Getting drugs into festivals (avoiding security, sniffer dogs etc)

[Looby]

That is fucking ugly as hell. Just because something is functional, it doesn't mean it has to look it.

 

[wiskey]

Not shock - just bemused observations when their friends wander off to leave them to it whilst they end up incapable or worse. If they looked after each other properly, there may be less problems. Christ - 30 years in this game and a little NOS/CO2 poisoning is hardly likely to shock! It was funny when the travellers turned up with the bottles on sack trollies and the lines formed. After Symmetry there was a lovely guy, ended up being sectioned because he took everything he could and his mates ran and left him behind. Family festival and this guy was naked, crawling around in circles, throwing the welfare staff and medics away. Even better when they found out he had done it before at another festival and they didn't think to look after him. 21 years old. Sad.

I didn't (and never have) go to SGP, it's just never appealed.

I know a lot about looking after people at festivals though, and about the states they get themselves into.

Nothing has changed this year.

 

[Orang Utan]

'Manbag' idiocy.

 

[rover07]

Sounds more like Paranoid Garden Party! Just leave stuff in your tent and stop worrying about it.

 

[pesh]

it was fucking awful on many many levels…

Security went to the site - it was staff/security anyway but in the staff area. And no, nobody came out to help her. Which is pretty common these days. Following a scream around a dark site is almost impossible. But this is what happens these days - nobody steps up to help someone else - when we train students in self defence we teach them to shout "fire" - because you get a better response than shouting "help" or "rape". Sad.

by staff area do you mean crew camping area? and this happened on Friday night? what sort of time? that sounds a bit strange as the entire crew area was heaving all Friday night, lots of people hiding in their tents, having parties or just avoiding the constant rain… crew bar was heaving, people milling around everywhere… don't believe someone could be screaming in there for a few minutes without anyone but security going to check on it. it was a small area, i spent the entire night in it with a few mates and none of us heard or saw anything.

 

[Looby]

Sounds more like Paranoid Garden Party! Just leave stuff in your tent and stop worrying about it.

You shouldn't leave valuables in your tent at any festival. The amount of 'sorry, wrong tent' excuses I've heard when I've been at Glastonbury is unbelievable. Some of them might be genuine but I had a very distinctive, large tent with a big stag picture on the front so I refuse to believe anyone thought it was theirs. The one time I've been robbed was the year I got so shitfaced I didn't put my stuff in my sleeping bag. My purse was under my head and my camera was in my bag. We were so pissed they went through the porch and our clothes in the bedroom bit whilst we were sleeping.

It's not paranoia, you have to either keep your stuff on you or use property lock ups if provided.

 

[moose]

The one girl who told me it was bit ordinary festival goerie blamed herself to some extent. By posting photos on social network about how awesome it is has attracted ordinary folk was her theory.

Just listen to yourself! What do you mean?

 

[jimbarkanoodle]

reading some pretty negative comments about thefts, attitude etc (worse than usual)- Global gathering was cancelled this year, maybe the undesirables decided to go to SGP instead? same weekend

 

[Cloo]

Now festivals are harder to break into, are we just seeing the people who used to break in and nick stuff taking up 'security' roles 'cos they know there'll be a lot of wet-behind-the-ears kids with lots of good loot on them who they can intimidate/nick from and then vanish if necessary?

 

[wiskey]

Now festivals are harder to break into, are we just seeing the people who used to break in and nick stuff taking up 'security' roles 'cos they know there'll be a lot of wet-behind-the-ears kids with lots of good loot on them who they can intimidate/nick from and then vanish if necessary?

Nah for several years now it's been the norm that would-be tent robbers etc just pay for a ticket like normal, arrive on site like normal, rob their way around the tents on thurs night (when everyone has maximum cash/drugs and minimal awareness) to fund the cost of the ticket and then have a good time for the rest of the w/e or until they get bored. You don't need to work security at all.

ETA: I'd actually go as afar as to say security are on the whole better than they were 5 years ago (based on my average of 6 festivals a summer).

 

[rich!]

I feel slightly less bad about spending 5 1/2 hours on Friday getting rained on on the hard shoulder of the M11, and the rest of the weekend drinking in 'nam and playing Ingress.

