Help with atos pip assessment needed
- Thread starter TopCat
- Start date
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
dunno if this helps but might be worth making the point that such an assessment would be distressing for your DiL (if this is the case)
also, you can (as I understand) record the assessment and have it used in case of any dispute - but you have to use a dual tape recorder (ie it records two identical versions)
Does she have any sort of care team/professionals?
I can ask around my contacts for info/advice of that would help.
solidarity to you and your daughter in law
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Very useful tips; thanks.
The distress issue is an interesting and nuanced factor.
1. She's already gone 6 weeks without £ and is understandably v. anxious not to see any further additional delay.
2. A component of her award recognises her anxiety issues and it is therefore (although unpleasant) not wholly disadvantageous to present in a state of heightened anxiety
3. Eldest son is approaching MPs office to see if they have a dual recorder for lending out
We were just wondering whether or not an unrequested home assessment was indicative of any 'investigatory' motive on the part of the contractors or if it merely reflected a random or back-log induced strategy on their part to progress claims?
BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
Answer to the last bit is no brogdale , they now and then decide to do a home visit with no apparent reason. I had one a couple of years ago without requesting it and around the same time I knew of people who needed them a lot more than I did being refused without providing medical certificates etc.
Normal rules apply though with them as they will interpret any comfort, leisure activities your daughter has of proof that she has no problems whatsoever.
As for recorders I've never used one but I always have someone sitting with me taking notes. On the aforementioned home visit the woman got pretty annoyed about this and asked why are you doing this when you will see a copy of my report, to which we both replied because we dont trust you.
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That's very helpful and reassuring, thanks for the reply.
It certainly ties in with what I've heard after phoning a Brighton based advocacy charity this am. The only thing they added to what you say is that it may be the case that something within the medical report has triggered the home visit approach.
The comfort and leisure point is well taken, and we're working on how we might adjust her room/circs accordingly.
btw, in your experience, was there any suggestion from the assessor that they wanted to see other parts of the house that were not invited into?
I like & admire your direct response to the assessors annoyed reaction to recording.
Gonna see if the local MP has one of the dual recorders.
Thanks again for the advice.
BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
That's very helpful and reassuring, thanks for the reply.
It certainly ties in with what I've heard after phoning a Brighton based advocacy charity this am. The only thing they added to what you say is that it may be the case that something within the medical report has triggered the home visit approach.
The comfort and leisure point is well taken, and we're working on how we might adjust her room/circs accordingly.
btw, in your experience, was there any suggestion from the assessor that they wanted to see other parts of the house that were not invited into?
I like & admire your direct response to the assessors annoyed reaction to recording.
Gonna see if the local MP has one of the dual recorders.
Thanks again for the advice.
No request to see the rest of the house but I stayed in bed anyway and refused to get up to do the "physical" tests as they already had enough evidence from real professionals on what I could and could not do.
I suppose if there was good cause ie bathroom adaptations they could reasonably ask to see them but any rooms not relevant to the claim/claimant would certainly be a no.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That's very clear & helpful; thanks again.
BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
I'll never forgive them for refusing my Mothers claim on the grounds that she made them a cup of tea. The guy sat there and let her do it before letting the DWP know that despite being terminally ill with cancer everything was fine. She died a day before a successful appeal notification arrived.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So sorry and angry to hear that.
Unbelievably upsetting.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The trick seems to be...
- Have someone with you assiduously "taking notes".
- Have a phone in your pocket recording the assessment.
- Transcribe the essentials from the recording to provide a complete set of contemporaneous "notes", which are then admissible in a way the recording would not be.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
More really useful advice; thanks for that.
I'm glad to say that Mrs B will be present to take notes and I've told her to record as well (if we don't get the dual machine thing) so that anything she might miss can be added.
Cheers.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Just a quick update.
Mrs B is getting increasingly concerned about the potential for her not to get to DiL's (unrequested) home assessment...virus disruption/self-isolation and all that. Not an unreasonable concern, tbh.
So, for arguments sake...she can't make the journey....that leaves vulnerable DiL at home on her own (son can't take time off precarious employ) to accept an unaccompanied stranger (maybe male?) into her flat.
Is that what happens?
Mrs B is getting increasingly concerned about the potential for her not to get to DiL's (unrequested) home assessment...virus disruption/self-isolation and all that. Not an unreasonable concern, tbh.
So, for arguments sake...she can't make the journey....that leaves vulnerable DiL at home on her own (son can't take time off precarious employ) to accept an unaccompanied stranger (maybe male?) into her flat.
Is that what happens?
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
If none of you can be there, call them up and say it has to be rearranged. They have no legal right of entry so it’s not like they can barge the door down.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Thanks for that.
As ever the decision making is so fucking asymmetric...she really needs the assessment to happen...now 6 weeks & counting without £ after last (24 month) award ended.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
Thanks for that.
As ever the decision making is so fucking asymmetric...she really needs the assessment to happen...now 6 weeks & counting without £ after last (24 month) award ended.
I’d be inclined to double check with your local law centre or CAB if there isn’t ant money she can have in the interim. I feel sure there is something you can get but can’t remember exactly.
Part-timah
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope the tory voters of this country are seriously culled. Never should anyone have to go through this hell.
BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
Sorry to hear that Topcat. I hope everyone around him,including yourself, are coping ok.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Sorry to hear that TopCat.
