T & P
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All being well, it's happenning in a mere couple of hours! 
India's Chandrayaan-3 mission to soft land on the south pole of the Moon
- Thread starter T & P
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bimble
floofy
What is actually going on with this new race for the s pole of moon, everyone is at it right now.
I don’t think it’s just scientific curiosity. When the Americans put a flag there were they claiming territory? What’s the plan with that, are there any kind of agreements which say you can’t just claim the water on the moon as belonging to your nation ?
I don’t think it’s just scientific curiosity. When the Americans put a flag there were they claiming territory? What’s the plan with that, are there any kind of agreements which say you can’t just claim the water on the moon as belonging to your nation ?
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 prevents this
The Outer Space Treaty at a Glance | Arms Control Association
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Google outer space treaty and moon agreement
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
theres a treaty that says its international, no one nation to own it. However the reality of an armed claim has never been tested. Maybe they'd have to re-invent those gyrojet pistols from the 60s before you can have low g moon war tho.
bimble
floofy
Interesting. No nukes in space, phew!The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 prevents this
The Outer Space Treaty at a Glance | Arms Control Association
www.armscontrol.org
But also says you can withdraw yr country from the friendly agreement by writing a letter.
ska invita
back on the other side
Resources, namely moon water
What explains the race among nations to reach the moon’s south pole?
India’s mission could expand knowledge of lunar water ice, potentially one of the moon’s most valuable resources.
Agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on imo
urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
The recently devised Artemis Accords are an attempt to further refine the Outer Space Treaty, in terms of the exploration and "peaceful use" of celestial bodies.
Section 10.2 establishes that non-national actors can extract resources:
The Signatories emphasize that the extraction and utilization of space resources, including any recovery from the surface or subsurface of the Moon, Mars, comets, or asteroids, should be executed in a manner that complies with the Outer Space Treaty and in support of safe and sustainable space activities. The Signatories affirm that the extraction of space resources does not inherently constitute national appropriation under Article II of the Outer Space Treaty, and that contracts and other legal instruments relating to space resources should be consistent with that Treaty.
Section 11.7 looks intriguing
In order to implement their obligations under the Outer Space Treaty, the Signatories intend to provide notification of their activities and commit to coordinating with any relevant actor to avoid harmful interference. The area wherein this notification and coordination will be implemented to avoid harmful interference is referred to as a ‘safety zone’. A safety zone should be the area in which nominal operations of a relevant activity or an anomalous event could reasonably cause harmful interference. The Signatories intend to observe the following principles related to safety zones:
(a) The size and scope of the safety zone, as well as the notice and coordination, should reflect the nature of the operations being conducted and the environment that such operations are conducted in;
(b) The size and scope of the safety zone should be determined in a reasonable manner 5
leveraging commonly accepted scientific and engineering principles;
(c) The nature and existence of safety zones is expected to change over time reflecting the status of the relevant operation. If the nature of an operation changes, the operating Signatory should alter the size and scope of the corresponding safety zone as appropriate.
Here's a visualisation of US Marines "coordinating...to avoid harmful interference" under the provisions of Section 11.7, from Apple's "For All Mankind" [which by the way is a fantastic hard SF show, possibly better, and certainly harder, than the Expanse]
en.wikipedia.org
www.nasa.gov
Section 10.2 establishes that non-national actors can extract resources:
The Signatories emphasize that the extraction and utilization of space resources, including any recovery from the surface or subsurface of the Moon, Mars, comets, or asteroids, should be executed in a manner that complies with the Outer Space Treaty and in support of safe and sustainable space activities. The Signatories affirm that the extraction of space resources does not inherently constitute national appropriation under Article II of the Outer Space Treaty, and that contracts and other legal instruments relating to space resources should be consistent with that Treaty.
Section 11.7 looks intriguing
In order to implement their obligations under the Outer Space Treaty, the Signatories intend to provide notification of their activities and commit to coordinating with any relevant actor to avoid harmful interference. The area wherein this notification and coordination will be implemented to avoid harmful interference is referred to as a ‘safety zone’. A safety zone should be the area in which nominal operations of a relevant activity or an anomalous event could reasonably cause harmful interference. The Signatories intend to observe the following principles related to safety zones:
(a) The size and scope of the safety zone, as well as the notice and coordination, should reflect the nature of the operations being conducted and the environment that such operations are conducted in;
(b) The size and scope of the safety zone should be determined in a reasonable manner 5
leveraging commonly accepted scientific and engineering principles;
(c) The nature and existence of safety zones is expected to change over time reflecting the status of the relevant operation. If the nature of an operation changes, the operating Signatory should alter the size and scope of the corresponding safety zone as appropriate.
Here's a visualisation of US Marines "coordinating...to avoid harmful interference" under the provisions of Section 11.7, from Apple's "For All Mankind" [which by the way is a fantastic hard SF show, possibly better, and certainly harder, than the Expanse]
Artemis Accords - Wikipedia
Artemis Accords - NASA
Through the Artemis campaign, NASA will land the first woman, first person of color, and its first international partner astronaut on the Moon, make new
www.nasa.gov
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urbanspaceman
Well-Known Member
And not just water. When the NASA LCROSS problem crashed into the South Pole of the Moon in 2010, the ejecta plume was found to contain:Resources, namely moon water
What explains the race among nations to reach the moon’s south pole?
India’s mission could expand knowledge of lunar water ice, potentially one of the moon’s most valuable resources.www.aljazeera.com
Agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on imo
Water
Hydrogen sulfide
Sulfur dioxide
Ammonia
Carbon dioxide
Ethylene
Methanol
Methane
and smaller amounts of other volatiles.
That is, all the light elements needed for life support and propulsion. These rather restricted areas - permanently shadowed crater bottoms - at the Lunar north and south poles are the most valuable real estate in the solar system.
Nearly done with the Fine Braking phase.
editor
hiraethified
I fucking love science.
Loadsa coverage here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-india-66576580
Loadsa coverage here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-india-66576580
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
It's a pretty basic spacecraft in terms of mass, instruments etc. The CLPS program is a series of moon missions with similar specs and budgets in the same order of magnitude. A whole bunch of them have been contracted out to all the new space startups.Bloody hell. £58m mission cost is pretty much loose change in space exploration terms. I doubt NASA or ESA's budgets for such a mission would be far off the half billion mark...
Commercial Lunar Payload Services - Wikipedia
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The rover has been out for its first walk
Chandrayaan-3: India lunar rover Pragyaan takes a walk on the Moon
Chandrayaan-3's rover Pragyaan exits Vikram lander and takes first steps near the little-explored south pole.
www.bbc.co.uk
editor
hiraethified
Because they're fucking morons. Please don't side-track this science-based thread with their garbage thoughts.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
Yeah, pretty good. We could go to the moon nearly 640 times for the cost of one pretty shoddy track and trace system.Bloody hell. £58m mission cost is pretty much loose change in space exploration terms. I doubt NASA or ESA's budgets for such a mission would be far off the half billion mark...
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