 

[Looby]

Nah for several years now it's been the norm that would-be tent robbers etc just pay for a ticket like normal, arrive on site like normal, rob their way around the tents on thurs night (when everyone has maximum cash/drugs and minimal awareness) to fund the cost of the ticket and then have a good time for the rest of the w/e or until they get bored. You don't need to work security at all.

ETA: I'd actually go as afar as to say security are on the whole better than they were 5 years ago (based on my average of 6 festivals a summer).

Yep, that's my experience as a punter too. Certainly at Glastonbury, you don't seem to hear of robberies after Thursday night.
I didn't see the crime figures for this year, was crime down?

 

[wiskey]

I feel slightly less bad about spending 5 1/2 hours on Friday getting rained on on the hard shoulder of the M11, and the rest of the weekend drinking in 'nam and playing Ingress.

oh ... umm

 

[tbtommyb]

I didn't feel it was especially sketchy (or hear about that rape ) but it was my first time at SGP and pretty disappointing.

the people seemed as i was warned, mostly poshos, didn't get a hippy vibe from very many at all. Somewhere like Boomtown does get a bit of the same but then it also has its wreckhead core who help make the festival. I've never seen such a dirty campsite either. non-stop laughing gas everywhere. decent enough toilets to be fair though.

It all felt a bit too spaced out and it was quite hard to know where to go for what kind of music etc. Theme-wise it was mostly some marquees and tents from Glastonbury's Green Fields dotted around. We'd been told that it had lots of little random things hidden all over but I didn't get that at all (unless they were super well hidden). Places seemed to open and close fairly randomly.

Over the weekend there seemed to be piss all response to the mud, which was pretty dangerous in some bits. There were big mounds of earth left dotted around on the Sunday, which maybe were intended to go on the mud, but not actually used.

i could go on, but basically Boomtown seems to offer a hell of a lot more (music, decor, stuff to get involved in, story etc) for a quite a bit less, with fewer wankers. i'd only go back if i got a free ticket that didn't require me to do anything and it was good weather for the whole weekend.

quite disappointing though it was still mostly fun i suppose. chainsaw brassica were good and lost horizons on the sunday was awesome.

 

[deadringer]

reading some pretty negative comments about thefts, attitude etc (worse than usual)- Global gathering was cancelled this year, maybe the undesirables decided to go to SGP instead? same weekend

I went to Global a few years ago, never again. Was the worst festival I've been to for a nasty undercurrent of troublemakers, lots of Brummie gangs of lads shouting at each other all night, pissing up my tent, falling into it. Two people i was with had phones stolen, one had a chain ripped from his neck in an arena.


Got back from SGP yesterday, there was a bit of an aggy atmosphere at times in the Little Horrors tent, mainly from the balloon sellers. Once we'd moved away it was fine, just a case of being aware really. Heard about a fair bit of tent robbing, we by chance had set up near a guard tower and was ok.
Was a weird mix what with all the extremely well spoken youngsters!

And my god the rain! Incessant Friday and Sunday, one massive sea of sludgy mud. It didn't ruin the festival but certainly made the days hard. Felt a bit sorry for the organisers, all that effort in a beautiful location and the outside things to do were pretty much washed out.


ETA - Security

Despite the horror stories getting in to the festival was fine, no different to any other I've been to. All that nonsense about needing drivers license or passport to get in was bollocks. 4 of us went, only one had their bag checked for extra booze, luckily the 3 people with the excess booze got through ok. The 'drug detection' dog looked like someones pet!

 

[Gromit]

lost horizons on the sunday was awesome.

I went before lunch on sunday and it was dead compared to previous mornings. Bad weather and post saturday night lay-ins I guess.
Good for a nice peaceful spacious sauna but not so good for them.

According to their Facebook page though the bad weather killed them finacially and they are now asking for donations to pay the bills.
They could probably do with a token capitalist to help them maximise their income.

 

[shaman75]

Went for the first time this year. Some friends went last year and seemed bowled over by it, so booked some earlybird tickets. Was our first proper long weekend and festival for a while, as we have a 2 and a half year old (left at home with the grandparents), so we were always going to enjoy ourselves.

