Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

General Dulwich Hamlet chat

;)
Sexist songs at Orient

quote from the article" The song that has been sung for years and years and years and goes, “Oh East London, is wonderful, Oh East London is wonderful, full of XXX, XXXXX and Orient, Oh East London is wonderful”. Not the worst song, but not one I can find any merit in singing in 2014 either"

note Clapton FC response East London is full of pie and mash (and of course our own Dulwich Hamlet "South London is full of bear baiting.....

So glad we at Champion Hill ditched the original - and embraced bear baiting last season - It was done with humour and lack of rancour

The main article is here

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifesty...-song-means-i-m-walking-away-my-football-club
I've, personally, never like the 'tits, fanny and...whoever' song-simply because I've never been into tits and fanny! ;)

But seriously, just because it's 'laddish'; 'just having a laugh at the game'; and so on, doesn't make it the right thing to sing. But you cannot just tell people to stop singing it...without an alternative really. And that's where subtle changes like 'bear baiting' or 'pie & mash'come in...

Though how long before the animal rights or vegetarian brigade get on your case is another story... ;)

On the subject of the 'tits and fanny' version...without a doubt this WILL be heard of again, especially as our crowds, hopefully, continue to grow. People won't realise that it shouldn't be sung, and it's an old, catchy, traditional football song. It's down to us all to repeat it if & when it's aired with the 'bear baiting' line, to 'educate' others, for lack of a better word.
 
Gotta say as well, in the old-fashioned Leyton Orient (& elswehere) version I'm FAR MORE offended by 'East London is wonderful' than it being full of tits and fanny... ;)
 
Hmmm we were supposed to be announcing the new signings via our own website, but it seems the Slop got there first. Dammit.

Anyway, I'm pleased to confirm that the 12th Man scheme is funding Laurent 'Dave' Hamici and Marlon Patterson! As mentioned many of the new players were on trial and when Gavin worked out who he wanted to keep, the first team budget came up a little short. So we have stepped in and will be providing the additional funds to ensure we keep hold of Hamici and Patterson.

As always a big thank you to everyone that has contributed to the 12th Man scheme.
 
;)
I've, personally, never like the 'tits, fanny and...whoever' song-simply because I've never been into tits and fanny! ;)

But seriously, just because it's 'laddish'; 'just having a laugh at the game'; and so on, doesn't make it the right thing to sing. But you cannot just tell people to stop singing it...without an alternative really. And that's where subtle changes like 'bear baiting' or 'pie & mash'come in...

Though how long before the animal rights or vegetarian brigade get on your case is another story... ;)

On the subject of the 'tits and fanny' version...without a doubt this WILL be heard of again, especially as our crowds, hopefully, continue to grow. People won't realise that it shouldn't be sung, and it's an old, catchy, traditional football song. It's down to us all to repeat it if & when it's aired with the 'bear baiting' line, to 'educate' others, for lack of a better word.

I thought we had replaced the t*ts, f**ny etc line with.... "Whits, Willie and Joe" years ago??
 
That is true, proper Old Skool song that I'd forgoteen about. But the 'tits & fanny' one was still sung...
Some people did it at the palace game, a quick glare and a round of bear bating, a strong mention and disapproval of the size of his badge (wearing a palace polo, although seen at dulwich home games a few times)and beard growing capabilities soon sorted them out, everyone laughed and got back to bating bears...
 
As for bear baiting, is this as in the blood sport? Might as well suggest that south london is full of stabbings.
 
with respect
of course its sexist - ask any woman football fan (ask you mum maybe or your sister or wife)
and yes its boorish
with respect
of course its sexist - ask any woman football fan (ask you mum maybe or your sister or wife)
and yes its boorish

Saying of course it is, is not much of a well laid out argument. And neither is saying ask someone from a list of female relatives.

Stating that any area is full of tits or fanny is not sexist. It is not discrimatory, which is what i understand sexism to represent, discrimination against women.
 
And while I am annoyed, singing songs about Palestinian liberation as mentioned in the article, obviously does not have the power to offend anyone (sarcasm).
 
myself as a man i feel im completely the right person to have an opinion on this (sarcasm) if your talking about a place being great due to body parts that women have and therefore objectifying women then it is pretty sexist imo (not sarcasm) As i said im in the best place to discuss this as a man obvs (another bit of sarcasm) :D
 
Last edited:
Getting the feeling 000 is not a Dulwich Hamlet Fan (just passing)

or he would know we have held banners supporting Jewish anti fascists 43 Group
 
myself as a man i feel im completely the right person to have an opinion on this (sarcasm) if your talking about a place being great due to body parts that women have and therefore objectifying women then it is pretty sexist imo (not sarcasm) As i said im in the best place to discuss this as a man obvs (another bit of sarcasm) :D

Objectifying women IS sexist. Whilst expressing a likeness for such body parts, does not necessarily objectify the women attached to them, it is very possible that it may be the intention.

Unquestionably, it is a boorish song but it is not unquestionably sexist without examining the attitude of those singing it towards women.
 
if standing in solidarity with dead children offends someone then i think its them who needs to check themselves.

Palestinian liberation songs do not necessarily equate to solidarity with dead children. However, you would maybe have a better idea of the content of these songs. Sadly, even if this were so, people on both sides of the argument have the capacity to be offended by anything on the other side.

