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Frank Ryan, the Stasi, ‘East German Intelligence and Ireland 1949-90’ etc

DaveCinzano

WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Couldn't find any extant threads this would neatly fit into, so...

Just spotted this book, looks interesting, any takers?

...he frames the book using what one East German dismissed as distasteful “corpse diplomacy”: the farcical, on-again off-again efforts to repatriate the remains of the Irish republican Frank Ryan. The Limerick man fought in the Spanish Civil War on the republican side and moved to Berlin in 1940, where he died of pleurisy four years later.

East Berlin’s appetite for exhuming Ryan’s remains after the war were dealt a blow when it learned of his wartime contacts with the SS. Dublin’s interest in the business was equally low, given its embrace of the Hallstein doctrine, which accepted the Bonn administration of the West German federal republic as Ireland’s only legitimate German partner.

This diplomatic stance, combined with limited economic ties, meant that contacts between Ireland and East Germany were kept to a minimum. Even the celebrated playwright and poet Bertolt Brecht was refused permission to visit Dublin in 1953...

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/b...an-intelligence-and-ireland-1949-90-1.2068841

Anyone read it?
 
Why the fuck would you fight on the republican side and then move to berlin?????:eek:
Not really my field but I thought he was released to the Germans as part of a deal to get him out of jail in Spain ? I think he was then part of the German sponsored mission to return Sean Russell, the IRA Chief of Staff to Ireland, only Russell died on board the U-Boat. Not sure that's necessarily accurate - only remember it because we used to amuse ourselves bringing it up with troops out types back in the day :)

On both sides I'd guess it was typical nationalist "enemy of my enemy" stuff, (I know there were a couple of Nazi films about the heroic Irish struggle against the British), but yeah some Irish republicans (and some Catholics of course) did admire fascist efficiency and success.

Can't say the review sells that book though.
 
He was taken prisoner by Franco's men at the end of the war, who then handed him over to the Gestapo.

Pish.

That's about the most sanitized way you could possibly have put it. It suggests that he was somehow unwilling. He wasn't. He was happy to collaborate with the Nazis, including going on active service missions for them, until the end of the war.

Typical Irish rose-tinted hindsight romanticization of dodgy republican history bastid that you are.
 
On both sides I'd guess it was typical nationalist "enemy of my enemy" stuff, (I know there were a couple of Nazi films about the heroic Irish struggle against the British), but yeah some Irish republicans (and some Catholics of course) did admire fascist efficiency and success.

They did more than "admire" it. Some of them fought for it, including Ryan. Euphemism has no place here: he was a collaborator with the Nazis. Plaid Cymru weren't much better mind.
 
Euphemism has no place here:
Excellent. Can you do it in a Richard Burton accent ?

Roused from my Saturday morning torpor I've just done some superficial googling and as far as I can see he didn't do any "fighting" for the Nazi's and not all that much when he was collaborating with the Stalinists in Spain. Or was that just a euphemism :)
 
as far as I can see he didn't do any "fighting" for the Nazi's

It wasn't for want of trying though. He may not have fired a shot in anger, but he was actively involved in planning Nazi operations for the duration.

Not that one can really blame him, given his political assumptions. England's danger is Ireland's opportunity nicht wahr?
 
I didn't edit a damn thing. I quoted two words in the exact order you put them. "Typical Irish" - implying, as you were, that Idris2002 is a "typical irish" in his "romanticization" of republicans. I think that's fairly incontestable. And the chances of you getting an apology from me are zero.
 
I didn't edit a damn thing. I quoted two words in the exact order you put them. "Typical Irish" - implying, as you were, that Idris2002 is a "typical irish" in his "romanticization" of republicans. I think that's fairly incontestable. And the chances of you getting an apology from me are zero.

That shows only your own illiteracy. The adjective "Irish" modifies the noun "romanticizaton."

And the chances of you getting an apology from me are zero.

I'm well aware of that. But you still owe me one.
 
Oooooh Phil. You are a naughty boy, aren't you?

Frankly (pun intended), the notion of Idris2002 posting a "Typical Irish rose-tinted hindsight romanticization of dodgy republican history" is as laughable as your attempt to goad him with your accusation.
 
Can't say the review sells that book though.

Perhaps the very brief extract about Frank Ryan I quoted, no - but these bits have my interest:

...the bulk of Stasi information gathering on Ireland amounts to several folders of yellowing press cuttings. The few intelligence reports that exist are less interesting for their contents, often plagiarised from books, than for their sprinkling of factual and typing errors.

...he provides an intelligent and timely corrective to competing narratives on the Stasi that have emerged since the East German secret police was wound up, a quarter century ago...wielding his academic shears expertly, aan de Wiel trims the service down to size and strips it of lingering mystique. Which leads to the second achievement of his book: what he didn’t find in the 6,000 pages of Stasi files on Ireland, namely evidence that East Berlin had anything more than an observer’s interest in Northern Ireland affairs.

That puts the ball back in the court of many journalists, historians and writers in Northern Ireland to produce the evidence that their IRA-Stasi claims are more than wishful thinking.
 
Oooooh Phil. You are a naughty boy, aren't you?

Frankly (pun intended), the notion of Idris2002 posting a "Typical Irish rose-tinted hindsight romanticization of dodgy republican history" is as laughable as your attempt to goad him with your accusation.

How could I possibly be goading him? He's got me on ignore hasn't he?

Typical Irish disingenuous verbal ambiguity subliminated aggression stab-you-in-the-back bastid that he is.
 
1953 was of course not an unturbulent year in east german history, what with the june rising. so it would to me be no surprise if the internal situation in east germany had played some part in the refusal of a visa for brendan behan and quite possibly numerous others.
 
Tbf if you were handed from francos goons to the Gestapo
You'd be an enthusatic supporter of their plans on the grounds of not showing enough enthusiasm would be rather terminal,
 
At the end of the day, Ryan risked life and limb (wasn't he wounded at Jarama?) to fight Fascism in Spain - at a time when all the 'anti-Fascist' governments of Britain, France and the USA were happy to stand idly by (actively blockading Republican ports and arresting socialists and anarchists trying to get to the fight) even when the German and Italian troops, aircraft and heavy munitions rolled in.

I'm a bit surprised that you have allowed your personal enmity for Idris to cloud your judgement here Phil. I thought better of you.
 
I'm a bit surprised that you have allowed your personal enmity for Idris to cloud your judgement here Phil. I thought better of you.

There's no personal enmity at all on my part. Actually I'm slightly gobsmacked at the way he went off on me yesterday, it was totally unprovoked afaict. Maybe I slagged off one of his mates without knowing it?

At the end of the day, Ryan risked life and limb (wasn't he wounded at Jarama?) to fight Fascism in Spain - at a time when all the 'anti-Fascist' governments of Britain, France and the USA were happy to stand idly by (actively blockading Republican ports and arresting socialists and anarchists trying to get to the fight) even when the German and Italian troops, aircraft and heavy munitions rolled in.

He did some very good things, and he did some very bad things too. All-in-all he strikes me as a bit of a chancer, a loveable rogue, an adventurer, a man whose love of the craic over-rode his principles, not in fact unlike yer typical...... aaaargh I'm gonna get banned if I don't log off RIGHT NOW....
 
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