]

The Cholas

The great Tamil Chola dynasties from their base in South East India and their on/off capital at Madurai were great sea farers, explorers and traders, as well as being a powerful force in southern India. The Tamil population in Sri Lanka moved there first in Chola times and the Hindu Kingdoms in Malasia and Vietnam were also Chola colonies. Prior to arrival of Islam Hinduism was common throughout South East Asia, Bali being the last survivor.
Any chance of you accepting Shiva into your life then rachamim18?