Even sadder is that there are dead children on both sides.
 
Getting the feeling 000 is not a Dulwich Hamlet Fan (just passing)

or he would know we have held banners supporting Jewish anti fascists 43 Group

I never understand if your politics has any real depth to it, I am pretty sure it is not possible to be for both Israel and Palestine, but I am sure it is possible to be against both of them.
 
im sure there are other forums for this. :D
Objectifying women IS sexist. Whilst expressing a likeness for such body parts, does not necessarily objectify the women attached to them, .
in this case yes it does
Unquestionably, it is a boorish song but it is not unquestionably sexist without examining the attitude of those singing it towards women.
its not just about the attitudes of who's singing them its about how the song has an affect on the people around you. whether that be offending people or perpetuating sexist attitudes.
Palestinian liberation songs do not necessarily equate to solidarity with dead children. However, you would maybe have a better idea of the content of these songs. Sadly, even if this were so, people on both sides of the argument have the capacity to be offended by anything on the other side.

Even sadder is that there are dead children on both sides.
I dont want to get into a debate on this whole issue but when you look at the death toll on either side wanting it to stop is not bad a thing and expressing that view from the side of the oppressed (in any conflict or situation) is not a bad thing, and if that does offend someone they have to check themselves as they should just want it to stop too.
I never understand if your politics has any real depth to it, I am pretty sure it is not possible to be for both Israel and Palestine, but I am sure it is possible to be against both of them.
you can be supportive of people who being oppressed no matter what religion or race they are.... thats a pretty simple concept... although a lot of people for some reason find it hard to grasp...
 
im sure there are other forums for this. :D

in this case yes it does

its not just about the attitudes of who's singing them its about how the song has an affect on the people around you. whether that be offending people or perpetuating sexist attitudes.

I dont want to get into a debate on this whole issue but when you look at the death toll on either side wanting it to stop is not bad a thing and expressing that view from the side of the oppressed (in any conflict or situation) is not a bad thing, and if that does offend someone they have to check themselves as they should just want it to stop too.

you can be supportive of people who being oppressed no matter what religion or race they are.... thats a pretty simple concept... although a lot of people for some reason find it hard to grasp...

This is all true :)
 
Getting the feeling 000 is not a Dulwich Hamlet Fan (just passing)

or he would know we have held banners supporting Jewish anti fascists 43 Group
I'm sorry, but WHY exactly would he know that? That was at one home game against Wingate & Finchley last season.
He might be a completely new fan, or wasn't at that game.
And I class myself as being reasonably 'politically knowledgable' (whatever that might mean!) yet I only found out about the 43 Group when I stumbled across the excellent book written by one of their former members a few years ago.

Surely we should be about 'educating' fans, and simply not having what might be deemed 'offensive chanting'. By saying someone might not be Hamlet fan is offensive to them...and seems like something you are throwing at them just because they won't accept your argument.

As for songs with regard to the Palestine war...if it had a relevance to Dulwich Hamlet, or our opponents, then I would sing along. But I am a Dulwich Hamlet supporter, so-call me old fashioned if you wish-I want to sing a song in support of my team, generally.

By becoming too political, for the sake of being political, rather than being relevant, we become 'just another Clapton'...and that simply isn't going to happen.

EDITED: This is the book I mean: http://www.newsfromnowhere.org.uk/books/DisplayBookInfo.php?ISBN=0903738759
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry, but WHY exactly would he know that? That was at one home game against Wingate & Finchley last season.
He might be a completely new fan, or wasn't at that game.
And I class myself as being reasonably 'politically knowledgable' (whatever that might mean!) yet I only found out about the 43 Group when I stumbled across the excellent book writeen by one of their former members a few years ago.

Surely we should be about 'educating' fans, and simply not having what might be deemed 'offensive chanting'. By saying someone might not be Hamlet fan is offensive to them...and seems like something you are throwing at them just because they won't accept your argument.

As for songs with regard to the Palestine war...if it had a relevance to Dulwich Hamlet, or our opponents, then I would sing along. But I am a Dulwich Hamlet supporter, so-call me old fashioned if you wish-I want to sing a song in support of my team, generally.

By becoming too political, for the sake of being political, rather than being relevant, we become 'just another Clapton'...and that simply isn't going to happen.

This is all very correct too :)
 
By becoming too political, for the sake of being political, rather than being relevant, we become 'just another Clapton'...and that simply isn't going to happen.
well of course not cause we're much bigger than them ;-) BANTAR ~JOKES LADS WAHEY.
#funknotpunk
 
its not just about the attitudes of who's singing them its about how the song has an affect on the people around you. whether that be offending people or perpetuating sexist attitudes.

This is the point really isn't it. What songs like that say is that this isn't intended to be a welcoming environment for women. And it does that regardless of the intent of anyone singing it (which is likely to be 'just because we've always sung it' in most cases IMO.)

I can understand why people kick against the objections to an extent. At big clubs there's been a move from the fairly anarchic old terraces to a really sanitised, restricted environment. It's good that they're now 'family friendly' in some ways but there's no question a lot of what made watching football great has been lost along the way.

Singing a different version of the song isn't that happening though IMO. It's not a rule imposed from above, it's fans choosing to make women welcome. And anyway, having our own wittier version has to be an improvement on a pretty dimwitted old song.
 
Back
Top Bottom