How would you classify the music they play on Jazz FM? Years ago it used to be Jazz but no longer.

[LeslieB]

Pirates being legalised are still proving to be the exceptions rather than the rule. Ofcom are woefully conservative still in giving licenses to former pirates -

And at least part of the reason for that is lack of precious frequencies

I'm not convinced that the move from FM to DAB for the BBC and commercial stations is really going to 'free up the dial' for lots of diverse community and radically different music programming stations tbh.

I do, quite a few groups have applied for community licences and had their applications denied purely on the grounds of lack of frequencies.

ie they have got through the initial application process, proved they had a workable funding model and were going to be sustainable, proved a community need and then been turned down by the technical guys on the grounds of no available frequencies.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

And at least part of the reason for that is lack of precious frequencies



I do, quite a few groups have applied for community licences and had their applications denied purely on the grounds of lack of frequencies.

ie they have got through the initial application process, proved they had a workable funding model and were going to be sustainable, proved a community need and then been turned down by the technical guys on the grounds of no available frequencies.

But this has been the same propaganda since the late 80s and early 90s. You know it's not true, come off it.

I'm not saying internet radio is the be all and end all, I just find it ironic that you think DAB is the way forward for these stations when you know that pirates will broadcast regardless. If those frequencies aren't available they wouldn't be able to broadcast or would be intercepted/intercept other frequencies. This doesn't really happen that much. and when it does it's mainly dodgy transmitters sprogging.

 

[LeslieB]

Many areas of the UK without DAB coverage when I last remember owning a handset. And most car radios are FM

How long ago was this? BBC coverage in particular has come along in leaps and bounds recently. And most new cars have DAB now.

I'm not convinced that an internet radio device is harder to operate than a DAB one, esp with the routine scans you need to perform on DAB handsets when moving from location to location.

Grannies don't tend to move their kitchen/bedside radio from location to location though. And even if you do, scans are *very* easy to do. On most radios you press the scan button and that is it.

No, broadband and internet radio isn't *that* technical, but it is more technical than DAB, and more expensive if you've no interest in using a PC.

 

[stethoscope]

I do, quite a few groups have applied for community licences and had their applications denied purely on the grounds of lack of frequencies.

ie they have got through the initial application process, proved they had a workable funding model and were going to be sustainable, proved a community need and then been turned down by the technical guys on the grounds of no available frequencies.

That's a shit Ofcom 'get out' though and always has been. They don't need to ship stations from FM to DAB in order to do it, just need to re-organise the FM band in a bit better (look at the 'spread' that the BBC national broadcasters have). And then it's mainly only a problem in urban centres - London, Manchester, Brum.

I was back in London last week and I received 38 pirates alone. Now, clearly, some of them ride too close to each other and legal stations, but really! Lack of frequencies is a piss-poor excuse that Ofcom (before that the RCA, before that the DTI) have been riding on for years - bit like the over exaggeration of drugs and criminal networks that pirates are involved in and how many planes will fall out of the sky.

 

[BandWagon]

Jazz24 is the BEST online jazz radio station...

Tx for the link.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

How long ago was this? BBC coverage in particular has come along in leaps and bounds recently. And most new cars have DAB now.



Grannies don't tend to move their kitchen/bedside radio from location to location though. And even if you do, scans are *very* easy to do. On most radios you press the scan button and that is it.

No, broadband and internet radio isn't *that* technical, but it is more technical than DAB, and more expensive if you've no interest in using a PC.

There are dedicated internet radio devices these days. It's absolutely no different to DAB. So your argument revolves around what again? FM band is going to be reorganised and voila the 30 or so pirates I could pick up in North London are suddenly going to be given community licenses?

 

[LeslieB]

But this has been the same propaganda since the late 80s and early 90s. You know it's not true, come off it.

Indeed it was an argument used in the 1960s against new fangled pop radio.

Boy who cried wolf for sure. But London *is* out of frequencies. London pirates *do* interfere with legal stations, sometimes miles out of the capital.

