Hamlet v Hastings Utd, Isthmian Premier Division, Saturday 19th August 2023
- Thread starter Nivag
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AveryDave
Well-Known Member
The return of Paul Barnes, Charlie Grainger, Dominic Vose and Michael Phillips gives us the potentially heady concoction of a spurned manager wanting to prove the club wrong, a returning 'keeper determined that none shall pass, a playmaker who doesn't understand why he's not in the League and... Michael Phillips.
But more importantly for the Hamlet, a chance to build on Tuesday's good result and get the season off to a very solid early start.
Tantalising doesn't come close.
But more importantly for the Hamlet, a chance to build on Tuesday's good result and get the season off to a very solid early start.
Tantalising doesn't come close.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
For anyone who's never been to Pilot Field, it's one of those wonderfully quirky old fashioned grounds that visiting supporters enjoy, but it must be a total money pit. Much like the old Champion Hill, it's just so antiquated it's going to be hard to upgrade without a total rebuild, or relocation to a completely new site. It remains to be seen whether the new owners will better placed to secure the club's future than the outgoing regime.
As for the match, they are of course managed by our most recent former manager Paul Barnes, while their team includes former Hamlet players Charlie Grainger and Dominic Vose, plus recent loanee Michael Phillips.
They've drawn their first two matches, 1-1 at home to Cheshunt then 0-0 at Whitehawk, for whom another former Hamlet player Jack Dixon was sent off after just 10 minutes. Despite Whitehawk suffering another red card with more than ten minutes remaining Hastings were unable to make their two man advantage count.
I hope Alfie Allen's injury won't keep him out tomorrow, especially with Mark Ricketts and Ryley Scott having been out on Tuesday. I thought Alfie was very impressive in his first ever men's league match against Canvey.
As for the match, they are of course managed by our most recent former manager Paul Barnes, while their team includes former Hamlet players Charlie Grainger and Dominic Vose, plus recent loanee Michael Phillips.
They've drawn their first two matches, 1-1 at home to Cheshunt then 0-0 at Whitehawk, for whom another former Hamlet player Jack Dixon was sent off after just 10 minutes. Despite Whitehawk suffering another red card with more than ten minutes remaining Hastings were unable to make their two man advantage count.
I hope Alfie Allen's injury won't keep him out tomorrow, especially with Mark Ricketts and Ryley Scott having been out on Tuesday. I thought Alfie was very impressive in his first ever men's league match against Canvey.
EDC
A Slightly Less Invisible Cyber Fan These Days
I went to last years pre-season friendly, it’s a lovely old ground.
pompeydunc
Well-Known Member
And I thought they said they wouldn't be throwing money around and would build it up slowly?! Very impressive signing for step 5.
They said they were looking to move up.a little as and when and to do the community club bit. They've started doing a bit on the community side to be fair.I think the playing side has moved forwards in their thinking for two reasons.
1. They got over 500 in the FA Cup. If they want to keep a fair chunk of those they need to win. I doubt they expect that sort of gate so quickly
2. A combination of the introduction of play offs and several of the better sides last year seemingly taking a step back this season. (Jersey, Knaphill and Colliers Wood are all candidates for that.) It's looking like this could be a good year to get into the play offs. I think most people thought Farnham and Jersey were nailed on to go up. People who saw Jersey at Alton on Tuesday are telling me they think Jersey are substantially weaker than last season, albeit on the evidence of one game seem and a home defeat by Tooting.
1. They got over 500 in the FA Cup. If they want to keep a fair chunk of those they need to win. I doubt they expect that sort of gate so quickly
2. A combination of the introduction of play offs and several of the better sides last year seemingly taking a step back this season. (Jersey, Knaphill and Colliers Wood are all candidates for that.) It's looking like this could be a good year to get into the play offs. I think most people thought Farnham and Jersey were nailed on to go up. People who saw Jersey at Alton on Tuesday are telling me they think Jersey are substantially weaker than last season, albeit on the evidence of one game seem and a home defeat by Tooting.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
I thought he was selling himself short dropping to our level, never mind the Combine Harvester League. He's still only about 25/26. Apparently he got injured (again) in Hastings' penultimate pre-season game and had already been released before the opening league match. I think he's originally from Croydon and was at Palace up to U21 level, so he's probably well acquainted with Zaha and the other new owner (whose name I've forgotten) who's part of the Palace backroom staff.
