Hefty Premier Inn hotel coming to central Brixton

[ViolentPanda]

Among other things, not managing the almost inevitable problems you'd get if a couple of flats in a residential block are continually rented out for a few nights at a time to (for example) stag night groups - noise at very unsociable hours.

Also, if you're sharing a flat with a few friends for just a few nights, you don't often notice or complain that repairs or structural improvements need doing, while long term tenants would be more likely to complain about low water pressure, noisy pipes, or even request a rent reduction for a family sized flat on the 5th floor without a lift.

It doesn't help that rent in Berlin is very low (even now) compared to Paris or London, so holidaymakers are less likely to raise an eyebrow if a landlord decides to charge the top end of reasonable for renting an apartment. Again, not good news for local longterm tenants.

^^^^This.
Unfortunately, German landlords (especially the small ones, which is the majority) are not yet wise to enforcing "no stag/hen groups" rules etc, and the other, longer-term residents, end up bearing the brunt of the nuisance that causes, as well as the rising rental prices.

 

[teuchter]

Among other things, not managing the almost inevitable problems you'd get if a couple of flats in a residential block are continually rented out for a few nights at a time to (for example) stag night groups - noise at very unsociable hours.

Also, if you're sharing a flat with a few friends for just a few nights, you don't often notice or complain that repairs or structural improvements need doing, while long term tenants would be more likely to complain about low water pressure, noisy pipes, or even request a rent reduction for a family sized flat on the 5th floor without a lift.

It doesn't help that rent in Berlin is very low (even now) compared to Paris or London, so holidaymakers are less likely to raise an eyebrow if a landlord decides to charge the top end of reasonable for renting an apartment. Again, not good news for local longterm tenants.

This is all fair enough.

I am of course aware that the "touristen raus" thing in Berlin has various strands and is not just about rental prices. I heard recently about a group being chucked out of a Berlin bar (that they had booked for a birthday or something) because they were talking English (they weren't even Brits, mainly Turkish I think). whether this is anti-stag-party-dumbing-down or snobbery or xenophobia is another discussion. I can foresee the potential for similar reactions in Brixton. Of course the opening of a holiday inn is not the same as lots of apartments being run as holiday lets but the former could mark the beginning of Brixton being seen as an attractive "tourist" area and be followed in years to come by the latter. It also suggests that we may start to see stag parties etc basing themselves in Brixton and that surely has the potential to affect local nightlife and so on.

As for the Holiday Inn not replacing housing, that's true but it would be occupying space that potentially could be housing instead. Yes I know not necessarily ideal for housing but there are plenty of people living in central Brixton at the moment.

 

[Crispy]

I lived on the high street for 2 years. Wouldn't do it again. Not the right place for housing at all IMO.

 

[Greebo]

I lived on the high street for 2 years. Wouldn't do it again. Not the right place for housing at all IMO.

Having stayed sporadically with somebody living in Streatham High road, I'm with you there. Very bad air quality, disturbed sleep because of street noise in the small hours, next to nowhere to park, nowhere to leave domestic rubbish, except next to the litter bins... On the plus side, it was handy for transport, the launderette, shopping, takeaways and the pub. But it didn't really make up for the disadvantages (including the arse of a landlord).

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is all fair enough.

I am of course aware that the "touristen raus" thing in Berlin has various strands and is not just about rental prices. I heard recently about a group being chucked out of a Berlin bar (that they had booked for a birthday or something) because they were talking English (they weren't even Brits, mainly Turkish I think). whether this is anti-stag-party-dumbing-down or snobbery or xenophobia is another discussion. I can foresee the potential for similar reactions in Brixton. Of course the opening of a holiday inn is not the same as lots of apartments being run as holiday lets but the former could mark the beginning of Brixton being seen as an attractive "tourist" area and be followed in years to come by the latter. It also suggests that we may start to see stag parties etc basing themselves in Brixton and that surely has the potential to affect local nightlife and so on.

it's highly unlikely to spark a "tourist aparments" boom in Brixton, simply because the daily or weekly rate would need to be higher than the rate a landlord can get from an A.S.T. In fact the day or weekly rate would need to be so high as to be ridiculously unaffordable. The issue with Berlin is that rents are so cheap that landlords of holiday apartments can mark up, and still be perceived as cheap relative to the cost of holiday apartments in most of the rest of Europe's capitals.

