Garden Leave

[Petcha]

So I've been put on Garden Leave for the first time in my career after a bit of a meltdown with senior idiots at work and mounting tension.

I took a week off and went away and am now back in London and bouncing off the walls, I do actually enjoy working. It seems there's jobs available, but having never been in this position I don't know if I'm allowed to do so. Anyone else been through this? My debts are mounting so I'd rather just start working. This is the line from the final email which I think might scupper my plans.

Subject to you signing the agreement that I sent you through ACAS by early next week, you will receive your normal salary in May and June and in July’s payroll you will receive your normal salary for 1 and 2 July, plus the ex-gratia payment.

As is normal protocol with all leavers from the company I wish to remind you that you are still bound by your contractual terms and conditions of employment until the end of your garden leave on the 2 July 2024.

Do I really have to sit around until July?? I can't afford to go away again really so will have to stay in my little flat for all this time. Also, do I tell recruitment agencies I'm on GL or is that a bad look?

 

[moochedit]

I doubt they would care unless it was for a direct competitor. Are you a union member? If so ask them for advice.

 

[Petcha]

No, my role doesn't really have a union I don't think. I assume any new employer would ask for a P45 though which could be the stickler. I dont think that'll be sent till July.

 

[moochedit]

No, my role doesn't really have a union I don't think. I assume any new employer would ask for a P45 though which could be the stickler. I dont think that'll be sent till July.

There is a form you can sign if you don't have the p45. You would go an an emergency code until you can get the p45.

 

[nogojones]

the 2nd of July is only a month and a half away. By the time you've applied for a job, been interviewed etc.. that time will likely be up. If you do interview somewhere, just tell them that your earliest start date would be July 3rd, because of notice periods and whatever. That's not a wild inconvenience for them, it's normal.

 

[Petcha]

the 2nd of July is only a month and a half away. By the time you've applied for a job, been interviewed etc.. that time will likely be up. If you do interview somewhere, just tell them that your earliest start date would be July 3rd, because of notice periods and whatever. That's not a wild inconvenience for them, it's normal.

So don't mention the garden leave? is there a bit of a stigma attached there?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You don't have to tell recruiters anything other than that you're available to start from 3 July.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the 2nd of July is only a month and a half away. By the time you've applied for a job, been interviewed etc.. that time will likely be up. If you do interview somewhere, just tell them that your earliest start date would be July 3rd, because of notice periods and whatever. That's not a wild inconvenience for them, it's normal.

Yeah, very normal. Notice periods can be up to three months.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So don't mention the garden leave? is there a bit of a stigma attached there?

Why mention it? You're leaving your current job on 2 July and will be available to start from then. That's what they need to know.

I assume you would lose your pay if you took a job before then? I would try to treat it as a month and a half of paid leave. Nice time of the year to have it.

 

[nogojones]

So don't mention the garden leave? is there a bit of a stigma attached there?

I don't know what your compromise agreement says, but I imagine it sounds like you've not been sacked, but are in essence resigning, so it shouldn't be an issue. I take it your reference has agreed wording?

 

[Elpenor]

don’t worry about not having a P45, you’ll fill in a starter declaration for any new job and it’s common to not have a P45 until some time after starting a new job depending on when you’re paid

 

[Petcha]

I don't know what your compromise agreement says, but I imagine it sounds like you've not been sacked, but are in essence resigning, so it shouldn't be an issue. I take it your reference has agreed wording?

Yes, they mentioned in the final letter that if any potential employer came knocking for a reference they would say I had resigned. Which I did.

Thanks Elpenor, good tip. I'm just gonna do it. I can't around for all this time and there's work available immediately.

 

[MickiQ]

I don't think you can start another job until your Garden Leave is up but there is nothing to stop you looking just tell any would be employer that your start date will be 3 July onwards (as nogojones suggested). That's hardly any different from if you were just looking to leave anyway. Unless you've been fired for something actually criminal then references usually only consist of
"We confirm that Petcha was employed by Shitbags 'R' Us from start date to end date and left of their own accord"
Most companies are scared witless of being sued for a bad reference be it from the leaver or the new employer.

 

[Silas Loom]

When did it stop being gardening leave?

 

[maomao]

I worked for a rival to the company that got rid of me during my gardening leave but I had reason to believe they didn't give a shit.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I'm not sure about the legal position - may be worth seeking advice on that.

I'd say that technically you are still employed by old employer until 2 july, so you'd not be allowed to sign on the dole until then.

Subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer or HR person, and it's been a long time since i was a union rep, i think it may depend on whether your old contract says you can do other work while employed by them. if it does, and you do something that's in breach of contract, technically speaking, they could sue you - although think they would have to prove actual damages.

but you mention an ex gratia payment (presume this is in lieu of redundancy / any other settlement) - they might be within their legal right to withhold this if you don't stick to your side of the deal, which starting another job while you're still technically employed by them might be.

there's a lot of 'might' here, and depends of course how likely they are to find out, but it's a risk.

without knowing what sort of work you do and therefore what sort of employer it is, any new job may take that long to go from application to interview etc and then to start date. if you were in a job, they would have to respect your notice period, so no harm in starting applying now.

as others have said, not having a P45 isn't a big deal - there is a form you can fill in at new employer, but you'd not be able to declare that new job is your only job (if you start before 2 july) so you would go on emergency tax code, and you'd then have to sort the consequences out after old job technically ends, and this may take a bit of time. it will sort itself out eventually, but you could pay too much tax for a while.

and at the risk of stating the obvious, it may be worth thinking about what 'spin' you're going to put on this with potential new employers. saying bad things about former employer at an interview tends to be off-putting, like someone who goes on about what a ratbag their ex is when they are on a first date. it may all be perfectly true, but it tends not to go down well.

best of luck.