I was browsing the Hastings social media earlier and they only have 4 of last season's squad. I thought Phillips looked like their best new recruit on paper. The new consortium is headed by the current director of football, who is also a previous first team manager. It has the look of people who know and care about the club stepping in to fill a void, rather than new blood bringing new investment to push the club to another level.
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Christ, this is abysmal.
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
I honestly dont know where to begin. It took us the entire game to work out that if you give Vose room he'll dictate the game. He doesn't like any aspect of defending and yet we never put him under any pressure. To give him a second free kick exactly the same distance out after he'd buried one 10 mins earlier is beyond dreadful. We looked lethargic, dropped way too deep, and generally gave a team that hadn't scored a goal from open play all season 2/3s of the pitch with little pressure.
The midfield is a mess - Dover must be mighty relieved Shokunbi bombed them out. I have no idea what he's in there to do. I can't recall a single meaningful contribution from him or Allen. If Ricketts is wiped out for 2 games after playing 90 mins a week ago then he is part his sell by date. The last thing we want is a passenger after the various clowns of last season. The midfield recruitment looks really worrying to me.
Tumkaya looks suspect under high balls and is clearly inferior to Gyebi and Parry. Have absolutely no idea why it took us 75 mins to get Clifton on.
Fair play to both Krasniqi and Wanadio who didn't stop all game. Pingling tried too, but he's clearly a striker not a winger. The rest were poor. Very, very interested in the Hak interview after that. Really poor.
The midfield is a mess - Dover must be mighty relieved Shokunbi bombed them out. I have no idea what he's in there to do. I can't recall a single meaningful contribution from him or Allen. If Ricketts is wiped out for 2 games after playing 90 mins a week ago then he is part his sell by date. The last thing we want is a passenger after the various clowns of last season. The midfield recruitment looks really worrying to me.
Tumkaya looks suspect under high balls and is clearly inferior to Gyebi and Parry. Have absolutely no idea why it took us 75 mins to get Clifton on.
Fair play to both Krasniqi and Wanadio who didn't stop all game. Pingling tried too, but he's clearly a striker not a winger. The rest were poor. Very, very interested in the Hak interview after that. Really poor.
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Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Intriguing to see what Barnes can do when he doesn't have a squad full of dickheads, too (Vose aside).
Bugpowder Dust
Well-Known Member
Sad times when the highlight was seeing Vose balls up the penalty to seal the game.
That was my first game of the season and fair to say not what I was expecting to watch.
Our hero keeper couldn't set the wall for the winner, if he had we might have pushed them for to the end for the 3 points.
As mentioned above, they just seemed to want it more. Really disappointing.
That was my first game of the season and fair to say not what I was expecting to watch.
Our hero keeper couldn't set the wall for the winner, if he had we might have pushed them for to the end for the 3 points.
As mentioned above, they just seemed to want it more. Really disappointing.
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tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
Compared to the many decades we were in it before you mean?
EDC
A Slightly Less Invisible Cyber Fan These Days
Saved me typing it.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
My personal thought at the start of the season was that returning to the National League would probably be a 2 year project at best, given that 2nd place guarantees nothing. It may take several more years, or may never happen in my lifetime, but I see no reason to be any more pessimistic than that right now. (Just for the record, we had the same number of points and a worse goal difference after 3 matches of our last promotion season.)
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
Wasn’t there today due to work but seems to a lot of “Rule of One” in these early games. An excellent goalkeeping performance saved us a mailing it seemed on day one but after that we’ve had the highs of Tuesday’s big win followed by some serious lows of today’s “capitulation” (one word précis based on reading comments). But if it was as bad as it sounds any manager worth his salt should be able to identify the problems early and start tweaking the team so we’re back on the right path sooner rather than later. Personally I never expected the immediate bounceback the more idealistic supporters have confidently predicted but like the pragmatic among us feel we should be challenging for a play off position thanks to the resources at our disposal. Time will tell.
Cat Daisy
Well-Known Member
Not a good day for the number 12 but the whole defence looked a bit slow. Not a good minute for the keeper who get psyched by Hastings 7 and then went walkabouts right before the winning free kick. Cracking penalty save though. Didn’t test Grainger much. And what was the stupid nonsense between Ming and Vose at the end?
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Please tell me Ming levelled him?