I also thought the drug dog looked a bit shit and noted it was operated by security, not police, but I heard from one of our group that a friend of theirs got sat down in front of and was given a choice, whereupon they handed over some coke and went in. I'm guessing the dog could sit down in front of just about anyone and achieve a similar result though.

The fence, while big, doesn't seem to be particularly secure, as another acquaintance of our group just brought a ladder on the friday and jumped over it. No real patrols along it that I saw and once you're over the one, you're in. Although I did see some police checking a couple of wristbands one night. The place was riddled with police too, which feels a bit wrong imo. I've heard they're all friendly etc... but I wouldn't want to have a smoke in front of one. They seem to wear a specail uniform that nakes themn look more like security than police too, except for the word 'police' on it. So I was already feeling that I'd perhaps missed the magic and it had got too big for it's own good.

Also, on the first eve, we went to get some food and have a tour about as it got dark and came back to find one chair missing from our site, together with the two picnic blankets on it. Was left under a gazebo surrounded by tents. That left a bitter taste, but we put it behind us. Shouldn't have left it out really and it was a bit tired. Remarkably, we later found the chair next door, broken, among the detritus of the young kids who pitched up by us. We actually lent them mallets and stuff. Twats. We did say something, but left it there with them apparently completely unaware who was in their campsite the night before and moaning about their destroyed gazebo.

Nonetheless, we had a cracking weekend, especially once I'd sourced some wellies. The mud was very hard going on Saturday night once it had started to dry out, especially on a huge dose of acid. But it freed up again with a bit more rain on Sunday. Bit too much deep house for my liking and some toilets in or near venues would have made the queues to get back into the Colosseum and the trudge through mud and rain less of an issue. The mud was weird. Just seemed to sit on top of the grass. Looked a bit like very wet clay. I actually think they could have just scraped it off on the fields. Hard to know what they could do other than that. They were putting down woodchips in the woods, but the little trailer they used held such an insignificant amount that it just disappeared. There were a lot of sorry looking traders around too, especially towards the outer edges. The camping supply shop by the entrance must still be chuckling about the weather and the run on wellies and waterproofs though. They didn't even open on Sunday.

Didn't really have any problems with people apart from being asked why I had a torch at night by some idiot and being shouted at to move by a moody twat in the Hospital Records takeover, but I did have a fellow camper who felt some people were a bit racist towards him at some points. Overall, I also didn't meet many folks, which I found a bit strange for a festival, especially as we were out dancing a lot, particularly in the day. Seemed to be something missing from the vibe. Could have been the weather, or the crowd. Or maybe I'm just getting too old . The site was a tip when we left too and throughout the dance areas, with bottles and cans sticking to your feet.

I don't have previous years to compare with, but it did feel a bit ruined by success to me and others with us also seemed to think it was a changed atmosphere. Not planning to return.

 

[TheInsider]

I went before lunch on sunday and it was dead compared to previous mornings. Bad weather and post saturday night lay-ins I guess.
Good for a nice peaceful spacious sauna but not so good for them.

According to their Facebook page though the bad weather killed them finacially and they are now asking for donations to pay the bills.
They could probably do with a token capitalist to help them maximise their income.

Yeah - sadly the concept of "free festivals for the people" has been slammed. The overheads are insane now - every one needs money and the planning routines are ridiculous. I was involved in three this year at the pre-planning stage that ended up being cancelled in the face of stupid demands from councils, licencing and police - we were literally told at the Safety Advisory Groups that they did not want the festivals and would make it awkward without actually saying "no". I think that they will find their application for next year goes the same way - they will either need to downsize to limit this, or take a year off. Sad state of affairs. As soon as you get to a certain size you need to hand it over to professionals - which involves sponsorships and deals and with that comes stricter conditions of exposure to "problems" for the brands.

 

[TheInsider]

Went for the first time this year. Some friends went last year and seemed bowled over by it, so booked some earlybird tickets. Was our first proper long weekend and festival for a while, as we have a 2 and a half year old (left at home with the grandparents), so we were always going to enjoy ourselves.

I also thought the drug dog looked a bit shit and noted it was operated by security, not police, but I heard from one of our group that a friend of theirs got sat down in front of and was given a choice, whereupon they handed over some coke and went in. I'm guessing the dog could sit down in front of just about anyone and achieve a similar result though.