As for the Holiday Inn not replacing housing, that's true but it would be occupying space that potentially could be housing instead. Yes I know not necessarily ideal for housing but there are plenty of people living in central Brixton at the moment.

To "potentially be housing" (i.e. permanent housing with all the planning rules and environmental regulations that implies) would require a sweeping change of use, whereas using it for hotel accommodation is partially a "return to original use", given that from what I recall, part of the original pub also let rooms on a per night basis.

 

[equationgirl]

I've just checked the Malmaison site and guess what? No details at all of disabled access. And no option on the website to request it when booking a room. Again.

A bit short sighted of them because (shock, horror, and amazement) even disabled people sometimes want a dirty (or clean, for that matter) weekend.

I know they do try and preserve old buildings - the one in Glasgow isn't wheel chair friendly because it's listed and has two front steps. Also, the lift doesn't access the older part of the building, although the modern addition is better, at least there is a lift in that section. Edinburgh I can't remember and the last I heard they were trying to sell it. Oxford is mostly the former jail building, and has internal stairs, especially by the front desk.

It is very short-sighted of them not to be more disabled compliant

 

[Greebo]

I know they do try and preserve old buildings - the one in Glasgow isn't wheel chair friendly because it's listed and has two front steps. Also, the lift doesn't access the older part of the building, although the modern addition is better, at least there is a lift in that section. <snip>

It is very short-sighted of them not to be more disabled compliant

I can sympathise with that, but there isn't even any information about access (or lack of it) on their site. I really don't want to turn up somewhere with a semi-crashed husband, only to find out that if he gets as far as the room he won't even be able to use the shower because it's over the bath!

 

[equationgirl]

I can sympathise with that, but there isn't even any information about access (or lack of it) on their site. I really don't want to turn up somewhere with a semi-crashed husband, only to find out that if he gets as far as the room he won't even be able to use the shower because it's over the bath!

Most of them are, certainly in the ones I've stayed in. They love roll-top baths with showers over them. Not so great for disabled people at all.

 

[Greebo]

Most of them are, certainly in the ones I've stayed in. They love roll-top baths with showers over them. Not so great for disabled people at all.

And VP's not even a wheelchair user, so if he'd find that type of bathroom impossible, you can imagine how many others it excludes.

 

[equationgirl]

And VP's not even a wheelchair user, so if he'd find that type of bathroom impossible, you can imagine how many others it excludes.

I know most of the times I stayed there (was nearest my work in a previous job) it was fine but a couple of times getting in and out of the bath was tricky on bad pain days.

 

[teuchter]

it's highly unlikely to spark a "tourist aparments" boom in Brixton, simply because the daily or weekly rate would need to be higher than the rate a landlord can get from an A.S.T. In fact the day or weekly rate would need to be so high as to be ridiculously unaffordable.

That's not true; holiday lets exist all over London. Whether or not a landlord can get a better rate from a holiday let depends on the location and how attractive that location is to tourists - who will have different criteria than an A.S.T. I'd say it's likely that Brixton will become more attractive to tourists over the coming years and the existence of a Holiday Inn would probably reinforce this.

 

[Crispy]

I know they do try and preserve old buildings - the one in Glasgow isn't wheel chair friendly because it's listed and has two front steps. Also, the lift doesn't access the older part of the building, although the modern addition is better, at least there is a lift in that section. Edinburgh I can't remember and the last I heard they were trying to sell it. Oxford is mostly the former jail building, and has internal stairs, especially by the front desk.