Al Cunningham
Brockley Hamlet
Yes a lot was wrong today. I was trying to convince myself missing 4 or 5 starting 11 was a factor ...but not so sure. Hopefully get Ricketts, Scott, and Romaine back soon , Parry back from suspension and Gyebi in the first 11. I think 1 v 4 would have been a fairer reflection. Missed pen, goal disallowed , hit the post, Ming last ditch tackle spring easily to mind.
Apart from Ming our backline is very slow and an easy option for Hastings to run against them with their fast front 2. There is also a lack of pace in midfield and they never got it together today and upnfront Mills often left isolated. With Ruddy having a bit of a mare (opposite of last week) apart from the pen save there is work to do all all areas of the team.
Apart from Ming our backline is very slow and an easy option for Hastings to run against them with their fast front 2. There is also a lack of pace in midfield and they never got it together today and upnfront Mills often left isolated. With Ruddy having a bit of a mare (opposite of last week) apart from the pen save there is work to do all all areas of the team.
Trimmy
Lives for Charking Picken
I'd be happy to never leave, mid-table and an occasional cup. But that in itself brings problems for recruitment and a poor run can send you down, so I accept that competing for promotion is the default objective. For me, as a fan, the excitement of winning (cups, promotion) is the icing on the cake of watching a team progress and improve, solve problems and entertain with the style of football.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
Probably just Ming being Ming.
The second half in particular was a big disappointment after we'd wrestled our way back into the game following a slow start. Based on Paul Barnes' time at Dulwich, I expected Hastings to (a) look to play out from back and (b) attack us hard from the start in search of an early advantage. Until the wheels fell off, there were a lot of matches during his spell when we were in front within 15 minutes.
Cem Tumkaya seemed to have a torrid time, and struggled for pace against their muscular centre forward Femi Akinwande. It was his first start at this level, with Allen and Pingling also only playing lower level or development football before this season. Maybe that was a bit too much inexperience down the spine of the team.
The first goal and all the set pieces that caused us problems came from people running at Tumkaya in the inside left channel. He was mugged after just 6 minutes when Akinwande closed him down and muscled him off the ball before accelerating into the box to slot past Ruddy. We created a well worked equaliser midway through the half when Ming got free on the right and chipped a beautifully weighted cross to the far post for Mills to score with a trademark header.
I fully expected us to take control of the second half after that, but the opposite happened and we were fortunate not to lose more heavily in the end. Dominic Vose was always a gifted ball player but he rarely caused our opponents as many problems as he caused us in that second half. He pinged two direct free kicks straight into our net from a similar spot, the first of which was disallowed for an off the ball infringement, then earned a penalty by running at our defense, which he took himself only for Ruddy to make a spectacular save in tipping it onto the crossbar.
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Totally agree re: Barnes setting his sides out to attack very early. I thought that was very clearly their plan yesterday. What I really didn't get is how quickly we changed our shape because of it.
Wasn't there on Tuesday night but by all accounts we played really well in a narrower system, with Pingling up front with Mills and Wanadio running about causing havoc behind. A sort of 4312, from what I could make out.
We started yesterday with the same shape, but Barnes's all-out attack seemed to put us in a flap, and we changed to a 4231 system, which put Pingling and Wandio out wide, and brought the ineffective Shonkunbi closer to Mills. Although it eventually blunted Hastings a bit more, I thought it totally negated our own assets.
Felt we should have backed ourselves and a system that caused problems for a decent side on Tuesday night for a bit longer.
AveryDave
Well-Known Member
A few players missing and we've got strikers out wide, defensive minded midfielders being asked to push forward, and three defenders on the bench - the decision to sign all those full-backs looks weirder all the time.
Also underlines why we need depth in the playing set up outside the first team squad.
Also underlines why we need depth in the playing set up outside the first team squad.
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Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
Yes, it looked like we tried to change as little as possible from Tuesday, with only the enforced change of replacing the suspended Parry with Tumkaya and Gyebi taking the spare place on the bench. I understand Ricketts was fit to play but not selected. I thought Shokunbi seemed rather anonymous
Wanadio seemed to start as a "number ten" again, behind Mills and Pingling, but once he and Pingling moved wide in a front three to negate Hastings on the flanks it left Mills rather isolated. Rather than trying to reshape the starting XI, a bolder move for me would have been to bring Scarlett or CBB off the bench for Tumkaya or Shokunbi, either switching to a back three, or having a natural wide player in the midfield.
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