Ian Tomlinson CPS verdict: "no realistic prospect of conviction"

[detective-boy]

Why not?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[Pickman's model]

I have posted about that, when the Guardian report was first quoted ... but if you can't be bothered to look for it ...

It makes no sense, the Guardian report about the IPCC being refused access to the PM. If it was routine PM the IPCC would simply not be interested. If the IPCC were interested, it implies that the matter had been referred to them, in which case it wasbeing dealt with as a death following police contact, in which case it should have been a "special" PM. The question is "Did the IPCC request a "special" PM?" If they did, and the Coroner refused, that would be highly irregular (and should have led to the IPCC challenging the Coroner's decision). If they did not, and yet they were interested in the case, that was incompetent and they should have done and whoever's decision that was fucked up and should be dealt with.

As for the reports that the family were not allowed to be present at the PM ... I have never known a family be present at a PM. I cannot think of a worse experience for a family to go through - seeing the deceased's face pulled back from the skull, the top of the skull cut off with a grinder and the brain sectioned and all the rest. If the report meant they had some right to be represented at the PM, or to have their own pathologist there or something, I am not aware of any such right (though there has been steady increase in rights in relation to inquests (which are not PMs) over the last few years and it may have been added whilst I haven't been looking). I have never known a family present or represented at a PM and I don't think there is any such right though ... and you might have expected Liberty to mention it if it existed ... and they don't: http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourri...stigations-into-deaths/inquest-procedure.html

for someone who affects to have been a homicide investigator your knowledge of the post-death investigation seems strangely limited. i found this within 30 seconds of seeing your post here quoted: http://www.knifecrimes.org/post-mortem.html

which clearly states that the family have a right to be represented, although they may only be present if they are a qualified medico.

 

[detective-boy]

as for having numbers on nato helmets (which i assume is what you mean by 'riot helmets'), you may have noticed that they are on the back.

You mean like I posted ...

this does suggest that they do indeed have numbers which are unique identifiers, even if they do not indicate the borough (or unit) from whence they came.

We were referring to shoulder numbers.

You really are a fucking objectionable, supercillious waste of oxygen and fucking bandwidth, aren't you.

 

[Pickman's model]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

can you keep on-topic - y/n

 

[Pickman's model]

We were referring to shoulder numbers.

yes, the numbers to which i was referring were on the shoulder which is where you would expect to find epaulettes.

 

[Pickman's model]

You really are a fucking objectionable, supercillious waste of oxygen and fucking bandwidth, aren't you.

i ask again: can you keep on-topic - y/n

 

[detective-boy]

i found this within 30 seconds of seeing your post here quoted: http://www.knifecrimes.org/post-mortem.html

Fucking hell! Pickman's model posts something fucking useful!!! Hold the front page!

Thank you for that. It is a surprisingly informative source for the Home Office (who have recently upgraded their whole website ... I hope it's all like this ...). As I did point out, the rights of families of the deceased have been increased recently and this must be one of the new ones. (The right of an accused to be represented has been there for donkeys years).

(ETA: On researching it, apparently not - it's in Rule 7 of the Coroner's Rules 1984. I knew that the Coroner had to inform the family of the deceased, I hadn't realised that they had the right to be represented at the first PM. I never encountered any that were. You learn something every day!)

(ETA: Despite appearances, it's not a Home Office designed site but one from an independent Charity. So much for the hopes that all the Home Office site was going to be so clear and informative following their re-vamp ... )

 

[Pickman's model]

Fucking hell! Pickman's model posts something fucking useful!!! Hold the front page!

if you have anything on-topic to add i would be interested to hear it.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I don't have a wife. I didn't ask you a leading question, either. I asked why you could not openly say whether you would or would not support the Tomlinson campaign.

 

[detective-boy]

I don't have a wife. I didn't ask you a leading question, either. I asked why you could not openly say whether you would or would not support the Tomlinson campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

 

[Proper Tidy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

But it still isn't a loaded question. I'm not asking you to condemn the Met, the CPS nor the officers involved. I'm asking if you support the family's campaign for an enquiry into the whole mess.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why would they do that if it is official policy not to?


Yes it can. And it is. It is gobshite officers who think they can get away with it steadily pushing the boundaries and when one or two get away with it, more start. And it is incompetent / pathetic first line supervisors (sergeants and inspectors) failing to do their jobs properly. And it is senior officers failing to hold the first line supervisors to account for failing to do their jobs properly. It is shit policing and shit supervision ... exactly what is behind a lot of the problems with ordinary policing.

So, institutional failings, by any other name.

 

[detective-boy]

I'm asking if you support the family's campaign for an enquiry into the whole mess.

No. You're not. You asked:

Will you be giving a few quid to the Ian Tomlinson Family Campaign, d-b?

And don't wriggle and say you didn't mean make an actual donation or some such shite - you even provided information about fucking PayPal.