It is very short-sighted of them not to be more disabled compliant

There's conflict between the Disability Discrimination Act (and its associated standards, which are actually very good, designed with input from organisations represnting all types of disability) and Listed building status. Unfortunately for disabled people, but fortunately for the fabric of listed buildings, the DDA has some pretty weak get-out clauses that allow non-compliant buildings as long as there is an appropriate "management strategy" in place to overcome the issues. This can be as basic as "staff will bodily carry disabled people up the historic stone steps". Which is against the spirit of the DDA, ie. equal access for all, regardless of ability.

As you say, modern extensions to listed buildings will attempt to right the wrongs that historic buildings can't help but make. However, it can often mean circuitous routes from reception, down a corridor, up a ramp, into the new wing, then into the (DDA compliant) lift, up to your floor, then back down a corridor, round the corner, up a ramp etc. etc. before you get to where you want to be. Compromise sucks.

 

[teuchter]

It doesn't just apply to listed buildings (I think) ... same get-out clauses can be argued for buildings where conversion would be really difficulty, eg a small shop with a couple of steps off the street, where achieving level access would mean half the floor space being taken up with ramps and lifts etc.

 

[Crispy]

It doesn't just apply to listed buildings (I think) ... same get-out clauses can be argued for buildings where conversion would be really difficulty, eg a small shop with a couple of steps off the street, where achieving level access would mean half the floor space being taken up with ramps and lifts etc.

Yep. My office is a complete DDA disaster zone. Compliance would require knocking half the building down, and it's a non-remarkable 20th century brick and concrete building.

 

[Greebo]

There's conflict between the Disability Discrimination Act (and its associated standards, which are actually very good, designed with input from organisations represnting all types of disability) and Listed building status. Unfortunately for disabled people, but fortunately for the fabric of listed buildings, the DDA has some pretty weak get-out clauses that allow non-compliant buildings as long as there is an appropriate "management strategy" in place to overcome the issues. <snip>Compromise sucks.

To clarify, I'm not demanding that everywhere is made completely and perfectly DDA compliant. However, I would like more hotels and restaurants to explicitly state on their websites etc how accessible they are so that I don't waste time, money, and energy trying to get there in the first place!

 

[Crispy]

Can't argue with that

 

[colacubes]

To clarify, I'm not demanding that everywhere is made completely and perfectly DDA compliant. However, I would like more hotels and restaurants to explicitly state on their websites etc how accessible they are so that I don't waste time, money, and energy trying to get there in the first place!

Or actually to have an idea of what really is accessible. I've booked events at hotels before that have proclaimed that they are accessible and the reality is that the entrance is:

• through the kitchen in a service lift;
• a slope for wheelchairs so steep it's like the Alps;
• a slope that's not actually wide enough to accommodate some chairs.

These days I'd never book an event anywhere without visiting to look myself first. Which is a rather sad state of affairs

 

[Greebo]

Or actually to have an idea of what really is accessible.
<snip>
These days I'd never book an event anywhere without visiting to look myself first. Which is a rather sad state of affairs

FWIW a few years ago I was asked to give some suggestions of where a family (including a young adult wheelchair user) could go in London on a budget. The list I came up with after several weary hours was ridiculously short, culture heavy, and included my having to tell them to buy their sandwiches in local bakeries, as long as the disabled member of the party didn't mind waiting outside.

 

[colacubes]

FWIW a few years ago I was asked to give some suggestions of where a family (including a young adult wheelchair user) could go in London on a budget. The list I came up with after several weary hours was ridiculously short, culture heavy, and included my having to tell them to buy their sandwiches in local bakeries, as long as the disabled member of the party didn't mind waiting outside.

Shit innit I never realised quite how bad it was until my current job, but disability access in London is an absolute joke

 

[Greebo]

Shit innit I never realised quite how bad it was until my current job, but disability access in London is an absolute joke

People wonder why the honeymoon was in Berlin. Duh, because of the crazily unnatural wish to have what passed for an almost normal life for most of a fortnight (not possible in much of London). Something which is only possible with better access and information about it. That's over £1,000 which London missed out on, just from the two of us.