The fence, while big, doesn't seem to be particularly secure, as another acquaintance of our group just brought a ladder on the friday and jumped over it. No real patrols along it that I saw and once you're over the one, you're in. Although I did see some police checking a couple of wristbands one night. The place was riddled with police too, which feels a bit wrong imo. I've heard they're all friendly etc... but I wouldn't want to have a smoke in front of one. They seem to wear a specail uniform that nakes themn look more like security than police too, except for the word 'police' on it. So I was already feeling that I'd perhaps missed the magic and it had got too big for it's own good.

Also, on the first eve, we went to get some food and have a tour about as it got dark and came back to find one chair missing from our site, together with the two picnic blankets on it. Was left under a gazebo surrounded by tents. That left a bitter taste, but we put it behind us. Shouldn't have left it out really and it was a bit tired. Remarkably, we later found the chair next door, broken, among the detritus of the young kids who pitched up by us. We actually lent them mallets and stuff. Twats. We did say something, but left it there with them apparently completely unaware who was in their campsite the night before and moaning about their destroyed gazebo.

Nonetheless, we had a cracking weekend, especially once I'd sourced some wellies. The mud was very hard going on Saturday night once it had started to dry out, especially on a huge dose of acid. But it freed up again with a bit more rain on Sunday. Bit too much deep house for my liking and some toilets in or near venues would have made the queues to get back into the Colosseum and the trudge through mud and rain less of an issue. The mud was weird. Just seemed to sit on top of the grass. Looked a bit like very wet clay. I actually think they could have just scraped it off on the fields. Hard to know what they could do other than that. They were putting down woodchips in the woods, but the little trailer they used held such an insignificant amount that it just disappeared. There were a lot of sorry looking traders around too, especially towards the outer edges. The camping supply shop by the entrance must still be chuckling about the weather and the run on wellies and waterproofs though. They didn't even open on Sunday.

Didn't really have any problems with people apart from being asked why I had a torch at night by some idiot and being shouted at to move by a moody twat in the Hospital Records takeover, but I did have a fellow camper who felt some people were a bit racist towards him at some points. Overall, I also didn't meet many folks, which I found a bit strange for a festival, especially as we were out dancing a lot, particularly in the day. Seemed to be something missing from the vibe. Could have been the weather, or the crowd. Or maybe I'm just getting too old . The site was a tip when we left too and throughout the dance areas, with bottles and cans sticking to your feet.

I don't have previous years to compare with, but it did feel a bit ruined by success to me and others with us also seemed to think it was a changed atmosphere. Not planning to return.

The drugs dogs are private security - and do the same course as the police. A lot of handlers are ex military and ex police, so don't be lulled into a false sense on that one. If it sits, you get a chat. The three option questions is one that we worked on and one that the police are generally happy to go with. The only caveat is if you are under 18 (a child) or you are carrying way over personal use. We explain that there will be a question asked with three outcomes. The question will be "do you have any drugs on you, as indicated by the dog" - you can go "Oh, bugger me, yes, forgot about that, here it is" - hand it over, walk on through. You can say "no" - if it's found you can have your entry refused. if you say "yes" and then more is found, it is more likely to end up with you being handed over and refused because you tried to bypass the solution. Some security will also suggest that you "drop" the stuff and take two steps to the left, at which point it will be "discovered" in five minutes. They will generally ask for ID which will go in the evidence bag but this does not go to the police - it gets logged and then the stuff gets destroyed with none of the information going forward. Surprised the police moved inside to check stuff - they normally don't venture past the gates as that's the whole point. May have been in response to the issues on site though and the theft of loads of wristbands. Again. Feeling a very dark vibe at most festivals this year already, and I'm five into the season. Dunno why, seems to be a very young, aggy bunch of people attending and not the chilled out dance people we are used to. Choice of music seems to be shite this year - which probably accounts for the idiots. A lot of security are very wary about the season and the problems that are coming up.

 

[rich!]

oh ... umm

Hopefully that marks the last stage of this summer's Rambo garage epic tour

 

[pesh]

Surprised the police moved inside to check stuff - they normally don't venture past the gates as that's the whole point. May have been in response to the issues on site though and the theft of loads of wristbands. Again. Feeling a very dark vibe at most festivals this year already, and I'm five into the season. Dunno why, seems to be a very young, aggy bunch of people attending and not the chilled out dance people we are used to. Choice of music seems to be shite this year - which probably accounts for the idiots. A lot of security are very wary about the season and the problems that are coming up.