And then there is dear old Milton Keynes. Radio choice in the land of the concrete cow is severely restricted, due to all the legal stations in London and the West Midlands. The London and Brum stations are close enough to interfere, but not close enough to hear properly. They have one, count it, one legal commercial station. And it's Heart FM.


Stoke on Trent, sandwiched between the aformentioned Messed Widlands and Manchester is in a similar situation.

The only way forward for these areas is DAB.

 

[stethoscope]

There are dedicated internet radio devices these days. It's absolutely no different to DAB. So your argument revolves around what again? FM band is going to be reorganised and voila the 30 or so pirates I could pick up in North London are suddenly going to be given community licenses?

Innit, it ain't gonna happen It's not about spare frequencies, it's about the fundamental conservatism that exists at the heart of the radio authorities in this country. The one that makes it the most heavily policed in the world.

 

[stethoscope]

A white, mainly middle aged, public school boys network that doesn't fundamentally understand youth or different cultures from its own. And its licensing of the radio frequency has always reflected that.

They were saying 'no frequencies' 25 fucking years ago with Kiss, yet they managed to somehow manage to find some for RSLs and community stations in more recent years despite no stations actually having left FM yet for DAB only!

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Indeed it was an argument used in the 1960s against new fangled pop radio.

Boy who cried wolf for sure. But London *is* out of frequencies. London pirates *do* interfere with legal stations, sometimes miles out of the capital.

And then there is dear old Milton Keynes. Radio choice in the land of the concrete cow is severely restricted, due to all the legal stations in London and the West Midlands. The London and Brum stations are close enough to interfere, but not close enough to hear properly. They have one, count it, one legal commercial station. And it's Heart FM.


Stoke on Trent, sandwiched between the aformentioned Messed Widlands and Manchester is in a similar situation.

The only way forward for these areas is DAB.

Absolute nonsense I'm afraid. Most pirates broadcast in a 30 mile radius if that.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

You can't pick up most of the pirates in N london in W london for christ's sake. How are they interfering with stations in Brum or leicester?

 

[LeslieB]

There are dedicated internet radio devices these days. It's absolutely no different to DAB.

It **is** different to DAB because it requires a broadband/wifi connection. That costs money and can be unreliable.

So your argument revolves around what again? FM band is going to be reorganised and voila the 30 or so pirates I could pick up in North London are suddenly going to be given community licenses?

Yes, the FM band is going to be reorganised and hopefully some of those 30 pirates will go legal.

At least those that don't go that route won't be interfering with legal stations.

 

[stethoscope]

Yes, the FM band is going to be reorganised and hopefully some of those 30 pirates will go legal.

Well good luck with waiting for that to happen, because I don't share your optimism

 

[LeslieB]

You can't pick up most of the pirates in N london in W london for christ's sake. How are they interfering with stations in Brum or leicester?

Now read my post about Milton Keynes again, and you will see I am talking about *legal* stations in London and Birmingham reducing choice in MK.

 

[stethoscope]

Now read my post about Milton Keynes again, and you will see I am talking about *legal* stations in London and Birmingham reducing choice in MK.

What?! My grandparents lived in MK for years and even at the top of their block I could usually only get a handful of London and other (outside MK) pirates And, even with London-wide legals, it didn't make that much difference. You've been mugged.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

If we're going to play the guilt card it's easier for older people to operate conventional FM radio, and reorganisation of the FM band won't impact them whatsoever.

I'm sorry I can't take your utopian idea that pirates will magically be granted community licenses seriously.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Now read my post about Milton Keynes again, and you will see I am talking about *legal* stations in London and Birmingham reducing choice in MK.

Wut?

I used to go to MK quite a bit as well and I couldn't pick up London stations, legal or otherwise.

 

[LeslieB]

If we're going to play the guilt card it's easier for older people to operate conventional FM radio, .

Not when you are desparately trying to find Radio Four or Ken Bruce among a sea of pirate signals.

