I'm pretty deep in DeFi and wondered if anyone is keen to learn?

[Athos]

Nope, don’t get it. If it’s not in your bank account or in a sock under your mattress, it’s not money so you were never rich

That's an odd definition of 'rich'. Most people would think of someone who owns, say, many successful businesses, houses, cars, jewellery, etc. as rich. Especially since money in the bank or under the mattress can equally become worthless if, say, the bank collapses or hyperinflation occurs.

 

[moochedit]

The irony is they are only “rich” if they convert their magic coins back into real money

Yep

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The irony is they are only “rich” if they convert their magic coins back into real money

Well, no. They are rich in that having those shares/magic coins/whatever gives access to vast lines of credit, thus purchasing power.

To define “rich” simply by pounds in the bank is somewhat misguided.

 

[Supine]

Well, no. They are rich in that having those shares/magic coins/whatever gives access to vast lines of credit, thus purchasing power.

To define “rich” simply by pounds in the bank is somewhat misguided.

I don’t think i agree with that. You’re talking about lines of real word money credit and purchasing power? If so that’s just because another coin enthusiast or institution will take on the risk of magic coin.

Rich is having real world money that isn’t going anywhere, not long complex hash keys. Especially keys that are saved on usb sticks and hidden in jam jars

 

[UnderOpenSky]

The irony is they are only “rich” if they convert their magic coins back into real money

Yes. It's why there are exchanges to do this. Although there is one less now.

Some people have made a lot of money.

 

[moochedit]

This thread needs merging with the other one.

 

[Orang Utan]

You can’t spend money with shares

 

[Athos]

You can’t spend money with shares

Would you rather have £1 or £1M pounds worth of diamonds?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You can’t spend money with shares

Use them to acquire credit and you kinda can.

You’re talking about lines of real word money credit and purchasing power? If so that’s just because another coin enthusiast or institution will take on the risk of magic coin.

That may be so, but the result is still a huge house with a Ferrari on the driveway.

 

[MickiQ]

You can’t spend money with shares

Of course you can, banks will happily advance money against share value, pretty much every factory and office block in this country has been funded on that basis.

 

[8ball]

I don’t think i agree with that. You’re talking about lines of real word money credit and purchasing power? If so that’s just because another coin enthusiast or institution will take on the risk of magic coin.

Yeah… remember Zimbabwe?

What you’re describing is market confidence, and ultimately all currencies and rely on it.

 

[Spymaster]

They * could * have been "rich" if they sold when price was higher than they bought it for but people get greedy when that happens and think it'll keep going up forever so they wait and wait and ...crash

On the other hand, plenty of people make decent money out of crypto. Not everyone makes mega-bucks but many do rather nicely. A relatively junior member of our staff put together enough for a very sizeable deposit on a house. There's money to be made if you know what you're doing.

 

[Spymaster]

I don’t think i agree with that. You’re talking about lines of real word money credit and purchasing power? If so that’s just because another coin enthusiast or institution will take on the risk of magic coin.

Sorry but this is nonsense. You do realise that cryptocurrency can be converted to "real money" relatively easily, right?

It has a value and can be exchanged for other things, just like shares, diamonds, or anything else. There are risks because it's not traditionally exchanged and regulated, but it's not completely Wild West.

 

[Supine]

Sorry but this is nonsense. You do realise that cryptocurrency can be converted to "real money" relatively easily, right?

It has a value and can be exchanged for other things, just like shares, diamonds, or anything else. There are risks because it's not traditionally exchanged and regulated, but it's not completely Wild West.

Well that was my whole point so glad you agree

 

[Spymaster]

Well that was my whole point so glad you agree

I don't think we do!

 

[Ax^]

Surely money is only money when it’s real, ie cash in accounts not shares or whatever

my sweet summer child

most money is just numbers on a screen

 

[Artaxerxes]

On the other hand, plenty of people make decent money out of crypto. Not everyone makes mega-bucks but many do rather nicely. A relatively junior member of our staff put together enough for a very sizeable deposit on a house. There's money to be made if you know what you're doing.

It depends what level of the Ponzi scheme you check out at

 

[MickiQ]

I don't know if it's true or not but I'm sure that I read somewhere that the total amount of cash in circulation is <1% of the amount on banks balance sheets. Over the past weekend I have paid a hotel bill, visited attractions, bought meals, train tickets and theatre tickets all by just tapping one piece of plastic against another. The only person who showed any interest in actual cash was the stall owner who sold my wife some jewellry and I'm pretty certain that's due to the '20% discount' she offered would be subidised by HMRC.