ETA - again, without knowing what you do, but are there any free / cheap short courses you could do either in the real world or online over the next few weeks? may be less boring (although sounds like it would be worth enjoying not doing anything for at least some of the time) and may look good to a potential employer.

 

[Sue]

So don't mention the garden leave? is there a bit of a stigma attached there?

Are you joking? I aspire to being put on gardening leave.

 

[Sue]

I don't know what your compromise agreement says, but I imagine it sounds like you've not been sacked, but are in essence resigning, so it shouldn't be an issue. I take it your reference has agreed wording?

IME it's generally used for people who're very senior and/or that the company's worried will take clients with them. It's very normal.

 

[Sue]

When did it stop being gardening leave?

It didn't AFAIA.

 

[The39thStep]

Quite a lot of urbanites don't seem to be in a union for whatever reason

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Quite a lot of urbanites don't seem to be in a union for whatever reason

is it worth the usual public service announcement that you can still join a union (with a very few exceptions like being in the armed services or old bill) even if there's no recognition agreement in your workplace, or even if you're self-employed (on the basis that most self employed people are in an unequal relationship with the organisation/s they are contracted by.)

although it's fair to say some unions are better than others at representing people who aren't in a large workplace branch type thing.

i was in an odd position a few years ago of working somewhere where the job i did (that had previously been done elsewhere) was not a 'recognised' job, although most within the organisation were.

 

[newme]

is it worth the usual public service announcement that you can still join a union (with a very few exceptions like being in the armed services or old bill) even if there's no recognition agreement in your workplace, or even if you're self-employed (on the basis that most self employed people are in an unequal relationship with the organisation/s they are contracted by.)

although it's fair to say some unions are better than others at representing people who aren't in a large workplace branch type thing.

i was in an odd position a few years ago of working somewhere where the job i did (that had previously been done elsewhere) was not a 'recognised' job, although most within the organisation were.

Last place I was at with a union managed to negotiate such bad pay deals my salary got caught by NMW increases despite not being remotely entry level. After 5 years the salary I was on is now illegal. That was 2 years ago.... wanted to join one 15 years ago but left thr company way vefore they were remotely due to vote to unionise.

Should I get the latest job I'll look into it but the last but one rep is a mate and he was disgusted with the pandering bullshit. Now milks them for consulting fees instead and can look after his sick wife.

 

[redsquirrel]

No, my role doesn't really have a union I don't think. I assume any new employer would ask for a P45 though which could be the stickler. I dont think that'll be sent till July.

As Puddy_Tat said - you can, and should, still join a union and have individual representation even if your union will not be recognised collectively.

 

[izz]

As Puddy_Tat and redsquirrel said, please consider joining a union even if your workplace doesn't acknowledge them. Why ? Because a union rep will have a firmer grasp of employment law than most employees and employers and in the (hopefully unlikely) event you get in trouble with your employer, or face redundancy or harassment they will be better placed to advise. They will have knowledge of other support systems as well. If you face disciplinary hearings, even if you're not allowed to take a union rep in with you, having a friend there who's wearing a union lanyard could be a powerful thing. Of course unions aren't perfect but even if you have an amazing relationship with your employer this could change in the event of company acquisition or redundancies. IME membership isn't expensive, please consider it

 

[Hollis]

Quite a lot of urbanites don't seem to be in a union for whatever reason

I was in a union for 5 years... Joined when there was a merger happening, and used them in a separate job when I was being bullied out (education sector... say no more).

I found them to be pretty helpful, but also realistic about what my rights were, and what the likely outcome was going to be if I chose to pursue things, based on their experience in similar cases.

 

[alex_]

As is normal protocol with all leavers from the company I wish to remind you that you are still bound by your contractual terms and conditions of employment until the end of your garden leave on the 2 July 2024

I suspect what this really means is that you are covered by confidentiality and disciplinary policies so “don’t be a dick”.

2nd July is only just over 40 days away, so I’d start job hunting.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I’ve been through the process twice now - first time for six months which was a great skive, this year for a month.

You are fine to look for work but the expectation is you’re not going to start or reveal any info until the end of the garden leave. As part of the process you should have been asked to speak to a lawyer to sign stuff off who’ll talk you through the contract your going to sign agreeing terms.

It’ll be fairly standard terms, usual legal bumf and what they expect from you. Just keep your head down, enjoy being paid for nothing and get some volunteer work or hobby stuff done in the meantime while looking for a new job.

 

[alex_]

Same, mine was that you couldn’t reveal the terms of the deal or speak to your ex colleagues other than to say you were leaving.

Picking up your issues with your ex-colleagues will almost certainly invalidate your deal.

 

[equationgirl]

No, my role doesn't really have a union I don't think. I assume any new employer would ask for a P45 though which could be the stickler. I dont think that'll be sent till July.

It won't be sent through until you're processed as an actual leaver, which will be July.

Start looking for alternative roles. No-one will be at all concerned that you're on garden leave, it happens a fair bit and it often happens once senior people or those in critical roles hand on their notice. So a new place wouldn't be worried.

Make sure the agreement they are sending through has a sample agreed reference attached for your review and approval. Also check if they will cover the cost of a lawyer's review of the document too.

 

[marty21]

I've only been on gardening leave once , I resigned from a Housing Association in 2005 , following a merger/takeover , the new boss was an idiot , suspended an excellent manager shortly after she took over, I had enough. When I handed her my notice letter , she said I could leave that day , I said I'd expect to be paid for the 2 month notice period , she said I would be, I asked for that in writing , she was very quick to give me the letter It was in May , I half expected them not to pay me , but left & had a lovely month off (I was paid) and after a month started speaking to Temp Agencies & got a gig fairly quickly.