 

[ricbake]

In the paper work attached to the planning application for this hotel I haven't come across any connection with the Holiday Inn - The first place I saw the association was via the Brixton Blog where the number of rooms seemed to increase from 118 to 188, these details it seem to have been repeated from there. Perhaps they could comment?

Holiday Inn looks like a franchise operation and these people run the "Holiday Inn Express" Stratford - http://www.tlc-group.net/ - Truth Love and Compassion Group ...... Can't find any association with the Landlord or Architect or from them back to any other Holiday Inn Franchise.

The other thing that still seems to be an open question is how come no one seems to have seen the planning notices that apparently were put up in January this year, when they also put a notice in the Lambeth Weekender, does anybody regularly see copies of this?

I am not in anyway against the idea of a Hotel for Brixton but I am against the idea of poorly concieved project being squeezed into that area to give a huge profit to some developer and a headache for the neighbours.

 

[Greebo]

The other thing that still seems to be an open question is how come no one seems to have seen the planning notices that apparently were put up in January this year, when they also put a notice in the Lambeth Weekender, does anybody regularly see copies of this?<snip>

I see it, but don't always take a copy and read it. Certainly not in January. *adds reading the planning applications section of the local press to things I really need to start doing a lot more often*

 

[Gramsci]

There is currently a planning enforcement enquiry in progress as there were complaints about noise from as far away as Brixton Hill. The venue has some pretty stringent noise conditions but they cannot be enforced because the venue is not being used in line with its original planning permission. The only option is for planning to invite them to apply for A4 permission or take enforcement action to stop the use altogether.

Yes I can hear it from my end of Brixton. They have parties on roof on Sundays all day. As you said they got permission for a private members club and small hotel then turned it into full on nightclub. One thing about a large chain hotel is that they are unlikely to behave like this. I spend some of my time dealing with noise and disturbance caused by small businesses which does affects residents in central Brixton.

 

[Gramsci]

I do think a Brixton hotel would be really useful. In the past loads of people have asked on here if there is one. The 'London Hotel' on CHL, as far as I can tell, is used as a hostel and from a couple of reports I've heard, very seedy.

It is in practise a hostel. I now at least one of the street drinkers lives there. Which is fine but it was meant to be hotel.

 

[Gramsci]

In the paper work attached to the planning application for this hotel I haven't come across any connection with the Holiday Inn - The first place I saw the association was via the Brixton Blog where the number of rooms seemed to increase from 118 to 188, these details it seem to have been repeated from there. Perhaps they could comment?

Applications often make promises of who will run premises etc. But they are promises. The main thing is to get application through. There is no gaurentee it will be run by large chain. That would look good on application but may not happen in practise.

All that is agreed is a planning application for a hotel. The owner may not act on it for a while. Or may change there mind and put in application for something else. They have 3 years to act on it. But they could also renew application.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

....holiday lets exist all over London. Whether or not a landlord can get a better rate from a holiday let depends on the location and how attractive that location is to tourists - who will have different criteria than an A.S.T. I'd say it's likely that Brixton will become more attractive to tourists over the coming years and the existence of a Holiday Inn would probably reinforce this.

I agree. There's already plenty of holiday lets in Brixton, including one on my road. It's not unreasonable to expect some of the new property being built locally ('Brixton Square' etc) to end up used for this purpose too. Brixton is a popular destination. Groups/families/stag dos etc increasingly seem to want to have a "living area/space" for a weekend/holiday rather than stay in a hotel. Both holiday lets and a new hotel are likely to bring more tourists to Brixton which a) could be really good for some local businesses, but b) could also lead to more chain businesses and homogenisation.

 

[Rushy]

A midnight alcohol licence application has been submitted by Premier Inns and Whitbread for the new hotel site.

 

[TruXta]

A hotel bar in Brixton? I never.

 

[Rushy]

A hotel bar in Brixton? I never.

i.e. the project is moving ahead, you twonk.

 

[TruXta]

i.e. the project is moving ahead, you twonk.

I got that ya twat! I was just commenting on how unreal it sounds - a hotel bar in Brixton.