 

[Spymaster]

It depends what level of the Ponzi scheme you check out at

Well most aren't Ponzi schemes (Onecoin was but that was a straightforward scam), and crypto works more like a commodity than other investments, so in that respect it's the same as any other with regards to profits and when you "check out".

 

[newme]

FTX is a causing a bit of a mess as it unwinds....

 

[Gromit]

On the other hand, plenty of people make decent money out of crypto. Not everyone makes mega-bucks but many do rather nicely. A relatively junior member of our staff put together enough for a very sizeable deposit on a house. There's money to be made if you know what you're doing.

For someone to win someone else has to lose, sooner or later.

 

[Spymaster]

For someone to win someone else has to lose, sooner or later.

Insightful stuff

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Insightful stuff

It's an important point, no? It's the crux of the matter.

If you invest in a company that does stuff, you can make money from that investment because the company does that stuff successfully. It is quite possible with investment for everyone to win - investors, employees, customers all better off.

Not so with crypto speculation. It doesn't do anything of value so the only money you can make comes from someone else losing.

 

[8ball]

If you invest in a company that does stuff, you can make money from that investment because the company does that stuff successfully. It is quite possible with investment for everyone to win - investors, employees, customers all better off.

<checks FAQs>

 

[Spymaster]

It's an important point, no? It's the crux of the matter.

Well not particularly. As you go on to point out, it's perfectly possible for transactions in stocks and and similar investments to take place where there are no losers. Crypto is in its infancy at the moment and broadly speaking has 2 functions; to pay for stuff, and to speculate on it itself. Hard currency is the same. The fact that someone is selling and someone is buying doesn't necessarily mean that one of those two is losing money (although it may), and if that were the case it would only be a particular problem if it was the same people losing all the time. It's like football; someone wins and someone loses. That's only a major problem if you lose too often, in which case it's likely time to get out of the game!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well not particularly. As you go on to point out, it's perfectly possible for transactions in stocks and and similar investments to take place where there are no losers. Crypto is in its infancy at the moment and broadly speaking has 2 functions; to pay for stuff, and to speculate on it itself. Hard currency is the same. The fact that someone is selling and someone is buying doesn't necessarily mean that one of those two is losing money (although it may), and if that were the case it would only be a particular problem if it was the same people losing all the time. It's like football; someone wins and someone loses. That's only a major problem if you lose too often, in which case it's likely time to get out of the game!

If it's not adding value, it's zero-sum. That's the point. So if you have made money out of crypto, someone else has to lose that amount of money at some point down the line as the thing unravels. That's how pyramid schemes work.

Not so sure crypto is in its infancy. I suspect it is rather old already. Better to measure its age in dog-years.

 

[Spymaster]

If it's not adding value, it's zero-sum. That's the point. So if you have made money out of crypto, someone else has to lose that amount of money at some point down the line as the thing unravels. That's how pyramid schemes work.

But it doesn't necessarily have to "unravel". Most don't. It's value also comes from the supply and demand of whatever crypto it is (how many people want to sell their coins and how much is being mined). It's volatile for sure, and can lose value very quickly. That doesn't mean it's a scam or pyramid scheme. Again, it's still in its infancy and regulated (poorly) as a commodity rather than security, but in time that'll change and my guess is that it'll be just another way to buy things on the web in a few years time.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But it doesn't necessarily have to "unravel". Most don't. It's value also comes from the supply and demand of whatever crypto it is (how many people want to sell their coins and how much is being mined). It's volatile for sure, and can lose value very quickly. That doesn't mean it's a scam or pyramid scheme. Again, it's still in its infancy and regulated (poorly) as a commodity rather than security, but in time that'll change and my guess is that it'll be just another way to buy things on the web in a few years time.

Bitcoin, specifically, has a built-in lack of scaleability in terms of transactions, so it can't develop any significant use value as a way to buy things. Its design precludes it. And yet its exchange value has ballooned through speculation. That's a pyramid scheme.

My guess is that the whole thing will fall on its arse.

One of us will be right.

 

[Spymaster]

One of us will be right.

It'll be me.

 

[TopCat]

Hello Harry.