You don;t even know what you fucking post ...

 

[cesare]

No. You're not. You asked:



And don't wriggle and say you didn't mean make an actual donation or some such shite - you even provided information about fucking PayPal.

You don;t even know what you fucking post ...

I think you'll find those are two different posters.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I think you'll find those are two different posters.

fucking forensic this joker eh?

it's almost as painful to watch as his continuing farcical efforts to try and somehow make the patel examination somehow the crucial, and key, piece of evidence that has effectively cut off all routes of legal redress against the copper involved.....

 

[tarannau]

Amazing, isn't it. He's a hysterical nutbag unable to even distinguish between posters, which should tell you all about his care and attention to detail. He'll be onto his sponsored cuntathon before we know it.

 

[Pickman's model]

You don;t even know what you fucking post ...

you don't know what he posts is what you mean

 

[Pickman's model]

No. You're not. You asked:



And don't wriggle and say you didn't mean make an actual donation or some such shite - you even provided information about fucking PayPal.

You don;t even know what you fucking post ...

yeh they all look the same don't they

 

[the button]

I'm Proper Tidy, and so is my wife.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm Proper Tidy, and so is my wife.

Hmm, I've heard she's dead mucky, that one.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[detective-boy]

I think you'll find those are two different posters.

I know.

I think you'll find Proper Tidy didn't actually ask any question of their own, they simply started asking why I wouldn't answer that posted by the button. I therefore assumed that they had adopted that question as their own ...

It gets more like Tag Team Twat here every day ...

 

[cesare]

I know.

I think you'll find Proper Tidy didn't actually ask any question of their own, they simply started asking why I wouldn't answer that posted by the button. I therefore assumed that they had adopted that question as their own ...

It gets more like Tag Team Twat here every day ...

But Proper Tidy didn't "you even provided information about fucking PayPal" - did he? You made a mistake. Man up and admit it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know.

I think you'll find Proper Tidy didn't actually ask any question of their own, they simply started asking why I wouldn't answer that posted by the button. I therefore assumed that they had adopted that question as their own ...

It gets more like Tag Team Twat here every day ...

it just gets worse

 

[Proper Tidy]

No. You're not. You asked:



And don't wriggle and say you didn't mean make an actual donation or some such shite - you even provided information about fucking PayPal.

You don;t even know what you fucking post ...

Lol.

Mad detecting skills there db.

 

[detective-boy]

But Proper Tidy didn't "you even provided information about fucking PayPal" - did he? You made a mistake. Man up and admit it.

I'd forgotten it wasn't them who had initially posted the question by then, yes. But you cannot deny that they had adopted the initial post of the button. Anything else is simply misrepresentation.

(ETA: NIce to see that this is again dengenerating into a "slag db off-a-thon" rather than any attempt to discuss the fucking issues ... ) (Four substantive on-topic posts apart from mine in the last 34, the rest simply being trolling shite, including some by posters who have just appeared in the fucking thread to have a pop ...). And you deny that there is a Cunt's Collective at work here ... )

 

[tarannau]

Oh please, you feel fit to group and slag off posters indiscriminately, often confusing them or using the kind of logic that small children would laugh it. It's a bit rich to start accusing others of personal insults when you're basically the king pottymouth, prone to makng assine generalisations about swathes of other posters.

Maybe you can take some responsibility for your own posts and lack of self control for a change.

 

[Fedayn]

Luton man who threw egg at Baroness Warsi jailed

Gavin Reid, 23, of Green Close, Luton, had denied a charge under the Public Order Act of intentionally causing harassment, alarm or distress.

But City of Westminster magistrates' found him guilty and sentenced him to six weeks' imprisonment.

And yet........

Ms Roscoe said politicians tend to be "reasonably robust".

"There has been no evidence to make me sufficiently sure that she (Baroness Warsi) felt any harassment, alarm or distress."

Of course the claims that there's one law for the police and another for ordinary people is paranoid anti-police rubbish.....

 

[detective-boy]

Of course the claims that there's one law for the police and another for ordinary people is paranoid anti-police rubbish.....

What are you chatting about? She's a Tory peer not a police officer ...

 

[detective-boy]

Maybe you can take some responsibility for your own posts and lack of self control for a change.

Maybe you can actually understand the point I'm making for a change ...

I don't slag people off "indiscriminately". You get some fucks thrown into you if you are failing to engage with the discussion sensibly or, more usually, if all you do is turn up to have a pop at me rather than contribute something meaningful. As others have pointed out elsewhere, the amount of shit I get is immense ... er ... like the majority of the last 34 posts ... The usual idiots have turned up to make post after fucking post about some (invented) massive fuck-up by me whilst not making any substantive contribution to the thread at all.

Why don't you have a pop at the trolls instead of their victim for standing up to them???