Just a couple of points to the thread in general:
- there is a thread in politics all about helping people through the assessments, which has top tips and urbs ready to help
- on the use of covert recordings, provided a transcript of the highlighted portion is supplied, with the portion to be used, the recording can be used. Case law has stated that although the manner of the recording may be distasteful, it may be the only way to gain certain evidence. Just don't send in 40 hours of recordings and expect the tribunal to listen to them.
Just a couple of points to the thread in general:
- there is a thread in politics all about helping people through the assessments, which has top tips and urbs ready to help
- on the use of covert recordings, provided a transcript of the highlighted portion is supplied, with the portion to be used, the recording can be used. Case law has stated that although the manner of the recording may be distasteful, it may be the only way to gain certain evidence. Just don't send in 40 hours of recordings and expect the tribunal to listen to them.
This - and the thing about the tribunal is an important point. My mum used to sit on a tribunal - not benefits-related but similar in terms of process - and they get a huge amount of paperwork to go through for each hearing. It's as well to make their jobs as easy as you can, firstly to keep them on side and secondly to minimise the chance of their missing something important.
Hi I also have been to these assessments with clients I used to work for a charity.
The other person is right for some reason going looking clean and tidy means they judge you and can knock off points. Holes in shoes and dirty clothes gets a better response. Which is disgusting when people have genuine illnesses that they have to resort to this. They dont take into account some people have carer who keep them clean.
Also maintaining eye contact, talking too much means you come across as though you are fine.
One client said they had a dog and it came back in the report she walked him up to an hr every day. She never said that. So don't mention pets.
They watch you in the monitor in the centre to see how far he can walk, if they chat and can communicate their needs.
They ask questions such as how did you get here today?
What are your hobbies? to catch you out.
How far can you walk around a supermarket? Even if you say you can't. They then say but if you could how far do you think you can walk. And put in the report you can walk around a supermarket.
Can you use a computer?
Can you use a phone?
Do you deal with your own banking/ big decision?s
And they mark you down for this if you can.
One client said they have epilepsy and lie on the couch. The tv is on. The report later said the client has no problems watching Tand lost points.
Can you usecooker or a microwave?
Some assessors come across as a friend. They aren't. They have targets of how many people they have to reject a week.
It's not all a horror story, some are nice. My advice is take notes of what is said. If your friend struggles to answer a question he can look to you to help him answer it or provide a more detailed answer. Don't go in to reams of unnecessary stuff. Just give an example per question of how it affects him daily in real terms. Specific examples are a good way to make him real to the assessor. For example his copd makes him cough till he is sick a least 3 times a day if that what happens. Know the form and what he wrote.
If rejected do a manditory reconsideration and if that fails go to appeal as 7 out of 10 win. Good luck
The other person is right for some reason going looking clean and tidy means they judge you and can knock off points. Holes in shoes and dirty clothes gets a better response. Which is disgusting when people have genuine illnesses that they have to resort to this. They dont take into account some people have carer who keep them clean.
Also maintaining eye contact, talking too much means you come across as though you are fine.
One client said they had a dog and it came back in the report she walked him up to an hr every day. She never said that. So don't mention pets.
They watch you in the monitor in the centre to see how far he can walk, if they chat and can communicate their needs.
They ask questions such as how did you get here today?
What are your hobbies? to catch you out.
How far can you walk around a supermarket? Even if you say you can't. They then say but if you could how far do you think you can walk. And put in the report you can walk around a supermarket.
Can you use a computer?
Can you use a phone?
Do you deal with your own banking/ big decision?s
And they mark you down for this if you can.
One client said they have epilepsy and lie on the couch. The tv is on. The report later said the client has no problems watching Tand lost points.
Can you usecooker or a microwave?
Some assessors come across as a friend. They aren't. They have targets of how many people they have to reject a week.
It's not all a horror story, some are nice. My advice is take notes of what is said. If your friend struggles to answer a question he can look to you to help him answer it or provide a more detailed answer. Don't go in to reams of unnecessary stuff. Just give an example per question of how it affects him daily in real terms. Specific examples are a good way to make him real to the assessor. For example his copd makes him cough till he is sick a least 3 times a day if that what happens. Know the form and what he wrote.
If rejected do a manditory reconsideration and if that fails go to appeal as 7 out of 10 win. Good luck
farmerbarleymow
I'm Petee's spirit animal
Couldn't agree more. A place I worked at before used the same company for occupational health reports, and you could say any old shit and they'd immediately believe you and put it in the report. They never asked for medical evidence from the GP (probably because it cost money). The difference between my experience of them and people going through benefits assessments is too stark to explain other than they have these targets to reject a proportion of claims.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
Sorry to bump this thread as couldn’t find the mega one. Someone I am supporting has their PiP assessment over the phone tomorrow. They want to record it, haven’t to my knowledge requested recording already. If they record it, I assume it’s better to not say anything and accept they can only use the recording for their own benefit, as if they tell them they are recording, likelihood is appointment will be stopped? They’ve waited months for this appointment so won’t want to delay it.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That's what we did.
It did give the reassurance that, if needed, we'd have verbatim for the appeal.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
And the recording could also form the basis for "contemperaneous notes" which are, AFAIK, perfectly admissible at appeal.