If you choose the right one, DAB is easier to operate than FM.

 

[stethoscope]

Not when you are desparately trying to find Radio Four or Ken Bruce among a sea of pirate signals.

In London yeah, but in MK, get out of it My grandparents lived in one of the highest points in MK too!

 

[LeslieB]

Wut?

I used to go to MK quite a bit as well and I couldn't pick up London stations, legal or otherwise.

If a frequency is being used for a high powered station like Capital or LBC in a particular city, you can't reuse it within 40-60 miles. Since MK is within that distance of both London and Birmingham their radio choice is severely restricted.

It might be over-conservative but that is how the FM band is planned.

 

[LeslieB]

In London yeah, but in MK, get out of it My grandparents lived in one of the highest points in MK too!

So you would accept that, in London at least, DAB is the best way to listen to the national stations?

 

[stethoscope]

So you would accept that, in London at least, DAB is the best way to listen to the national stations?

Not really - I much prefer to hear them in FM over the shit DAB bitrates. I don't deny that some pirates stations ride very close to legal stations though - not helped by density of buildings, etc in areas.

 

[LeslieB]

DAB + is going to solve that. The current DAB bit rates will sound great in DAB+

But I'm done arguing this.

 

[stethoscope]

DAB + is going to solve that. The current DAB bit rates will sound great in DAB+

Not necessarily. One of the problems with DAB is not that it can't sound good - it's that the stations have been crowded together on the multiplex's too much - leaving them with 128k bitrates at best, sometimes mono, and that the DAB infrastructure is quite weak signalled in places.

DAB+ will suffer some of the same problems if stations are still given a paltry share of the bitrate on offer, and the power from multiplexes aren't great. Of course, DAB+ is a better technology, but, wait, what's this:

Now in Stereo on DAB across the UK

What bitrate are you broadcasting at?

We're broadcasting at 32kbit/s Stereo AAC+. Using SBR and Parametric stereo (if you're interested).

32k even at AAC+!! For a fucking Jazz station

 

[Hocus Eye.]

[whoosh! - looks up above head with mystified expression.]

 

[LeslieB]

Sorry that got technical and a bit heated.

When you start talking DAB bit rates you know it's time to jump to another thread.

 

[ska invita]

Jazz24 is the BEST online jazz radio station...

currently under threat;
Jazz24
Jazz 24 Threatened
Jazz24 is brought to you by radio station KPLU. The owner of KPLU’s license has announced it is selling the station. If that happens… Jazz 24 Vanishes.
But it’s not over yet. Now a community group has until June 30 to match the existing seven million dollar offer for KPLU and transform it into a community station. To save Jazz24 we must first save KPLU.
That’s where YOU come in.
We’re well on our way but time is growing short. Your donation to Save KPLU will help ensure that you’ll continue to enjoy Jazz 24 for years to come. Thanks!

 

[ska invita]

Just been listening to the don Mike Chadwick on Jazz Fm tonight - what an amazing dj - thought Id google him and went to his twitter only to read this:

"It's the penultimate #satnightexp @jazzfm tonight 10pm. For 22 yrs I've been me, never compromising my love of the music that touches me."

I think he's retiring stethoscope
Really annoyed - only recently started relistening to Jazz FM since it got killed off FM all those years ago - really hope this isnt the total end for him....

 

[stethoscope]

I think he's retiring stethoscope
Really annoyed - only recently started relistening to Jazz FM since it got killed off FM all those years ago - really hope this isnt the total end for him....

Noooooo! He's been part of my jazz-funk/broken beat/nu-jazz education for over 10 years now Way underrated DJ and show.

He keeps saying 'its complicated' on twitter, so don't know what that's about. Hope its not over any increasing dumbing-down of jazz on the station as it gets back on DAB.

 

[nogojones]

I still remember boycotting Jazz FM though even back in the day when they fired Gilles Peterson for playing 'anti-war' songs during the first Gulf War.

I didn't listen to it for years after that and when I did stumble upon it again it was shite