Police have always been on site and not just at the gates from at least 2006 when i first went and probably before, this year they spent most of their time bombing around in a buggy flying a skull and crossbones flag and some kind of flotation device in the shape of a crocodile, helping an acid casualty get to welfare and delivering firewood to a bonfire, the security looked soggy and slightly more miserable than usual but certainly not in fear of their lives… it was a miserable festival but it didn't feel like Mad Max at any point, more like an obnoxious frat party.

As soon as you get to a certain size you need to hand it over to professionals - which involves sponsorships and deals and with that comes stricter conditions of exposure to "problems" for the brands.

thats bollocks as well, there are still plenty of large sized independent festivals doing very well, and the ones that do have corporate sponsorship and are being run by so called professionals tend to have as many or possibly more problems than the ones that don't… there was a gang rape at Reading last year, riots at Leeds most years.

i've been to 5 or 6 UK festivals this year and it's very much felt like business as usual at all of them.

 

[TheInsider]

Interesting - I've had calls from suppliers asking for staff to replace those who have walked off site. This years seems to have a large amount of no-shows as well - averaging almost 20% of those booked on. Don't know why that is either at the moment. Usual volunteer stewards shambles where they turn up then disappear into the crowd with their free tickets and bin their deposits - but retaining their staff wristbands. On the usual social groups there is a higher level of disatisfaction amongst security relating to conditions, welfare, wages, etc based on the issues they are finding. A fair few hospitalised at various events this year already too. I think you are right about the obnoxious frat party element for SGP - but others like Mutiny, Wireless, T in the the Park have definitely had a presence of complete, out and out dickheads who don't seem to understand festivals. It's not like the old days of "breaking into the festival" for fun - there's a darker side of it. We expect fence jumpers and Heras crawlers but there are other groups that are not like that.

From a planner perspective, it's harder working with smaller boutique festivals that have grown from the TENS limit of 5k people into the next stage of licensing. The needs and costs increase but there needs to be investment as well - which can sometimes lead to difficulties in putting up ticket prices, dealing with catering and booze exclusives, etc. Where 5k is easy from a "mates can do this" aspect, once it gets bigger they need to include professional safety officers and teams, look more closely at traffic management, security, welfare, police liaison, local council requirements. We go to SAGs quite regularly and the next step planning is daunting. Some take a year out to recover, refund and look at what they really want to do with their festivals.

We've definitely seen a more violent aspect to festivals from certain groups, but by the same token we have seen a better working relationship with organised groups like gangs who have turned to NOS and touting. They meet the demand by staying inside the rules and it's actually a better relationship now. Like when we used to have dealers we recognised on site and who would actively come and tell us if someone else was dealing (ie taking their business or damaging their rep for quality).

I think when you wedge a load of humanity together there will be crime, it's natural. There just seems to be an approach of "it's OK, it's a festival" this year to justify what is happening. May be that the disparate security companies are talking more to each other and staff are moving the information around, but from the outside looking in it's an odd season. I've got a smaller festival this weekend so that will be interesting. High level of fence breaches, fairly high drugs issues but generally less powders and pills, more herbal, but lots of under 18s. We'll see how that one goes. VFest is not one I am looking forward to in Essex this year if I am honest. Money and hours will be high, but I think the conflict will be high as well.

 

[pesh]

Wireless and T and V Festival are all massive corporate festivals run by the so called professionals though, which in my experience have always attracted all the arseholes leaving the smaller independents relatively twat free. and for what its worth, the limit on a TEN is 500 not 5000, you can sometimes blag it and get 2 or 3 TENS on one site by having one for each arena, but you're never going to get up to 5000 on TENS.

as i understand it you need proper licensing in theory for anything over 500, in reality more like anything over about 1500 to 2000, all of which need security, medics, fire inspections, possibly police on site, and all the rest, however it's when you go over something like 17,000 that you start having to pay for these services, which is where everything can come unstuck if for example the police don't want the event to take place and so stick in a massive bill for their services the organisers can't afford.

 

[JTG]

Nah for several years now it's been the norm that would-be tent robbers etc just pay for a ticket like normal, arrive on site like normal, rob their way around the tents on thurs night (when everyone has maximum cash/drugs and minimal awareness) to fund the cost of the ticket and then have a good time for the rest of the w/e or until they get bored. You don't need to work security at all.

ETA: I'd actually go as afar as to say security are on the whole better than they were 5 years ago (based on my average of 6 festivals a summer).

^^ truth ^^

Security crews are nothing like as dodge as they were even when I started volunteering at festivals 10 years ago. OK so I may be more experienced than I was and have an idea what's going on but there used to be some right cowboys around. Not the case now so much

 

[TheInsider]

Apologies - brain farted from a Premises Licence to a TENS... been working with a pub that is running on a TENS and it's on my brain. Especially as he is a lovely guy but has no concept of how it all works - like closing time!

The costs are mad - having run some quotes together for these things, the level of cover required explodes and the rates go up as well. The trouble is that you get undercutters - to the extent that I know that G4S offered to do one event for free as a marketing objective, but pay all their staff nmw to match this. You really do get what you pay for. The biggest hidden cost is traffic management - to even disrupt traffic or temporarily stop up a road, the costs get stupid. The ones we had all got caught on that - they kept asking for more and more road management until it reached the point it became unviable. They played the game and won.

The safety has to be in place and to a certain extent you can massage that with skillsets, but most stewards are totally unqualified (as opposed to those who are trained in spectator safety, crowd management, etc). The cost shavings are always there and there has to be a balance - but there will always be problems. We find the smaller jobs are better - much friendlier, less idiots, less appeal I suppose. Bigger audience, bigger attraction. This weekend is smaller which I prefer. We get to know the punters more and work better with them and then we all seem to function to block off the idiots.

 

[Ted Striker]

Interesting input on this thread TheInsider , appreciated

(Doesn't change my opinion that there's way too many dickheads in the UK (SGP/small) festival security 'scene' but still )

 

[TheInsider]

I agree completely. I am hoping to work with a 5k festival next year on a different approach. A more "joined up" link between us, welfare, medics, organisers, crew etc. The security and safety will still be there, but it has to be realistic and usable to meet the primary function of putting on an event which people want to come to and feel safe at. Some companies have this but not all and not enough. There are some very good guys and girls out there who actually just want things to be safe and not to have to force open a portaloo to cut someone down, or deal with the girl in her tent who has been attacked. We want to be able to work with the punters at all levels, so that they are not seeing security as a police extension. We know it's possible but the balance between "it's a festival" and "it's about safety" has to be met. The game of getting stuff in will be played for ever and that's not even the problem. All I really want is the stuff that's coming in to be safe and the people who use it to look after each other like they used to. There are some awesome welfare teams out there who have made the adjustment and it can be done. It's about doing it but retaining the identity of the event and not having to market it out as a corporate thing. Personally, I don't even like VIP tickets as a concept - you are either there or you aren't! You will always need to big boys on security to sort stuff out, but a more intelligent approach is needed to deployment - don't throw them at every argument, but people have to be aware that there are times when that response is needed against an overall safety target.

 

[TheInsider]

...and we will ban sodding man bags...

 

[TheInsider]

it was fucking awful on many many levels…

by staff area do you mean crew camping area? and this happened on Friday night? what sort of time? that sounds a bit strange as the entire crew area was heaving all Friday night, lots of people hiding in their tents, having parties or just avoiding the constant rain… crew bar was heaving, people milling around everywhere… don't believe someone could be screaming in there for a few minutes without anyone but security going to check on it. it was a small area, i spent the entire night in it with a few mates and none of us heard or saw anything.

Thursday night, early Friday. Remembering that a whole box of crew bands was stolen as well. Pretty shoddy accountability there. People can scream for a long time before anyone comes near them - done the experiment a few times when training College students in self defence and situational awareness. Until they should "Fire" - then they get attention. Awful for the person concerned no matter how it happened.

 

[Gromit]

Thinking back to the coke / ket situation. Imagine how much better if it would be if there were no sniffer dogs. People brought their own safer drugs along and there were testing stations like in dutch dance clubs.